East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 514 Old 09-17-2007, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by damon View Post

Purely speculation on my part but I believe ,as I think William does ,that the 8022 will perform best when all processing is done in the digital realm. Digital in & digital out.

Of course it will!

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post #92 of 514 Old 09-20-2007, 08:47 AM
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Hi William,

I'd like to attend, my fiancee Cheryl may or may not make it, but my brother has expressed interest in coming as well. So I may have 1, or as many as three Looking forward to a great time!

Ben
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post #93 of 514 Old 09-21-2007, 07:42 PM
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I'll add quick update on what we'll be using for the resolution on the blends, because we have clearly decided on that. We will be running both 9500's at 1280x1024 @ 72hz After much thought and research, no doubt, it will be the best resolution.

That means that we'll be shooting two 9" gun 9500's on 6' wide screen surfaces (12' wide screen) right next to each other for the blend. I want to maintain the vertical resolution as close to 1080P as possible, so that where we settled on 1024P in Blendzilla. The horizontal rate we wanted it to be as
small as possible, so we decided against the 1400 with 1280 as being the best for this.

Last evening, I finished dialing in the focus on my lowly 8500 at 1920x1080P. My goal is to exceed as much as possible the sharpness I'm now getting from my 8500. With the 9500's having much better lenses and higher resolution CRT's, to include running at a lower resolution, that increase should be very possible.

The image from my 8500 is now amazingly sharp. And that's with stock focus yokes.

Blu-Ray 1920x1080P on my lowly 8500 Ultra - Moome - 80" wide screen





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post #94 of 514 Old 09-21-2007, 08:49 PM
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Hi all,

I plan to attend with my friend Zac. I came with my dad last time, but he's going to be away.

Does anyone know if Ken or Terry will be coming to the meet?

-Jeff
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post #95 of 514 Old 09-21-2007, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

Hi all,

I plan to attend with my friend Zac. I came with my dad last time, but he's going to be away.

Does anyone know if Ken or Terry will be coming to the meet?

-Jeff

Jeff,

You should really post this over in the thread on top in the sticky.
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post #96 of 514 Old 09-21-2007, 09:09 PM
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Jeff,

You should really post this over in the thread on top in the sticky.

Ummmm, I did? Cliff, have you been drinking?
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post #97 of 514 Old 09-22-2007, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

Ummmm, I did? Cliff, have you been drinking?


LOL, no Just having fun.

Cliffy
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post #98 of 514 Old 09-22-2007, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

LOL, no Just having fun.

Cliffy

lol okay...you scared me for a second though. I had to double check that I wasn't in the screenshot war thread with mike's amazing screenshots a few posts up . Still can't believe that's air coupled... no halos, no light spill (that I can see). Even in his U-571 shots, which are very prone to halos and light spill (ie black background with a street light), the contrast is great. Seems like I really need Ken or Terry down here.
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post #99 of 514 Old 09-22-2007, 12:44 PM
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Still undecided.....I should know in a week or so depending on some other things.

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post #100 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 06:42 AM
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We're getting closer to the day of the meet, and with that, it's time to make sure we have what's needed for the source devices. Because all final setups and calibrations are very dependent on the sources that will be used.

So far we've solved the digital link from the 8022 by using the Moome HDMI cards in the two Marquees. That would provide the digital link from the 8022 to the Marquees. now we'd like to have a digital link from the digital source (Bru-Ray/HD-DVD) to the 8022.

Not sure If a HDMI switcher would solve the HDMI problem from the source to the 8022, so we'll have to concentrate for now on the HK-FURY being used in the chain. That would not be my best choice, because it would put an analog link in the chain before the 8022. When our goal for this was a pure digital chain directly to the Marquees.

And for the best from the 8022, we hope to use 1080P into in the 8022. That resolution would use very little work from the processing guts of the 8022 for the best image.

Have anyone tried or tested a HDMI switcher (stripper) that would work from HDMI to DVI? I'm looking at this as a way around the HK-Fury being in the chain.

The projectors are already hung and waiting for the final setup/calibration that it would need once that final source device is in place, Then we can take things to the final level.

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post #101 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 09:21 AM
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Mike,

I'm just curious as to why your wanting to pass through HDCP on the 8022?

Looking at the back panel, wouldn't it be best to use a processor say like the VP50 for all of your sources, then go from the processor to say the moome external HDMI, then RGBHV into the 8022, then RGBHV to the projectors?



