Which crt projector to choose??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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hey everybody

Im new to the crt community, Im 17 years old and my room is pretty small; only 4.15metres (13feet) long and 3m wide (4.2feet),

Ive had 3 digital projectors prior to getting this idea and each time Ive been very unhappy with the black level, I just cant help but look for the blackest spot on the screen and compare it to the black bars and theyve all had pretty crappy throw ratios only giving me a 60inch picture,

my original plan was to trade the crappy digital projector that I had against a crt and I looked at curtpalme.com's requirements and started contacting people on a local swedish advert site and I got two peoples interested, both professionally dealing with these projectors within an hour drive

only one however, told me that he had a spare ceiling mount.

one of the guys is the owner of cinemagine.com and he offered me to trade it in for one of the following:

NEC GP3000 didnt ask for info

Barco 700 with very little wear, didnt ask about time on chassis

barco 800 with very little wear, 25 000 hour chassis

I called him a friday morning asking if he had any projectors calibrated that I could look at and he said he had a Barco 800 so
I went to his home cinema place where I saw the barco 800 and
it was MASSIVE, I'd thought it was half the size so I was really chocked and I was also chocked by the quality of the image...
and it had 25 000hours on its chassis!!!, focus mustve sucked!

I thought getting a crt projector was out of the question until he showed me some of the smaller units.


Anyhow, now 1 month later Ive painted my room, with a really dark blue color on the walls and light gray on the ceiling,
and I've contacted the other guy whose offered me a color filtrated ecp 2100 with "roughly" 6000hours on chassis (perhaps serviced by runco?), OR a Marquee 8500 (non liquid coupled) if I add an additional sum equivalent to 500usd,

The question is wether I should take the ecp 2100 wih no wear and color filtrated tubes that might have been serviced by runco and hence might be able to take greater resolutions with 6000hours on chassis (electrostatic)
or add 500usd for the marquee 8500 (with slight wear) and 4500hours, what do you guys think? (in any case I will also recieve a ceiling mount)

Or contact the other guy and trade the digital against the NEC GP 3000 or the barco 700.

I can also wait another month and get myself a barco 701s, but Ive heard that most crts are basically the same when it comes to performance, someone wrote that "you could throw a virtual blanket over the 20 top projectors on curt palmes list"
Is that true? in any case I think Ill be statisfied with whatever projector I choose due to the immense difference between a digital and a crt projector..

I might also be able to trade in some computer stuff instead of the 500usd since he seems intrested in trading things..


Best regards and eagerly awaiting your response!
Axel L
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post #2 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 03:50 AM
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First guy you contacted was probably deceased Mrking (Conny).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900430

For dvd's you would be happy with almost any 7" or 8" ES focus "digi-chassis" projector. 720p and 1080i look little soft with these units.

For HD sources you should seriusly consider 8" EM focus unit (like that M8500) or higher.
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post #3 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 04:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Shocked!

I just read the thread, cant believe I just visited him last month! Rest in peace Conny,
he seemed like a great guy, it seemed as if he was more interested of letting me into the crt community than about my digital projector..
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post #4 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh I'm going to use the projector for video gaming(xbox 360) and htpc, no dvds..
thnx for your reply btw
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post #5 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey, I see 32 views and only one answer? common u guys..
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post #6 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 06:23 AM
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I wouldn't consider the GP3000 if that helps. Doug
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post #7 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Baisey View Post

I wouldn't consider the GP3000 if that helps. Doug

Why not?
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post #8 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 06:31 AM
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There is a chip in the power supply that is no longer available and no replacement for it. Its a known weakness on that model. Doug
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post #9 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 06:45 AM
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Axel,

You probably haven't received any replies since your suggestions are a bit all over the place. You talk about projectors from a NEC GP3000 all the way up to a Marquee 8500.

A lot of your questions are very basic so before you dive in and buy something, I'd suggest you read Curt's primer: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer.shtm

Kal
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post #10 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Axel,

You probably haven't received any replies since your suggestions are a bit all over the place. You talk about projectors from a NEC GP3000 all the way up to a Marquee 8500.

