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post #31 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino AUS View Post

Cliffy, I agree with Art, you win hands down.

and Mike, I'd say your 8" is definitely up to the task, 1080p72... absolutely loving it!

But if you're asking whose is biggest? I think I'm ahead perhaps... 13' anyone?

Mike has been posting some really kick ass screenshots lately. I cant believe how good the colors are. Like I said before, considering that there has been no "official" calibration on that Marquee that I know of, his marquee sure does look spot on.

I hope he can find the time to set it up at the meet.

So, your penis is 13"????? So THATS why Jess loves you so much!

Cliffy
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post #32 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some from the Blue Ray forum that I like:







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post #33 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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A few more from the Blue Ray forum that kick ass:







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post #34 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd hit it!!!!!!!!!!



I love the colors in this one.
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post #35 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 07:50 AM
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Here's some:







I'd say I am still dialing in the PJs...I'll post some more within one month, once my MP Specials are in the PJs!

OOO CRT Blend powered OOO Blog
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post #36 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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That looks f'ing awesome big dog! I love the one with you standing in front of the screen.

Cliffy
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post #37 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Mine are rather weak compared to the big boys but here's a few...





How did I miss this one?

That is incredibly sharp. What projector????

Cliff
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post #38 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf View Post

Gary,

FYI, I have seen your screen shots in the past and now these and have always felt that your projector has a pretty strong red push? the way it is set up. NEC tend to do that if not set up properly.

Terry

It sure does! Perhaps even all color seem too hot.
Cliff what dcamera is this?

It is all about quality...that is the picture

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Custom dedicated 8 seat theater

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post #39 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post

Why???

No real reason... It's just a way to kick it..

Or put it another way, I like showing off my lowly 8500..

And I think Cliff is worse than I am, so we both live for these moments..

It's all about the performance... Got Marquee!

 

High Performance Marquee Video chain modifications.  Now available!

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post #40 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 09:54 AM
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Im again and again amazed at the screen caps posted in this forum.

Heres what my eyes are seeing comparing screen shots betwen digital and crt.

DLP has plenty of ANSI but lacks the ultimate on/off. Color can be thin compared to CRT.
LCos has superior on/off over DLP but its lacking ANSI. Color looks pastel or cartoon like at times.
Both show contouring issues and gamma issues more so then CRT.

CRT seams to have the best balance and the black level is captured and displayed very well in these screen shots.

A few questions:

1. Do you notice any additional contouring issues when going DVI/digital ( moome card ) into the projector.

2. Ringing my pet peeve. I would think "digital in" would improve this as well as some of the mods you guys are doing now. I have yet to see any of these fine projectors in action but these screen shots have me thinking im missing something and maybe I should grab a hot rodded crt to play with.
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post #41 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

How did I miss this one?

That is incredibly sharp. What projector????

Cliff

It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).
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post #42 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).

Ah, that's why I noticed the pixelization on the edge of the shirt beneath his chin and also on the ears or maybe just the camera? But still looks great.

This is an awesome thread!
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post #43 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:18 AM
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I just typed up a review of my observations of Cliff's G 90 double-stack. I know he's been wanting to see what I was gonna say -

Here it is -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was finally able to settle back here today and write a spell, having gotten home yesterday late from Midway airport, and have been chomping at the bit to report on Cliff's G90 stack, in more detail.

This system really has to be experienced to be believed. Gotta say, the screenshots Cliff has been putting up here in this section are amazing, but nothing can prepare you for the ultimate event of being immersed in it, in action.

He uses a 1 gain cloth screen, which is not only totally devoid of hotspotting, but is also completely acoustically transparent. No holes in this one, it's CLOTH! Complete acoustic transparency, and with the power of his double-stacking setup, effortlessly puts out the gain and the footlamberts. He showed me one pj on all white on his massive screen rather than both, and there was the light level I would expect on such a size - what on a regular sized screen would look like 80IRE gray. But when he kicked the other pj back on and both were showing again, the white was immediately dazzlingly white again, with effortless punch.


The darks were another thing, where I learned some new stuff about contrast ratio. Had not thought of this before.

CRT goes all the way down to complete black, even blacker than movie film.