I only ask because as flaky as HDMI can be, introducing two HDCP "compliant" cards into the Video chain at the end in between the source which is HDCP and then the 8022 (not HDCP compliant) in the middle possibly causing issues?

Has anyone tried this?

Another possible combination would be the DVI output of the moome external into the DVI input on the 8022 as well.

Just so you know as well, having the VP50 in my video chain has solved 99.5% of all of the problems that people have had with moome's products. It's worked wonders for me.......

Cliff
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post #102 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

Mike,

I'm just curious as to why your wanting to pass through HDCP on the 8022?

My thought was to be able to connect the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player directly up to the 8022. We were thinking to use a stripper in between.


Quote:


Looking at the back panel, wouldn't it be best to use a processor say like the VP50 for all of your sources, then go from the processor to say the moome external HDMI, then RGBHV into the 8022, then RGBHV to the projectors?

Maybe so, but since we're getting close to the meet, I need to start dialing things in. And in order to do that, I'll need all source devices in place. A processor is not on the table at this time.


Quote:


I only ask because as flaky as HDMI can be, introducing two HDCP "compliant" cards into the Video chain at the end in between the source which is HDCP and then the 8022 (not HDCP compliant) in the middle possibly causing issues?

You're being of big help here, because i have no first hand experience with these issues.

Quote:


Has anyone tried this?

Yes, anybody?


Quote:


Another possible combination would be the DVI output of the moome external into the DVI input on the 8022 as well.

This was my intent. But it appears the new Moome external may not be available in time.


Quote:


Just so you know as well, having the VP50 in my video chain has solved 99.5% of all of the problems that people have had with moome's products. It's worked wonders for me.......

Cliff

WE were hoping that Mark would have his Radiance to try out. It went back to Lumagen, and may not be available in time for final setup at this point.

Thanks Cliff!

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post #103 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

My thought was to be able to connect the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player directly up to the 8022. We were thinking to use a stripper in between.




Maybe so, but since we're getting close to the meet, I need to start dialing things in. And in order to do that, I'll need all source devices in place. A processor is not on the table at this time.




You're being of big help here, because i have no first hand experience with these issues.



Yes, anybody?




This was my intent. But it appears the new Moome external may not be available in time.




WE were hoping that Mark would have his Radiance to try out. It went back to Lumagen, and may not be available in time for final setup at this point.

Thanks Cliff!

Well here is what I would do big dog. First of all, with you already having 2 moome boards, contact him and ask him to send you his test board that he uses for his internal cards. I bought the one he used on his ISS project and it allows me to run the card outside of the switcher. You plug your marquee card into the external board and it outputs RGBHV from there. I'm sure he has one and has designed one for every one of his projects. This way, you wouldn't have to wait or take a chance on the external box. If you could get a hold of him soon, I would imagine that he could get one too you some time next week.

Also, since I cannot help but recommend it, I would pick up a VP50 or a VP50 Pro. You dont have to, but I recommend it. It's a fantastic processor that has matured very well and works wonders with the moome cards.

Digital to the moome, analog to the 8022, analog to the projectors. I think that's the ticket, not to mention, it's doable before the meet.

Now, since I opened my big mouth last year, I will now shut it and wish you guys the BEST of luck in getting her set up and am really looking foward to coming out.

Cliffy
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post #104 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 03:02 PM
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Our goal is to try and stay digital all the way to the PJ.
No A/D or D/A

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post #105 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

Now, since I opened my big mouth last year, I will now shut it and wish you guys the BEST of luck in getting her set up and am really looking foward to coming out.

Cliffy

Now there you go again... I've told you several times that I personally did not have a problem with your suggestions at the meet. Nor did I have a problem with you wanting to try various sources. I knew a head of time that we were not prepared to present our best then, so we were open for suggestions. Plus, that meet was clearly explained to me that someone would be bringing a source to try out on the system.

Now with that being said, you did nothing wrong. If i could fault you for anything it would be you being so closed minded and thinking that nothing was as good as a G90. I only wish the setup was worthy to prove you wrong, but it wasn't. So I had to deal with one more gung ho G90 addict not seeing my work at it's best. And that made me feel funny.

Other than that, I give you very high marks for just putting the cards on the table at that meet. unlike the others, you told me exactly what you thought of the setup at the time. And that was one on one. so you're good with me, and you've been very helpful with your responses in this thread. So don't punk out on me now and go hide in a corner. Your input is also welcomed and appreciated here.