A lot of your questions are very basic so before you dive in and buy something, I'd suggest you read Curt's primer: http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer.shtm

Kal

yeah I can see that I've already read the primer,

Heres a clarfication:
I have the choice either to opt for a electrohome ecp 2100 with color filtrated tubes and 6000hours on chassis, and No wear whatsoever
(I suspect it might have been serviced by Runco)

Or a Marquee 8500 non lc with wear and 4500h on chassis if I add an additional 500usd (3000kr)


I also Had the option to go for a GP 3000 or a Barco 700 (since the 800 was way too big for me)
But the guy who offered me those bargains died last thursday in a car crash, I dont know if those are availible anymore and I dont feel like calling his associates since it happened so recently and since my deal included trading my digital against one of those crts..(no money in-between)

The question is which one of those 2 crt projectors I should choose?
Are newer crt projectors that much different from old ones? please post some screenshots of their respective images..

Any experiences with the ecp 2100?, tell me all about them!

I would also like to know if someone (curt perhaps?) have seen color filtrated ecp 2100 and wether theres really a huge difference with color filtration, and if youve seen any ecp 2100 serviced by Runco?
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post #11 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Baisey View Post

There is a chip in the power supply that is no longer available and no replacement for it. Its a known weakness on that model. Doug

Ok, well which should I choose, the exp 2100 w color filtration and no wear or the marquee 8500 with wear?
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post #12 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 07:28 AM
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The ECP 2100 is a pretty low end machine.

The M8500 is a pretty high end machine. Completely different league.

Frankly, unless the price is soo good (or free), I wouldn't consider an ES focusing machine these days.

Whether the 8500 is a good choice depends on what TYPE of wear you're talking about here. See this chart: http://www.curtpalme.com/TubeCondition_RatingChart.shtm

For more information on colour filtering, what it does, why you may want it, see:

http://www.curtpalme.com/Tinting_Glycol1.shtm
http://www.curtpalme.com/Marquee_HD144_install.shtm
http://www.curtpalme.com/Changing_C_...ts_Barco6.shtm

Kal
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post #13 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 07:44 AM
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I'm specific to NEC only. I wasnt sure if you read the primer first because it had the reference to the GP3000 power supply in it already.

In general if your getting a projector with worn tubes you will have to set up and use within the existing used phosphor area or it could show.

It would be very hard to match screen shots to a projector you havent seen so your best bet is to have the seller / trader take the screen shots for you of what they are capable of displaying. Dont know the specs on the 2100 but you might take a look at that at Curts site. Also consider parts avail, mount and remote, people that are close to you in case you need help. Shipping. Doug

I looked, the max resolution on the 2100 is 540P. 30mhz bandwidth. Pretty low end. If the used phosphor is not bad then consider the 8500.
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post #14 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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DARN

the ecp 2100 is SOLD already, he told me he would send me a list of projectors tommorow..

The problem is I sound like a complete P#!!"y on the phone..

He did seem like a nice guy but he seems pretty greedy, Ive offered him my modded xbox along with the digital projector and a motherboard+ sum money

So its up to you guys to tell me if hes trying to rip me off, Im supposed to go there this weekend and buy one.

Thnx for all of youre replies,

I would like to know how much wear is acceptable?, cause I think curt explained it really badly, hes showing pics of supposedly acceptable wears, that have a big orange tint all over the screen... I really wouldn't want that...
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post #15 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 11:19 AM
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Axel,

You seem to be anxious to purchase but at the same time tell us that you know little to nothing about CRT projectors.

I *HIGHLY* suggest you hold off purchasing for a few weeks and just spend a little bit of time each day reading/learning on the forum here and on Curt's site. You'll end up making a smarter decision that better suits your needs as nobody else here can tell you want to buy as nobody knows what your expectations are.

Better yet, go see others with CRT projectors. Don't know any? Post asking if there are any in "XYZ" location (whereever you're from) and you'd be surprised how many pop out of the woodwork.