So when you double-stack a pj sys, of course the whites are all doubled in light level, but aren't the blacks as well? They are on fixed pixel. We still have to conform to the medium the contant was shot in, and most content is still shot on film and transfered to HD. So you can't actually really clamp to black completely when showing something shot on film. You have to conform to the blackness of the film's blacks, or the gamma won't register right.

With the special gamma instrument Cliff has in his signal path, his blacks register accurately right down to the floor. There was an all black scene for a few seconds, and he says, "See that? You can't touch that with fixed pixel." And he's right. Not even close.

What I realized in that moment, of seeing a black that was actually darker than movie film, is that 2 times virtual zero is still virtually zero! Sure, double stacking doubles the whites very obviously, but it does NOT double the blacks noticeably at all. There's an expansion that happens with double stacking CRT tech that is unapproachable in fixed pixel bulb driven. The whites double obviously, whereas the blacks, since they are so dark anyway and thus have almost no light in them at all, double also - but so what? What is virtual zero times 2???

As a result, the contrast ratio on his double stack is phenomenally more than it would be on a single stack of the same pj. The actual contrast ratio effectively gets doubled.


We did several demos, and I was impressed with his system, to say the least. But I still had reservations, for some reason. We put up a nice, tight crosshatch pattern, and I saw the reservation - there had been some drift, and it was impinging on the picture.

We both together set about to redo the image positioning and zone convergence, which is where it had primarily drifted. He is a master of how to do this now that Ken has put everything in place originally, and in short order we had things back to where I thought they had been out of the starting gate. Cliff had just had too many things on his plate before I arrived, to do this especially for me, and I found that quite understandable.

Afterwards, we settled down and looked at some more stuff - Casino Royale especially - then I saw what I had been looking for. We were sitting so close to the screen that it surrounded us, much like the old Cinerama screens did, but I was still able to study the grain of the film used to shoot the movie.

When you are that close and you can do that, you've DEFINITELY got it dialed in!

The precision of everything else we watched that had been currently filmed - the John Wayne stuff, while impressive for that age, just didn't have the high precision of today's stuff - was mesmerizing. I just sat there and stared. I have never seen a screen that big that I could sit THAT close to and still have everything stay razor sharp.

His audio was something else. He put in Matrix II and played the scene where they were being invaded by the bots coming in thru the ceiling, and the sound pressure level was so intense that my hair was chattering, around my face! But no peaks of high bass that can otherwise ruin a high decible sound track. Nope, none of that here. Clean and sizzlingly equalized, so that it could be turned up incredibly high, with no problems at all, just like the 500 watt sound system I used to have in my Mazda RX2. Most people don't know how incredibly high sound pressure levels can get with no hearing damage at all, when the sound is accurately equalized. I used to install high end car stereos, so I know what's possible. Cliff has it nailed, and I don't even know if there is an equalizer in the equipment stack.

Before he opened up the Matrix chapter, I asked him if he was going to install butt kickers. He said, "Reserve that question to after this clip, then ask me that again." After that, there was no need to ask!


This is definitely the best set of HD images I have ever seen. It's the closest thing to ideal one could possibly imagine, it's just freakin' palpable!

My compliments to Ken, and to Cliff for all the little things in between the source and the pj, that also had to be taken care of one by one over the weeks and months - and the learning he had to do over the years - to get to this final result.

And my thanks for his very generous hospitality while I was in the Chicago area.

Check it out if you get the chance, it's worth the drive!



Mr Bob

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post #44 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

No real reason... It's just a way to kick it..

Or put it another way, I like showing off my lowly 8500..

And I think Cliff is worse than I am, so we both live for these moments..

Yes we do my friend.

BTW, your 8500 was only lowly until you got your hands on it. Now it's up there with the cream of the crop.

Cliffy
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post #45 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM View Post

It sure does! Perhaps even all color seem too hot.
Cliff what dcamera is this?

I have a Kodak Easy Share Z740. I also use a tripod.

I cant wait to take it to Art's for screenshots of his new killer setup!

Cliffy
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post #46 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Im again and again amazed at the screen caps posted in this forum.

Heres what my eyes are seeing comparing screen shots betwen digital and crt.