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post #106 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

Now there you go again... I've told you several times that I personally did not have a problem with your suggestions at the meet. Nor did I have a problem with you wanting to try various sources. I knew a head of time that we were not prepared to present our best then, so we were open for suggestions. Plus, that meet was clearly explained to me that someone would be bringing a source to try out on the system.

Now with that being said, you did nothing wrong. If i could fault you for anything it would be you being so closed minded and thinking that nothing was as good as a G90. I only wish the setup was worthy to prove you wrong, but it wasn't. So I had to deal with one more gung ho G90 addict not seeing my work at it's best. And that made me feel funny.

Other than that, I give you very high marks for just putting the cards on the table at that meet. unlike the others, you told me exactly what you thought of the setup at the time. And that was one on one. so you're good with me, and you've been very helpful with your responses in this thread. So don't punk out on me now and go hide in a corner. Your input is also welcomed and appreciated here.

Mike, I have a great deal of respect for you and your hard work. Your a great person and the time we've spent has been nothing short of awesome.

Remember a certain Nicole Kidman clip and both of our jaws laying on the floor not to long ago?

Hell, that was DVHS!

The bottom line is I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be an expert, but what works, well works.......

I wen't through hell in a hand basket trying to get the proper solution for my blendzilla meet and I know what your mods are capable of and want you to be able to exploit that to the max.

Did you know that the VP50 outputs both 24 and 48hz? Boy would that not be the bee's knees at 72hz from the 8022?

Hell, it also has blanking, and as well many other features that would be VERY useful for stand alone sources.

Hell, if I didn't have the VP30 for my meet, I would have been in a bad situation to be honest with you.

Not to mention, built in test patterns that would be key to setting up the blend and as well both RGBHV, component, SDI, and HDMI switching. You cant go wrong.

Both BD and HD have players out now that output 1080P/24 and I would not hesitate to exploit what these awesome players have to offer on a blended system like William's.

You've been here, you've seen it. You know.

As far as the G90 fanboy thing, well, yes, I cant help it.

But even the mighty G90 could use your magic touch to make it perfect so anyone who thinks that G90's dont need mods are sadly mistaken.

You have to give Sony credit though on that projector. It's the BEST out of box CRT next to the 909/Cine 9 ever made.

Hell, it ranks with the best period.

Cliff
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post #107 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 10:18 PM
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Met too many people at Williams last blend meet to remember who contributed the HD-DVD demo disc.

Would I be correct in assuming that these demo disc have no HDCP on them? If this is the case wouldn't they be a perfect for testing?

Mark Conner
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post #108 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

Met to many people at Williams last blend meet to remember who contributed the HD-DVD demo disc.

Would I be correct in assuming that these demo disc have no HDCP on them? If this is the case wouldn't they be a perfect for testing?

I believe it was Clarence.
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post #109 of 514 Old 09-24-2007, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

Met to many people at Williams last blend meet to remember who contributed the HD-DVD demo disc.

Would I be correct in assuming that these demo disc have no HDCP on them? If this is the case wouldn't they be a perfect for testing?

You would be correct, no HDCP, but these demo discs are made from 1080i mpeg2 transport streams from cable etc.. not true HD-DVD or BD material

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post #110 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 05:01 AM
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The bottom line is I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be an expert, but what works, well works.......

And since you're one of the pioneers to make this work with the 8022, it would be foolish to not hear from you on this. Hell, when it comes to doing something for the first time, no ones an expert. But that does give the edge to the more experienced.


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I wen't through hell in a hand basket trying to get the proper solution for my blendzilla meet and I know what your mods are capable of and want you to be able to exploit that to the max

I know, you really enjoy this hobby. And you're really not biased (though you're still a G90 fanboy). You'll give true props to anything or anybody that rightfully deserve it. You even speak highly of the digitals that have also done well. I have a ways to go on this one. I must admit, I have too much CRT bias in place still. And I must also say, that's not good or right.


Quote:


Did you know that the VP50 outputs both 24 and 48hz? Boy would that not be the bee's knees at 72hz from the 8022?

Hopefully they could make that happen, because that VP50 is AWESOME!!!


Quote:


Hell, if I didn't have the VP30 for my meet, I would have been in a bad situation to be honest with you

Yep, and that has been a lesson to us all, thanks to you. That image I saw at your house on that 10' wide screen cannot be reproduced in screenshots. One would have to see it for themselves. It's something that to this day stay with me, to have seen an image from a CRT setup that intense and in order. That was a job well done. And it took quite a few people and things to make happen. And that's the kind of hook-up I'm hoping for. And It can happen with your help.