Slow down. Take your time.

CRT's take a lot of work to set up (as compared to digitals). So don't rush into this. You're not going to watching movies tomorrow, even if you buy one today.

Kal

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post #16 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Axel,

You seem to be anxious to purchase but at the same time tell us that you know little to nothing about CRT projectors.

I *HIGHLY* suggest you hold off purchasing for a few weeks and just spend a little bit of time each day reading/learning on the forum here and on Curt's site. You'll end up making a smarter decision that better suits your needs as nobody else here can tell you want to buy as nobody knows what your expectations are.

Better yet, go see others with CRT projectors. Don't know any? Post asking if there are any in "XYZ" location (whereever you're from) and you'd be surprised how many pop out of the woodwork.

Slow down. Take your time.

CRT's take a lot of work to set up (as compared to digitals). So don't rush into this. You're not going to watching movies tomorrow, even if you buy one today.

Kal

Kal


I know that much
The guy I've talked to is willing to set it up to be used for the screen size I want (100 inch)

however, yes I'm anxious and I want one now!,
but I know more about crts than it seems, its just that I find some sections in the primer to be a little weird, such as the stuff about wearing.. I mean ALL of those tubes seem unusable..

Ive even read about centering raster and such, and Im gonna calibrate that machine for hours on end, enjoying it!

And btw This is the only guy who is willing to do a trade-in with me and since the other guy died hes the only dealer in the entire country of Sweden so I dont have any other option...unless I would go for an analoge machine..

Are analoge machines unconsiderable? I mean I could get a barco 600 for 150bucks If I'd want...but that seems like alot of work

The projector rankings also seem very subjective, and people on other forums have told me that "you could throw a virtual blanket over the first top 20 for they are all the same" (w image quality) and I mean If I were to believe that,
than it doesnt matter if its a Barco 800 scanning at 72hz or an old ecp scanning at 30...

Keep in mind also that I'm switching from digital (lcd) so I'm probably not gonna see any flaws in the crt I choose until months later..I mean that Barco Data 800 with 25 000 hours on its chassis showed a stunning image and the focus must've really been worn out
(the blue tube had been the only tube that had been switched)

Anyhow, Ill post the list hes sending me tommorow and youll make your pick, I might make another thread with a poll

Thnx for paying attention to a rookie like myself
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post #17 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 11:47 AM
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I totally agree with Kal !
If you would have ran out and bought the 2100 you would have a hard time using it for HD material. Im not sure if it would have ran 1080I at 33 kHz but it wouldnt run 720P at 45 kHz so you would have had to run 480P at 31.5 kHz.

I dont know the EPC2100 so Im not sure what it will or will not do past its specs. Doug

Remember if you have component out on the sources most of the projectors will need a transcoder to convert component to RGB so another $200 avg expense. This needs more thought. CRT is analog.

Specs:
kHz is the horiz freq spec that a projector can run at.
Hz is the vertical freq refresh that a projector can run at.
mhz is the bandwidth capabilities of the projector. (the only one you can push) 'sometimes' without degrading the image to a point of a smear.

Last all CRT projectors are female. If you want to 'tweak' them for hours you will usually get faced with a attitude that needs more money. In short some dont like being messed with or pushed / abused.
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post #18 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Baisey View Post

I totally agree with Kal !
If you would have ran out and bought the 2100 you would have a hard time using it for HD material. Im not sure if it would have ran 1080I at 33 kHz but it wouldnt run 720P at 45 kHz so you would have had to run 480P at 31.5 kHz.

I dont know the EPC2100 so Im not sure what it will or will not do past its specs. Doug

Remember if you have component out on the sources most of the projectors will need a transcoder to convert component to RGB so another $200 avg expense. This needs more thought. CRT is analog.

Specs:
kHz is the horiz freq spec that a projector can run at.
Hz is the vertical freq refresh that a projector can run at.
mhz is the bandwidth capabilities of the projector. (the only one you can push) 'sometimes' without degrading the image to a point of a smear.

