East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 514 Old 11-05-2007, 06:06 AM
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I came up with this idea to create something for those who are interested in Blending, but would not want to search over the different forums for various Info on how to do it. Hopefully we can create a single thread for the 8022 that could be a good source for what has been found so far to get the best image from a blend setup.

I've spent a many hours and days working on and around Williams blend system. And because my goal was always the absolute best image, I knew what I was seeing at some points along the way, was not good enough. So being an image tweaker. I pushed the ceiling further, and in doing so, we found some very interesting things.

I've sent out a few invitations to the next blend evaluation meet on the 17th of this month. At that time I'll go over somethings we've found to greatly improve on the overall performance of a blend setup. I plan to also show how to tweak the coils and magnetics, which is about 80% of the setup on a Marquee. Geometry, convergence, focus and even matching the two projectors together is not the best part of setting up Marquees. Those coils and magnets require as much attention as well. And that is why I'm not pleased with the setup I've done so far. It looks OK, and could pass as being fully done, but there's something else about it that would prevent it from being where it should be. And that's why I'm swapping out the astig boards, which may be fine for a single Marquee setup, but not for this setup.

Also, If doing a blend with Non-Ultra's. You're going to have to live with not having perfect geometry. Or you'll sacrifice perfect geometry for less "banding" We'll cover this as well.

And another important thing we'll go over is the color calibration. The Marquee is a different machine that in order to maintain it's full video IRE range before clipping, it's very important to start with the right G2 reference before doing the color calibration. And at the evaluation meet, we'll also show what happens when the reference is met. I'd just like to say for now, that we will NOT be using ANY gamma at all on the 17th. And I''ll explain we're not using it.

I will not be covering some things in the blend thread, because I'll not be able to spend a lot of time trying to convey these things on a forum. I would like to share what I've learned so far, and hopefully someone else would show up and do the same. And from there maybe that bit of collected info can be shared with others.

So we have a few items still in route, and they should be there before the 17th. And that is when we'll be looking at digital directly into the 8022. An HTPC will also be there, but as you know. I don't put HTPC's on the same shelf with the true video performers. Though good, I don't like the idea of anything being in the video chain that have or may have preadjusted levels that are not smpte (reference), or would not have the black and white levels at the required reference for the rest of the video chain. So it will be there, but not a part of what I'm doing.

I'm putting most of my eggs in the basket on the 17th, because I can't afford to devote too much time to this beyond that. I have too many other things going on, that must take priority from now on. And with so many experts out there on these things, my absence from the thread won't be missed s much.

It's all about the performance... Got Marquee!

 

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post #512 of 514 Old 11-05-2007, 03:21 PM
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I have been playing the my 9500 LC ultra in an effort to eliminate the banding I have been getting. I am extremely close to eliminating all signs of banding but I would like to wait a bit more before casting my findings in stone. Contrary to public and popular opnion, setting the geometry controls to 50 and not trouching them again is not the way to eliminate banding. Obviously when initially adjusting the geometric bow controls, one should continually check back to ensure banding hasn't been introduced. But if one leaves the controls at 50 and then attempts to obtain correct geometry via the other geometry controls and random green convergence, banding will undoubtedly result. But with the bows adjusted and then pin, skew key etc. The key from here is center lins being set in the vertical and horizontal screen centers (half way down the sides and half way accross. Size must be adjusted and side lins being careful not to introduce banding. If the lins cause banding, don't save, go back to your last save and try obtaining better centering with the the random green convergence but just using the center point up and down or side to side. The skew of the center lines may have to be readjusted and then the center lins and then the sides but sooner or later no banding. At some point you will have to adjust green random to get everything perfect but if everything else is correct, small adjustmebts will not cause problems. Every time you make a single change go back and check for banding. Small changes horizontally away from the side edges can cause banding, so check, check check. Its better to revisit the edge settings say one click up and then go back in one zone horizontally but perfection can be achieved. The trick is not setting the bows to 50, but using them as necessary but stopping before banding is introduced.

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post #513 of 514 Old 11-05-2007, 03:55 PM
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Mark,

I find this banding you get in your Ultra interesting. The three Ultras I have here show no signs of banding when set up properly.

I do know if another 2002 Ultra that shows signs of thin, evenly spaced horizontal lines that we have not been able to solve. It doesn't exactly look look banding (you can demonstrate what banding really looks like if you take and go into convergence for green only, go to a point and then press down w/ an all white screen). We cannot get rid of them even if we null out all convergence.

Is this what you are getting (the thin evenly spaced lines)??

Terry

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post #514 of 514 Old 11-05-2007, 05:01 PM
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No. Horizontal bands of say gray on a white back ground on on RGB back grounds. Usually there were two bands. And of course the answer is proper set up. One can up with a perfect green grid in many many ways. Most of which will cause banding. One can end up with a perfect green grid without bands. The issue is where to start and what path to follow. The traditional advice has been to stay away from the bow controls. But I find that setting the bows to 50 means too much correction with green convergence and consequent banding. So I dial in decent bow check for banding, then go on to the normal geometry adjustments, leaving the lins to last. Once the halfway points up and down and accross are marked with err stick on markers, then the horizontal and vertical center lines are placed with the center lins, cherck for banding, check for centering and size. Then s lins checking for banding. If ones works through this making sure skews are correct, size is correct and the image properly centered using the random green convergence if necessary for center lines centering, the s lins can be adjusted without banding. Save the mother and then obtain perfect grid but veery small green random adjustments. A few clicks adjusting horizontal in from the edges can causde banding quickly. Check each click of everything. Its like mountain climbing, go slowly. Go back and adjust an edge to avoid having to correct anything horizontal away from an edge.
I'm sorry. I can do it and I will perfect it but I hate having to fornicate with it. I'd rather just watch the games. Is it at least a littlebit satisfying? Yes, the games, no the adjustments. Too bad I just can't view it as fore play and then sex. Sorry. But the banding really bothers me. Yesterdays' viewing didn't have any. All 720p. The higher the band width the more the banding. Now I have to see if I can eliminate it at 1080p. Gotta get my VP back before I spend the 4 hours or so that I will need to set it up with nio banding at 1080p. Sorry honey. No whoopee tonight, I have to fornicate with my FP CRT tonight.

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