This whole HDMI thing is new to me. hey you were that guy that kept saying HDMI is da bomb!

You were right!

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post #111 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 05:02 AM
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I don't get this anymore. I thought the intent was to have a second meet to see a fully operational and tweaked blend HT, not a limited demo of CT blend technology? Actually I'll look at it all as a great reunion, friends, food, drink, cigars. Maybe the spring blend meet will have a finished set up, but I doubt it.

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post #112 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 05:18 AM
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Maybe the spring blend meet will have a finished set up, but I doubt it.

What else would a pessimist say?

Btw, rather than being a backseat commentator on this next event, why not just stay home. That way the event would be a success regardless. After all, how can man predict the out come of anything. Our hopes is to do the best we can with WHAT WE HAVE, and if you can present of offer anything to help the situation. By all means do so. But if you or anyone else has the same negative intents at the next event. Don't bother to come out. And I meant that!

Get out of that glass house Mark...

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post #113 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 07:28 AM
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Mike. I am not picking on you and you know that. Cut it out. My point is that given the current state of the art, available support, processors, available external strippers, blue ray players, it is neigh impossible to view CT blend as anything other than an ongoing flexible hobbyist exercise. It is not at the state that anyone can say, please install me one of these things in a turn key nstallation in any foreseeable period of time. A Gino, a hands on bright energetic guys with apparently unlimited financial resources, can by devoting substantia hours maybe has done it. No one else that I know. A stack can be done, that's for sure. Art did it. Cliffy did it. Mark Conner is struggling and it has taken a long time. Total cost tyo him is staggering. And he opurchased his screen real cheap, second hand and bought his blender for a song on ebay.

A blend for most would be like chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. moreover, while you probbly can't get there, the pot doesn't really exist. This blend stuff is for technology demo, that's all. A foolish investment at this point in my opinion. But boys can spend on thheir toys and I certainly do. Whatever tuns one on. When processors and sources stabilize a bit, maybe it might be worthwhile but digital projectors are almost there and will be within a year. By the time eveything else stabilizes CTs will be even further obsolete. This stacking and blending gets you what, double the ft lamberts and with the right selection of gamma in the case of a stack, no loss of black detail over a single projector.

Nothing wrong with friends getting together with a great host to see a better demo of technology than last time. But what happens after the meet? Processors, switchers, calibrations, automation yada yada. Can and will this be done for the spring meet? I doubt it. Its very tough getting all the pesonnel needed to coordinate and have everything in place. Using CTs and blending, I think makes it next to impossible. Not your fault that its not there yet by any means.

I like my CRT and respect you for what you have done for it. A single 9 incher is fine. A stack is fine. A blend? Not in my book. Not now and probably not later.

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post #114 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 07:35 AM
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BTW. I as well as you state our minds. I don't get mad when someone calls it like they see it. They and I can be wrong. But discussion is good and we all learn and refine our views.

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post #115 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Mike. I am not picking on you and you know that. Cut it out. My point is that given the current state of the art, available support, processors, available external strippers, blue ray players, it is neigh impossible to view CT blend as anything other than an ongoing flexible hobbyist exercise. It is not at the state that anyone can say, please install me one of these things in a turn key nstallation in any foreseeable period of time. A Gino, a hands on bright energetic guys with apparently unlimited financial resources, can by devoting substantia hours maybe has done it. No one else that I know. A stack can be done, that's for sure. Art did it. Cliffy did it. Mark Conner is struggling and it has taken a long time. Total cost tyo him is staggering. And he opurchased his screen real cheap, second hand and bought his blender for a song on ebay.

A blend for most would be like chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. moreover, while you probbly can't get there, the pot doesn't really exist. This blend stuff is for technology demo, that's all. A foolish investment at this point in my opinion. But boys can spend on thheir toys and I certainly do. Whatever tuns one on. When processors and sources stabilize a bit, maybe it might be worthwhile but digital projectors are almost there and will be within a year. By the time eveything else stabilizes CTs will be even further obsolete. This stacking and blending gets you what, double the ft lamberts and with the right selection of gamma in the case of a stack, no loss of black detail over a single projector.

Nothing wrong with friends getting together with a great host to see a better demo of technology than last time. But what happens after the meet? Processors, switchers, calibrations, automation yada yada. Can and will this be done for the spring meet? I doubt it. Its very tough getting all the pesonnel needed to coordinate and have everything in place. Using CTs and blending, I think makes it next to impossible. Not your fault that its not there yet by any means.

