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post #121 of 145 Old 09-25-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

I am curious what the term "crushing blacks" means? I find it difficult to set picture levels to the point that they make very dark blacks without losing overall detail. I have the HD verison of the DVE disc but I must confess that I don't fully understand the grayscale ramps and pluge patterns, etc.

Crushing blacks means losing the darkest black details completely. You're essentially looking at the signal and 'crushing' it down so that blacks and dark greys are removed.

If a source device crushes blacks then increasing brightness cannot bring them back, it just makes absolute black turn into grey. They're simply lost forever.

gamma adjustment is something that some devices (like Moome's boxes) offer to allow you a little brightness boost of the darker areas *without* affecting the absolute black any lighter.

Here's a normal image:



Here's the same image with crushed blacks:



Kal
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post #122 of 145 Old 09-25-2007, 12:47 PM
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Kal,

Will the DVI/DVI repeater (so-called) have gamma correction? It seems we suddenly have three solutions: DVI/DVI repeater, HD-EXT and HD-Fury. All have different characteristics. My impression is that HD-FURY has no adjustability but a lot of praise heaped on it so far for avoiding black crush and HD-EXT has gamma adjust. So how do they all compare?

Thanks,

Barry
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post #123 of 145 Old 09-25-2007, 06:19 PM
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Kal, thanks for the explanation. Even though the second picture is crushing black I kind of prefer it because the colors look deeper. That's part of the problem is that I don't have an eye for what is correct to use as a reference. Using your examples I would need to make some big adjustments I believe. I will experiment with this over the next few days. If you don't mind, I might post a few screen shots to compare and get your opinion. I can start a new thread or put them in my XG thread so as not to take this one any more off topic than I have. Thanks again!
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post #124 of 145 Old 09-25-2007, 07:18 PM
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I agree that the first shot looks overblown. Don't look at the quality of the pictures however. They're only examples to show what black crush is. Black crush is bad!

Kal
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post #125 of 145 Old 09-25-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

I agree that the first shot looks overblown. Don't look at the quality of the pictures however. They're only examples to show what black crush is. Black crush is bad!

Kal

Yeah, I called my girlfriend in here a minute ago to look at the two bear pictures and she said she liked #2 better even if it was wrong!
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post #126 of 145 Old 09-26-2007, 10:02 AM
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Just an update in case anyone may have a use for sending HD signals over cat5.

IT WORKS!

My setup for the video signal is:

PS3 HDMI > 2MTR HDMI CABLE > HDMI female to DVI female connector > HDFury > VGA female to female connector > CAT5 VGA extender sender unit.

then through approx 30mtrs of CAT5 cable and:

CAT5 VGA extender receiver unit > connected to CRT computer monitor via VGA.


I know all that sounds very complicated but except for the HDFury and the VGA extender it's all pretty cheap connectors etc.

As for the Audio, I have my PS3 connected to my AV amp via optical cable and when I want to 'remote play' my PS3 upstairs I plug in the Sennheiser rs120 wireless headphone base unit into the amp.

I can then just switch on the PS3 which is normally connected to the TV via it's s-video input, change the output to HDMI and then confirm this using the controller, I then have my PS3's video signal on my monitor upstairs

This method may even work using Homeplugs instead of CAT5 cable, access to your PS3 on any VGA screen/monitor etc from anywhere in the house that has a mains socket!
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post #127 of 145 Old 09-26-2007, 01:12 PM
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So would THIS cable be good enough to run from my scaler to the Fury?

If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes. -Roy Batty
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post #128 of 145 Old 09-26-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuntDummy View Post

So would THIS cable be good enough to run from my scaler to the Fury?

That should work fine. I'm using the less expensive 28awg cable from Monoprice and it looks good.
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post #129 of 145 Old 09-27-2007, 04:22 AM
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Just like johnnie_walker, I can confirm that HD sent analog over cat5 cable works, at least with a 720p/60 signal. Setup like this: Tosh HD-E1 > HDMI cable w DVI adapter > HDFury > VGA gender exhange > Gefen sender box > 15m(!) Cat5 cable > Gefen receiver box > VGA/5 BNC breakout cable > NEC PG 6200 projector

Will add a Lumagen HDP to the "equation" soon, but have no doubt that it will work with the Lumagen also.

Very nice picture, can sincerely recommend the HDFury !
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post #130 of 145 Old 09-28-2007, 08:34 PM
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Kal,

I am having a problem with my HDFURY I got last week. I am running a DISH 722 receiver via HDMI to dvi cable plugged directly into the HDFURY and am using the short extension cable that came with it. Pioneer rear projection set.