DLP has plenty of ANSI but lacks the ultimate on/off. Color can be thin compared to CRT.
LCos has superior on/off over DLP but its lacking ANSI. Color looks pastel or cartoon like at times.
Both show contouring issues and gamma issues more so then CRT.

CRT seams to have the best balance and the black level is captured and displayed very well in these screen shots.

A few questions:

1. Do you notice any additional contouring issues when going DVI/digital ( moome card ) into the projector.

2. Ringing my pet peeve. I would think "digital in" would improve this as well as some of the mods you guys are doing now. I have yet to see any of these fine projectors in action but these screen shots have me thinking im missing something and maybe I should grab a hot rodded crt to play with.



Um, I think we have just made history. Alan is thinking about going CRT again??????



:^)

Cliff
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post #47 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

It's the new el-cheapo 1080p DLP (Optoma HD80).

NOTHING in front projection can match the sharpness of DLP. I was absolutely FLOORED when I saw the HT5000 at Art's house. 1080P from DLP is smoking. It's still a bit pixleated for me as I'm a front row one screenwidth guy so I'm REALLY looking foward to when 4K DLP projectors come to market and are affordable for consumers.

When that happens, digital in home theater will reach it's pinnacle. Not to mention the RAPID advancement in on off contrast in the last couple of years.

Cliff
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post #48 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I just typed up a review of my observations of Cliff's G 90 double-stack. I know he's been wanting to see what I was gonna say -

Here it is -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was finally able to settle back here today and write a spell, having gotten home yesterday late from Midway airport, and have been chomping at the bit to report on Cliff's G90 stack, in more detail.

This system really has to be experienced to be believed. Gotta say, the screenshots Cliff has been putting up here in this section are amazing, but nothing can prepare you for the ultimate event of being immersed in it, in action.

He uses a 1 gain cloth screen, which is not only totally devoid of hotspotting, but is also completely acoustically transparent. No holes in this one, it's CLOTH! Complete acoustic transparency, and with the power of his double-stacking setup, effortlessly puts out the gain and the footlamberts. He showed me one pj on all white on his massive screen rather than both, and there was the light level I would expect on such a size - what on a regular sized screen would look like 80IRE gray. But when he kicked the other pj back on and both were showing again, the white was immediately dazzlingly white again, with effortless punch.


The darks were another thing, where I learned some new stuff about contrast ratio. Had not thought of this before.

CRT goes all the way down to complete black, even blacker than movie film.

So when you double-stack a pj sys, of course the whites are all doubled in light level, but aren't the blacks as well? They are on fixed pixel. We still have to conform to the medium the contant was shot in, and most content is still shot on film and transfered to HD. So you can't actually really clamp to black completely when showing something shot on film. You have to conform to the blackness of the film's blacks, or the gamma won't register right.

With the special gamma instrument Cliff has in his signal path, his blacks register accurately right down to the floor. There was an all black scene for a few seconds, and he says, "See that? You can't touch that with fixed pixel." And he's right. Not even close.

What I realized in that moment, of seeing a black that was actually darker than movie film, is that 2 times virtual zero is still virtually zero! Sure, double stacking doubles the whites very obviously, but it does NOT double the blacks noticeably at all. There's an expansion that happens with double stacking CRT tech that is unapproachable in fixed pixel bulb driven. The whites double obviously, whereas the blacks, since they are so dark anyway and thus have almost no light in them at all, double also - but so what? What is virtual zero times 2???

As a result, the contrast ratio on his double stack is phenomenally more than it would be on a single stack of the same pj. The actual contrast ratio effectively gets doubled.


We did several demos, and I was impressed with his system, to say the least. But I still had reservations, for some reason. We put up a nice, tight crosshatch pattern, and I saw the reservation - there had been some drift, and it was impinging on the picture.

We both together set about to redo the image positioning and zone convergence, which is where it had primarily drifted. He is a master of how to do this now that Ken has put everything in place originally, and in short order we had things back to where I thought they had been out of the starting gate. Cliff had just had too many things on his plate before I arrived, to do this especially for me, and I found that quite understandable.

Afterwards, we settled down and looked at some more stuff - Casino Royale especially - then I saw what I had been looking for. We were sitting so close to the screen that it surrounded us, much like the old Cinerama screens did, but I was still able to study the grain of the film used to shoot the movie.