I like my CRT and respect you for what you have done for it. A single 9 incher is fine. A stack is fine. A blend? Not in my book. Not now and probably not later.

Mark,

While I agree with part of what you say, I think you are missing the point of doing a blend. A 2.35 screen 12' or even larger cannot be done with any single CRT or even a stack......period. So if that is what you are trying to achieve, want to retain all the positive aspects of CRT without going a digital projector with lens for the 2.35, then blend is the only way to go.
That IMO is the only reason to do a blend. And it is very do able with todays technology.
Is it an out of the box system, of course not, It is very custom engineered and requires a lot of time and $$ to put together, especially if you aren't the kind or DIY'er that Gino or some of the other blenders are and you hire a pro to do it for you.

Terry

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post #116 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 12:53 PM
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Good points Terry.

But still. There are so many pieces needed. Strppers, Taiwanese cards, processors capable of doing something if only they could do it. It ain't for the faint hearted. And waits are forever sometimes. The end result. Maybe better than a big mother digital in a few ways but not in most. I can see the preservation of single CRTs (which without the great MP in my neighborhood I would have long been out of it) or stacks but blends while dooable why do it?

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Mr. Kossman is in fine spirits. He will be at Art's this weekend at Art's meet. I will be loaning him a Radiance for the month of October. I gather the Sony blue ray game machine will be going thru that if I understand him correctly. He plans on having four different sources only one of which will go through the processor. The others will go straight to the Blendzilla. Every meet needs some good, some bad, and some ugly. Fortunately or unfortunately, when I attend one gets all three in one body. Not too much bad I hope but lots of the other two.

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post #118 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Mr. Kossman is in fine spirits. He will be at Art's this weekend at Art's meet. I will be loaning him a Radiance for the month of October. I gather the Sony blue ray game machine will be going thru that if I understand him correctly. He plans on having four different sources only one of which will go through the processor. The others will go straight to the Blendzilla.



Or maybe I should calm down first... Maybe he has a second system to use that Radiance on. As far as the setup and system that I'm doing in Middleburg. If it's not a VP50, it's not going to be a part of that setup.

It's easy to set back and direct a choir when you have neither the talent to sing, or the time to devote to the rehearsals.

A lot of time has already went into putting this system together. We've spent many hours on the phone and via emails and PM's comparing different things that others have also tried. This may not have been posted here on the forum, but this has already been a labor to get to the best sources and ways to connect this system together.

With that being said, in no way will we be bringing In a processor that first, no one has any real experience with. Second, it has not been used and confirmed for this application. We tried this at the last meet with a loaner processor, and found that it had a color space issue. So anything that has not already been though the hoop, is not going to be a part of this system. At least while I'm involved for this coming meet. So I'm not sure where these Ideas are coming from, I'm under a whole different understanding on this..

So once again. try and understand that we are NOT going to be needing that Radiance.

I think with the help of Terry, Cliff and a few others, we already know which way we'll be going with this.

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WTF. He asked me if he could borrow it for the meet. I asked him how he was going to use it. He told me. I said fine with me. I really don't care whether he uses it or not. He plans on picking it up on Monday. Somehow he thinks he will have four different sources set up before the meet.

Don't lecture me or tell me to get anything straight. I am neither the client nor the host. I am not employed here nor am I the one paying you.. I am not conducting any choir. I am just the loaner of a piece of equipment the host requested for the meet and was merely reporting what he told me. I am not the one who needs to get anything straight.

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post #120 of 514 Old 09-26-2007, 07:12 PM
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WTF. He asked me if he could borrow it for the meet. I asked him how he was going to use it. He told me. I said fine with me. I really don't care whether he uses it or not. He plans on picking it up on Monday. Somehow he thinks he will have four different sources set up before the meet.

Don't lecture me or tell me to get anything straight. I am neither the client nor the host. I am not employed here nor am I the one paying you.. I am not conducting any choir. I am just the loaner of a piece of equipment the host requested for the meet and was merely reporting what he told me. I am not the one who needs to get anything straight.

I had a phone conversation with you yesterday on this. In that conversation, I told you we were not going to be using that Radiance. I had explained to you why. And if William had requested it, he may not have been clear as to why we're not going to be using it. So it was not a good idea to post about something that you were not sure was going to happen. it's not like you were not aware of what's going on. I clearly made you aware yesterday. What you're dealing with is what William may want to happen, but since we don't plan to put ourselves in the same situation that happened last time, we're not going to be implementing a device that we're not sure of.

So there are times if one wants to direct the choir, they should at least know the song that they'll be singing.

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