The short cable makes no difference as I tried it without it. The hdmi to dvi cable is only 6 feet. The Dish sat states it sees the HDFURY but it states 720p AND 480I as the only resolution it can
display ( the HDFURY that is). Through the Fury the screen looks like I have the resolution set to say 720p which my TV does not support even though I have it correctly set to 1080i.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I waited and read a lot on info here and I believe I am in the miniority here with any problem.
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post #131 of 145 Old 09-28-2007, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

The HDFury does not have a cable driver/output stage so it cannot drive analog output (RGB) cables longer than 4-6".

You cannot use an input (DVI/HDMI) digital cable longer than 16' without also using an external power supply. The HDFury draws power from the HDMI/DVI cable. Cables longer than 16' may cause problems due to voltage drop. Solution is to use an external HDfury power supply (comes included in the HDfury Advanced Kit or can be bought separately).

Your setup will work fine. Your HDMI input cable is short, and your output analog cable is non-existance (very short) as you have it plugged directly into the RTC-2200 transcoder. The transcoder *does* have a cable driver so you can therefore use a longer output cable since the transcoder will be driving the cable, not the HDfury.

Kal


Kal, I'm not sure but I think I may need the power supply. The HD Fury works great with sources connected directly to the projector. However, running HDMI sources into my receiver and then HDMI out to the HD Fury and Kim's transcoder is not working. I see a very faint blue light inside the Fury but it's not fully lit like it should be. I get no picture and my receiver displays "no signal". I read about one user with a Fury and the same receiver I have. He solved this problem by putting an HDMI switch in line with the receiver.
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post #132 of 145 Old 09-28-2007, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Kai. You know that bear looks angry that his blacks are crushed.

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post #133 of 145 Old 09-29-2007, 09:43 AM
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Guys, your best bet to for answers to HDfury problems is to post in the HDfury forum where the manufacturer (and 100's of other HDfury users) read and post.

See: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32
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post #134 of 145 Old 11-30-2007, 10:11 AM
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I have a Pioneer Elite PRO710 rear projection tv. No hdmi input, it has both rgbhv and component inputs. will the hd fury work, I have a converter for rgbhv in to component out and can use it if needed.
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post #135 of 145 Old 11-30-2007, 12:21 PM
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I have a few Fury external boxes; the noise was the main problem I noticed. The noise caused the processor 907B chip to not resolve everything.

A lot of people recently have traded in there Fury devices for my internal DVI card so I have a bunch laying around in my shop for testing.

It’s a good device if you want cheap but the noise is heavy and fine detail is lost.

Mounting the Chip internal is a much better solution with heavy rail caps.

I have a card that is internal mount and I bypass all the old Port 3 amps completely and move the input stage on the switcher card up to 5GHZ removing the old 1GHZ amps.

People in the DC area can come over for a demo of our V7 card

Greg

Gregory C. Eisemann Senior Electrical Engineer, Satcom Engineer, Opnet Engineer, Network Engineering, Satellite Engineering
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post #136 of 145 Old 11-30-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann View Post

I have a few Fury external boxes; the noise was the main problem I noticed. The noise caused the processor 907B chip to not resolve everything.

A lot of people recently have traded in there Fury devices for my internal DVI card so I have a bunch laying around in my shop for testing.

It's a good device if you want cheap but the noise is heavy and fine detail is lost.

Mounting the Chip internal is a much better solution with heavy rail caps.

I have a card that is internal mount and I bypass all the old Port 3 amps completely and move the input stage on the switcher card up to 5GHZ removing the old 1GHZ amps.

People in the DC area can come over for a demo of our V7 card

Greg

well there is no way to put a card in a pioneer tv set, how much do you want one of the fury's
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post #137 of 145 Old 12-01-2007, 01:58 PM
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I can get them direct for $99.00

G

Gregory C. Eisemann Senior Electrical Engineer, Satcom Engineer, Opnet Engineer, Network Engineering, Satellite Engineering
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post #138 of 145 Old 12-02-2007, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Greg. You are advertising again. PM him the price for the Fury and delete your post. Really simple to be a good boy here.

The Fury BTW is just unacceptable to me compared to my Moome card in my Marquee 9500LC ultra. While it gets a little better with a wall wart external power supply, your observations about it are correct.

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post #139 of 145 Old 12-09-2007, 02:36 PM
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Guys,
has someone had problems with PLAYSTATION 3 via HDMI to HDFURY?
I vave connectyed the last versione of my PS3 to the Gefen switcher and the to the HDFURY. The ressult is no image.
Can someone help me?

