East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

There were bowls of water and then later in the demonstration there were ice cubes added to the bowls

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Another demo was done using pebbles in small pill bottles placed in the rear corners of the room

Say what you want Mark, but this just plain whacky.

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post #182 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 08:02 AM
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I know William is an HTPC guy, is that going to be the 72hz source?

Mark Conner
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post #183 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 08:35 AM
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I know William is an HTPC guy, is that going to be the 72hz source?

The 8022 will be doing the 72hz. And it'll be doing it from any source regardless of the input resolution.

HTPC will be a part of Williams system, but not necessarily a part of the meet.

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post #184 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 09:42 AM
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Speak right up Art. If you have something to say, say it.

Not much to say about that Mark except that I'm a scientist. Therefore it's not my job to disprove such claims it's your job to prove them. Science has done an incredible job in last couple of hundred years to explain our world extraordinarily well so I'm going with it.

I think my sitting here being skeptical of claims like the one you made is healthy. I know me holding a half empty wine glass in my hand sitting in my theater the music sounds so much better but ,as one of my mentors would say, when hearing hoof beats look first for horses then zebras. Your experience sounds like a very, very strong placebo effect to me, nothing more.

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post #185 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Not much to say about that Mark except that I'm a scientist. Therefore it's not my job to disprove such claims it's your job to prove them. Science has done an incredible job in last couple of hundred years to explain our world extraordinarily well so I'm going with it.

I think my sitting here being skeptical of claims like the one you made is healthy. I know me holding a half empty wine glass in my hand sitting in my theater the music sounds so much better but ,as one of my mentors would say, when hearing hoof beats look first for horses then zebras. Your experience sounds like a very, very strong placebo effect to me, nothing more.

Art

You better duck for cover Art. I'm still picking the buckshot out of my arse after poking fun at Mark's pebble story. If I had known he was really serious I would not have joked about it.


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post #186 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 10:56 AM
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Sorry, it was a failed attempt at humor I suppose. Crawling back under my rock now...

You mean your pebbles?

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post #187 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 10:58 AM
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You mean your pebbles?

Exactly!


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post #188 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 11:35 AM
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I was the observer. None of you were there butyou are all quick to say it can't be. I am an engineer and my degree was in science. I have absolutely no financial interest in these tweaks, I heard them. Repeated several times, So laugh all you want. But I am a very qualified listener. Audio is my business. If you have a decent two channel system you could try the three bowls of water, with and without ice for yourself. But better to just post your idiocy. All of you. Ignorance is bliss.

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post #189 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 12:04 PM
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Mark,

We aren't really denying that there was a difference... we're more being sceptical. Let's step back for a second and think about this. Saying that small bowls with water and/or ice affect sound quality in a room is like saying moving a 2 pound weight in a car from the front to the back noticeably affects handling (the differences are minute in both cases). Scientifically speaking, there will be changes in both instances that can be picked up by instruments - the bowls will change how the sound travels around the room, and the 2 pound weight in the car will change the car's center of gravity. We're merely doubting whether you're sensitive enough to be able to detect such differences, and if you are, you must have amazing ears. Regardless, in my opinion, audio is more complicated and harder to compare than video, which is why double blind tests are needed. Minute changes in the listening environment and/or audio setup will change the sound - the only thing is if the changes are detectable by human ears.

Anyways, back to poking fun at Mark .
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post #190 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I was the observer. None of you were there butyou are all quick to say it can't be. I am an engineer and my degree was in science. I have absolutely no financial interest in these tweaks, I heard them. Repeated several times, So laugh all you want. But I am a very qualified listener. Audio is my business. If you have a decent two channel system you could try the three bowls of water, with and without ice for yourself. But better to just post your idiocy. All of you. Ignorance is bliss.

Hey, I never called your qualifications or knowledge of anything into question as you did with me, calling me an idiot, bigot, ignorant, etc. I just thought the story was funny. Seriously, lighten up. If audio is your business as you say then you would do well to understand that being defensive about your product is a big turn off to potential customers. Of course, that is why scientists do science and salesmen sell. I have seen engineers trying to sell a product and it's not pretty.