Oh I forgot, I meant analog chassis* are they any good?

well and for the rest, well yeah Id like to have a crt that can do hd-material, it was probably a good thing that I didnt buy the ecp.. however that guy seemed very interested when i told him about my ultra modded xbox, so hes going to let me have a crt projector of a different caliber; so it seems..

so I shouldnt go for anything less than 72khz?
and could someone please answer me about the wear thing, cause I really dont know what wear is acceptable cause curts article on that sucked
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post #19 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Last all CRT projectors are female. If you want to 'tweak' them for hours you will usually get faced with a attitude that needs more money. In short some dont like being messed with or pushed / abused.[/quote]

Whow, yeah I wouldnt want to mess it up, please give me some examples of what I should Not do please
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post #20 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:27 PM
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Do you have picture of that M8500 tube?
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post #21 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:44 PM
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480P 31.5 kHz
1080I 33 kHz
720P 45 kHz
1440X960P 60 kHz
1080P about 65 kHz

Not sure what your wanting to run at 72 kHz unless your talking Hz. If you increase the Hz of the above freqs your going to raise the kHz and bandwidth required to run it.

If your talking bandwidth mhz then it depends on what projector in being used but look over the specs that are posted at Curts site, some have * next to them.

I can only comment on NECs but you do short sessions when setting up and not constantly ramping convergence and focus drive amps. They need to cool back down and stabilize.
Use a reasonable throw distance.
You dont tweak pots inside, period. If unsure fight the urge until you ask someone.
Dont throw a blanket over them and run.
Dont shove a freq to them that is out of spec if you can help it.
Use a external test pattern or Avia DVD to do the mechanical set up.
Use 75 ohm RGB cables.
This and a lot more but I think you understand now right? Doug
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post #22 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ile View Post

Do you have picture of that M8500 tube?

Nope, but he said it only had "slight wear" on it, and hes gonna show me a bunch of movies this weekend before I choose so uh what should I look out for in the picture? discolorations?
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post #23 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm Let me Reformulate the big main question around this whole thread:

What crt should I expect to get for a mainstream lcd projector (roughly 500usd if sold)
1000:1 in contrast, 1000 ansi lumens 1024*720 WXGA, DVI outlet
and an extremely modded original xbox (with tooons of emulators and games) that could also be sold for a hefty buck...?

Please use the projector rankings as reference*
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post #24 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axellagerlf View Post

Nope, but he said it only had "slight wear" on it, and hes gonna show me a bunch of movies this weekend before I choose so uh what should I look out for in the picture? discolorations?

You need to look at the tube faces themselves, not the picture quality.
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post #25 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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why would I throw a blanket over it?


Dont shove a freq to them that is out of spec if you can help it.

you use Rivatuner for that right?

You dont tweak pots inside, period. If unsure fight the urge until you ask someone.

Ok, though I heard the M8500 was totally digital (chassis)

Use a reasonable throw distance.

is 3.2m ok for a 100inch screen?
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post #26 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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oh and please tell me everybody!

What should I tell him to test run when hes showing off the projectors? what should I look for in the picture and so on?

Im going to go look at them this weekend, and Im 90% I wont leave without one!:P
I neeed a crt projector nooow..
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post #27 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Use 75 ohm RGB cables.

thats standard RGHV right?
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post #28 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

You need to look at the tube faces themselves, not the picture quality.

ok, but if I cant see anything weird on screen, why should I care for the tube faces?
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post #29 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 01:01 PM
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To be honest, it isn't really worth it to spend $500 on a CRT projector. You need at least 800$ to get an EM set, and ES sets aren't really worth it anymore. Then you would also need around $200 more in order to add component inputs to the projector or else you'd be stuck at 480i nastyness. And you don't need to post every 30 seconds...this isn't a chat room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axellagerlf View Post

ok, but if I cant see anything weird on screen, why should I care for the tube faces?

Because you don't know what you're looking for.
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post #30 of 62 Old 09-10-2007, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

You need to look at the tube faces themselves, not the picture quality.

oh ok, whats "acceptable tube wear?
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