Thanks

Vincenzo

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Otherwise you have lost an opportunity to keep silent
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post #140 of 145 Old 12-09-2007, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Crushing blacks means losing the darkest black details completely. You're essentially looking at the signal and 'crushing' it down so that blacks and dark greys are removed.

If a source device crushes blacks then increasing brightness cannot bring them back, it just makes absolute black turn into grey. They're simply lost forever.

gamma adjustment is something that some devices (like Moome's boxes) offer to allow you a little brightness boost of the darker areas *without* affecting the absolute black any lighter.

Here's a normal image:



Here's the same image with crushed blacks:



Kal


Accuracy is not always pretty!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!! Home theater systems, regardless of the type of display (CRT, DLP, LCD or plasma) are devices wired in series. If the signal source (DVD or satellite) does not output video to the standard required (below black to 100 IRE) then problems are introduced that cannot be fixed downstream. If there is no difference, voltage-wise, between total black and deep gray, then those parts of the image will appear the same, and detail (and accuracy in terms of what the director intended you to see) are lost. Same at the top; if you had a bright scene in snow in daylight and could not discern between 95 IRE and 100 IRE, then you might not see the footprints in snow, for example. Gain must be managed through the signal chain; you will not enjoy the best results if your projector wants 800 millivolts maximum RGB and the gain on your Extron adapter from your HTPC sends 900 mv; this will clip the input of the projector and peak whites and near peak whites will blur together.

--------------------
Tim at E-Tech ooo ehometech@earthlink.net ......your Marquee Pro Shop!
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post #141 of 145 Old 12-09-2007, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim in Phoenix View Post

Accuracy is not always pretty!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!! Home theater systems, regardless of the type of display (CRT, DLP, LCD or plasma) are devices wired in series. If the signal source (DVD or satellite) does not output video to the standard required (below black to 100 IRE) then problems are introduced that cannot be fixed downstream. If there is no difference, voltage-wise, between total black and deep gray, then those parts of the image will appear the same, and detail (and accuracy in terms of what the director intended you to see) are lost. Same at the top; if you had a bright scene in snow in daylight and could not discern between 95 IRE and 100 IRE, then you might not see the footprints in snow, for example. Gain must be managed through the signal chain; you will not enjoy the best results if your projector wants 800 millivolts maximum RGB and the gain on your Extron adapter from your HTPC sends 900 mv; this will clip the input of the projector and peak whites and near peak whites will blur together.

Well said Tim!
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post #142 of 145 Old 07-28-2009, 10:05 PM
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I just bought the HDfury2 and I was wondering about the power supply.

Will this one work (the center negative one)?
http://www.addonics.com/products/pow...5v_adapter.asp

It looks like the one that JVB digital is selling.
http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?cur...itle&title=621

Thanks in advance
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post #143 of 145 Old 07-31-2009, 05:56 AM
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I would suggest going with this power supply.

http://www.curtpalme.com/HDFury2.shtm

A beer and a 10' wide screen...What could be better?
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post #144 of 145 Old 04-29-2010, 02:00 PM
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Hello

I hope someone out there can help me, so far knowone has come accross my issue with the HD Fury Blue Edition,
I have recently purchased one of these however i get vertical jagged lines on my screen when i play games, PS1+2+3 and also my dvds, i have tried all resolution combinations on my ps3 and no luck.
Hoever, the XMB menu displays perfectly fine?????
Can anyone tell me does this sound like the HD fury having an issue or my monitor.
Just to help clarify, i get razor sawtooth looking edges with vertical lines displayed.
The monitor is the Cintiq 21UX and runs at a resolution of 1600x1200 UXGA 4:3 ratio.

Many thanks for any help you can give me.
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post #145 of 145 Old 04-29-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkingston View Post

Hello

I hope someone out there can help me, so far knowone has come accross my issue with the HD Fury Blue Edition,
I have recently purchased one of these however i get vertical jagged lines on my screen when i play games, PS1+2+3 and also my dvds, i have tried all resolution combinations on my ps3 and no luck.
Hoever, the XMB menu displays perfectly fine?????
Can anyone tell me does this sound like the HD fury having an issue or my monitor.
Just to help clarify, i get razor sawtooth looking edges with vertical lines displayed.
The monitor is the Cintiq 21UX and runs at a resolution of 1600x1200 UXGA 4:3 ratio.

Many thanks for any help you can give me.

Sounds like a resolution/monitor issue. The PS3 uses different resolutions for games/DVDs vs the menus and Blu-rays. See the Hdfury/PS3 setup guide here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14904

Kal
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