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post #191 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I was the observer. None of you were there butyou are all quick to say it can't be. I am an engineer and my degree was in science. I have absolutely no financial interest in these tweaks, I heard them. Repeated several times, So laugh all you want. But I am a very qualified listener. Audio is my business. If you have a decent two channel system you could try the three bowls of water, with and without ice for yourself. But better to just post your idiocy. All of you. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm not laughing,but I am expressing my opinion just as you have. I'm not saying what you experienced wasn't real just that ,based on the laws of physics ,it's much more likely to be due to a placebo effect that was strong enough under the circumstances. Placebo is real , like the immediate healing effect experienced by just being at the doctor that I've personally experienced many time, but it can't be explained by actual physical changes which would have required the most basic laws of physics to be wrong but instead by a very effective power of suggestion.


Art


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post #192 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 01:45 PM
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What size bowls did they use ? I'm going to try it now!

But i must say when sitting in my jaccuzzi tub listening to my in wall speakers in the master bath it does sound great....but i always attributed it to me being realaxed and enjoying the soak.

Ps. it sounded great when the jaccuzzi jets were off.
Athanasios


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Love this CRT addiction !!!


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post #193 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 01:55 PM
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??? Art. I was at a manufacturers house. a friend who lived near me. We were sitting listening to his speakers (he didn't make them but they were made by some OEM company in China. I asked him what was the bowl of water sitting in front of and between the speakers. That started it off with three bowls were better than one and then watch what happens when you add ice. I suggested that I go blind. I got blind folded. He would walk around removing or bring back the bowls, with or without ice. After each listen, I would observe what the bowl situation was when I was listening. I would tell him what the effects I was hearing. He would write it down for me since I was blindfolded. I could identify repeat4edly the effects and their aassociation to the bowl changes. 12 out of 12. Then we did it removing or addding the pill bottles of peoples from the rear corners of the froom. He would go basxck into the corners while I was blind folded and either leave the bottles or remove them or bring them back. I would identify the sound changes (here limited to the bass). 10 out of 10 here, dramatic.

No placebo. No suggestions. I couldn't tell when he went behind me whether he left, brought, or removed the two tiny bottles. After each listen. I would observe the bottle status.

I don't think any of this was a pl;acebo. Ah. When you awaken from your sleep you will remember great sex. Ya right.

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post #194 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 02:41 PM
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Small chili bowls. I wonder who is going to win the chili bowl this year? I think Michigan is going to be playing in it.

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post #195 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 02:54 PM
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Small chili bowls. I wonder who is going to win the chili bowl this year? I think Michigan is going to be playing in it.

Aahhh; speaking of chili, thats going to be one of the food items for this meet. But, no beans!!! (the ht is too small for a bunch of folks that just ate beans to be sitting around in ....)

wallace

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post #196 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 03:03 PM
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Aahhh; speaking of chili, thats going to be one of the food items for this meet. But, no beans!!! (the ht is too small for a bunch of folks that just ate beans to be sitting around in ....)

wallace

Are you kidding me? Chili is NOT chili unless it has BOTH red kidney beans and chili beans.

YOUR GROUNDED!

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post #197 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Small chili bowls. I wonder who is going to win the chili bowl this year? I think Michigan is going to be playing in it.

Harsh,harsh !

Art


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post #198 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

??? Art. I was at a manufacturers house. a friend who lived near me. We were sitting listening to his speakers (he didn't make them but they were made by some OEM company in China. I asked him what was the bowl of water sitting in front of and between the speakers. That started it off with three bowls were better than one and then watch what happens when you add ice. I suggested that I go blind. I got blind folded. He would walk around removing or bring back the bowls, with or without ice. After each listen, I would observe what the bowl situation was when I was listening. I would tell him what the effects I was hearing. He would write it down for me since I was blindfolded. I could identify repeat4edly the effects and their aassociation to the bowl changes. 12 out of 12. Then we did it removing or addding the pill bottles of peoples from the rear corners of the froom. He would go basxck into the corners while I was blind folded and either leave the bottles or remove them or bring them back. I would identify the sound changes (here limited to the bass). 10 out of 10 here, dramatic.