When you are that close and you can do that, you've DEFINITELY got it dialed in!

The precision of everything else we watched that had been currently filmed - the John Wayne stuff, while impressive for that age, just didn't have the high precision of today's stuff - was mesmerizing. I just sat there and stared. I have never seen a screen that big that I could sit THAT close to and still have everything stay razor sharp.

His audio was something else. He put in Matrix II and played the scene where they were being invaded by the bots coming in thru the ceiling, and the sound pressure level was so intense that my hair was chattering, around my face! But no peaks of high bass that can otherwise ruin a high decible sound track. Nope, none of that here. Clean and sizzlingly equalized, so that it could be turned up incredibly high, with no problems at all, just like the 500 watt sound system I used to have in my Mazda RX2. Most people don't know how incredibly high sound pressure levels can get with no hearing damage at all, when the sound is accurately equalized. I used to install high end car stereos, so I know what's possible. Cliff has it nailed, and I don't even know if there is an equalizer in the equipment stack.

Before he opened up the Matrix chapter, I asked him if he was going to install butt kickers. He said, "Reserve that question to after this clip, then ask me that again." After that, there was no need to ask!


This is definitely the best set of HD images I have ever seen. It's the closest thing to ideal one could possibly imagine, it's just freakin' palpable!

My compliments to Ken, and to Cliff for all the little things in between the source and the pj, that also had to be taken care of one by one over the weeks and months - and the learning he had to do over the years, to get to this final result.

And my thanks for his very generous hospitality while I was in the Chicago area.

Check it out if you get the chance, it's worth the drive!



Mr Bob

Wow BOB! That is an awesome write up! Thanks so much!

I'm sorry I ended up so busy yesterday at work and couldn't help you more. It looks like you had a nice safe trip home. I hope you had a nice time and were comfortable!

Cliff
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post #49 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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post #50 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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post #51 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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post #52 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a couple of awesome screenshots for you guys:

Art's new screen:



Here is his old one he used for the Stack:



Damn that thing is HUGE!!!! Talk about a SCREENWALL!!!!!!!!

Cliffy
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post #53 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

Wow BOB! That is an awesome write up! Thanks so much!

I'm sorry I ended up so busy yesterday at work and couldn't help you more. It looks like you had a nice safe trip home. I hope you had a nice time and were comfortable!

Cliff


Absolutely! Next time I really have to see some of Chicago, tho. This trip was way too short!



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post #54 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

I have a Kodak Easy Share Z740. I also use a tripod.

I cant wait to take it to Art's for screenshots of his new killer setup!

Cliffy

Kodak..Your shots are incredibly rich and smooth. Good work there.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

Custom dedicated 8 seat theater

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post #55 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM View Post

Kodak..Your shots are incredibly rich and smooth. Good work there.


That's one of the things I like best about high echelon triple-gun CRT work - the end product has no dithering, no artifacts, no turbulence around the edges, full of true richness, no badly upconverted fillers to produce graininess and blotchiness -

I was at a Costco the other day observing their fixed pixel offerings, and the dithering, graininess and turbulence was thru the roof! Ecchh!


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post #56 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf View Post

Gary,

FYI, I have seen your screen shots in the past and now these and have always felt that your projector has a pretty strong red push? the way it is set up. NEC tend to do that if not set up properly.

Terry

yep I noticed that, pretty bad

I promise all camera related Terry

any of you DC junkies out there have any explanation for the red push? these are with the Panasonic TZ1

-Gary
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post #57 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

yep I noticed that, pretty bad

I promise all camera related Terry

any of you DC junkies out there have any explanation for the red push? these are with the Panasonic TZ1

-Gary

Glad to hear it isn't the setup Gary.....

Terry

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post #58 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 04:33 PM
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thanks Terry

-Gary
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post #59 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 04:48 PM
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My Canon point and shoot crushes black and it also adds saturation to the original as well.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

Custom dedicated 8 seat theater

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post #60 of 5478 Old 09-01-2007, 06:39 PM
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I'd post but what would be the point ... dam flash light ha

The Cinema Kellogg

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."
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