No placebo. No suggestions. I couldn't tell when he went behind me whether he left, brought, or removed the two tiny bottles. After each listen. I would observe the bottle status.

I don't think any of this was a pl;acebo. Ah. When you awaken from your sleep you will remember great sex. Ya right.

Is thus Feng Shui ?

Art


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post #199 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 04:44 PM
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What size bowls did they use ? I'm going to try it now!

you're kidding right??

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post #200 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 05:11 PM
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If someone tries it and finds it makes an improvement, MP's belief system would be shaken. He is fragile enough without any additional stress from us. Maybe we shouldn't disturb MP's psyche until he finishes the work needed for the meet next Saturday.

Cliffy. Chili does and should not contain beans. When beans are used to cut the meat and the costs of preparation, the product is labeled Chili WITH BEANS. Usually in that case it would be better labeled BEANS with chili. Perhaps I will have my wife cook up some beans for you and you can add them to the Chili and thus you can have your Beans with Chili.

Cliffy is so simple. A 5Bs kind of guy. Beer, bullets, beans, and broads. And the 5th B? Look at them BLACKS.

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post #201 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

If someone tries it and finds it makes an improvement, MP's belief system would be shaken

Don't worry Mark. The odds of there being one more person on earth that could possibly experience some change in a sound system, from simply placing bowls, pebbles and pill bottles on the floor would have the same odds of happening as it would with hitting a billion dollar lottery.

That would make you unique..

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post #202 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 05:32 PM
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Why doesn't someone check & see if JVB will offer up a sample HD-SDI outputting
HD-DVD or Blu Ray player for this event? Just in case Moome does not save the day.

Mark Conner
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post #203 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 05:35 PM
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That would make you unique..[/quote]

Oh, I would definitely say he is unique.


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post #204 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
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Why doesn't someone check & see if JVB will offer up a sample HD-SDI outputting
HD-DVD or Blu Ray player for this event? Just in case Moome does not save the day.

Moome doesn't need to save the day.

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post #205 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 05:48 PM
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I can learn all I need to know about water & pebbles in front of speakers by perusing the Blend meet thread & not a damn thing about anything pertinent to the event. Exasperating!!

How is the chain going to be all digital & when did AWay provide the ability for the 8022 to do 72hz. For the rest of this BS I would just assume go watch the E-channel.

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post #206 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 06:06 PM
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The 8022 outputs 1050P@72hz and 1024P@72hz. Always has.

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post #207 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post


Cliffy. Chili does and should not contain beans. When beans are used to cut the meat and the costs of preparation, the product is labeled Chili WITH BEANS. Usually in that case it would be better labeled BEANS with chili. Perhaps I will have my wife cook up some beans for you and you can add them to the Chili and thus you can have your Beans with Chili.

Cliffy is so simple. A 5Bs kind of guy. Beer, bullets, beans, and broads. And the 5th B? Look at them BLACKS.

LOL. Tell your wife to hook me up with the beans then.

As far as the 5B's, perfect analogy!

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post #208 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 06:17 PM
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Mark. Cut it out. There will be a great of picture from two CRT projectors blended in the center. What source and how it got there is not important. It will be brighter than from a single CRT but not as bright as from dmmest bulb projector. We will all say look at them blacks. Digital can't do that. There will be excuses why everthing that needed to get done didn't get done and we will all look forward to the spring meet to see the finished product and an even better picture. BTW We will all have a geat time.

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post #209 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Chili does and should not contain beans. When beans are used to cut the meat and the costs of preparation, the product is labeled Chili WITH BEANS.

AMEN Mark!
Beans beans, good for your heart; the more you eat, the more you fart.

Quote:


Cliffy is so simple. A 5Bs kind of guy. Beer, bullets, beans, and broads. And the 5th B? Look at them BLACKS.

Nothing wrong with them B's, but I might want to switch boobs for beans.

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How is the chain going to be all digital & when did AWay provide the ability for the 8022 to do 72hz.

MP or William, your up.

wallace

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post #210 of 514 Old 10-10-2007, 06:57 PM
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Actually he's also an ass man.

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