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post #91 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

I would like to get a non biased person on the forum to volunteer to run the shootout. Anyone who offers mods should be invited to come. It needs to be judged on all of the criteria Image Quality, Construction Quality, Price what ever makes sense. The test needs to be a blind test with out Bias. We should each bring a moded projector and be running the same source from a distribution amp. One way to make this happen is to stop buying mods till it happens!

OK, let's make it happen..



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Mike I know you are a good guy you do do a lot for the forum. I am not attacking you in any way shape or form. It is that you claim to have the best mod and you have a lot to freinds that say you do, you may or may not but we will never know if we do no shoot it out.

Gary

Sorry Gary, but it's always you and Greg that keeps making the who has the best mod claims. I'm the guy that simply would like to have that proven. Am I confident of what I'm doing - absolutely. look at how long this thread has been going before your arrival. And find one time where I've made a post against you, your mods or anything else that you're doing. It was only after you came in and made your slick comments against me.

Also be mindful, that I have NEVER said anything against you or what you're doing, or the way you do anything on this forum. And you know I have history (I also have a ton of emails and PM's from others from you). but it's not professional to ever expose or disclose any dealing with any business on an open forum and it's something that I won't do otherwise. There's some things that I'll not do.



I'm open and all for this. We can do it with or without having two projectors. but be mindful that the first requirement for this is that it MUST be a 1920x1080P challenge. And 72hz is also a part of this challenge.

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post #92 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

OK, let's make it happen..





Sorry Gary, but it's always you and Greg that keeps making the who has the best mod claims. I'm the guy that simply would like to have that proven. Am I confident of what I'm doing - absolutely. look at how long this thread has been going before your arrival. And find one time where I've made a post against you, your mods or anything else that you're doing. It was only after you came in and made your slick comments against me.

Also be mindful, that I have NEVER said anything against you or what you're doing, or the way you do anything on this forum. And you know I have history (I also have a ton of emails and PM's from others from you). but it's not professional to ever expose or disclose any dealing with any business on an open forum and it's something that I won't do otherwise. There's some things that I'll not do.



I'm open and all for this. We can do it with or without having two projectors. but be mindful that the first requirement for this is that it MUST be a 1920x1080P challenge. And 72hz is also a part of this challenge.

Sounds like we may have a challenge here. Great! I will be away for the weekend I will check back in on Monday.

Gary

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post #93 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I am getting out of the CRT arena. Unfortunately my HT is set up for only one big mother FP CRT. A blind shootout wouldn't be possible. Almost any where else too. I think Hi-Rez has such a facility.To set things up right, calibrate etc would take multiple multiple days and inordinate resources. Without this, whatever the results they will be challenged as meaningless. No manufacturer in their right mind, except Hi-Rez, if it were done in their facility, could afford to do this. Shipping epenses, travel, just the sheer time involved, there are good reaons why this hasn't be done and to me will never be done.

And suppose it were done. What? The winner might sell a couple more to the bottom feeders that remain in this sport?

If anyone wants to do it here I would provide work space and 3 8500's with new tubes. Just pick one install your boards and we can have a shoot out. All it will cost is airfair and hotel.

Gary

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post #94 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hirez Projection::
would like to get a non biased person on the forum to volunteer to run the shootout. Anyone who offers mods should be invited to come. It needs to be judged on all of the criteria Image Quality, Construction Quality, Price what ever makes sense. The test needs to be a blind test with out Bias. We should each bring a moded projector and be running the same source from a distribution amp. One way to make this happen is to stop buying mods till it happens!

Gary first off, congratts on getting the service contract for runco crt projectors!!

second, no need to bring an entire projector. The purpose is not to see who hast the best modded projector its who has the best mods for that projector. there may be other subtle mods done to your projectors not board related. This shoot out is for mods that can be bought and added to someone existing system , just plug them in converge do a quick and not exact color calibration and see whos makes the greatest improvment to a stock projector. this will then be a good starting point for that person to see how much better their image can be before going for a full out color calibration. But if time permits and every one agrees maybe we can get some non biased calibrator to do the quick set up mechanicly but i think alot of the hobbiest do their own set up and this shoot out should reflect that. How good are these mods to a individuals system that they will most likly set up. then we can later have it professionaly calibrated on our own.

My projecotr is stock and ready and willing for the shoot out.

Athanasios
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post #95 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Gary first off, congratts on getting the service contract for runco crt projectors!!

second, no need to bring an entire projector. The purpose is not to see who hast the best modded projector its who has the best mods for that projector. there may be other subtle mods done to your projectors not board related. This shoot out is for mods that can be bought and added to someone existing system , just plug them in converge do a quick and not exact color calibration and see whos makes the greatest improvment to a stock projector. this will then be a good starting point for that person to see how much better their image can be before going for a full out color calibration. But if time permits and every one agrees maybe we can get some non biased calibrator to do the quick set up mechanicly but i think alot of the hobbiest do their own set up and this shoot out should reflect that. How good are these mods to a individuals system that they will most likly set up. then we can later have it professionaly calibrated on our own.

My projecotr is stock and ready and willing for the shoot out.

Athanasios

Good points. this is a MOD shoot out, and can be easily done by swapping the boards into the same projector. We're not comparing projectors here, we'll be comparing the boards in the projector, and I'm not expecting the differences to be that subtle that we'll be needing to shoot them side by side for comparison.

I say we first go the swap mods in a projector first. And we do that here where both Greg and I am located. if the results are subtle, then that leaves us no other option but to put them into two separate machines.

Again, I'm not expecting the results to be subtle.

there's no need for calibrations. just put the boards in and do a quick eye ball grayscale and convergence. That makes things more challenging.

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post #96 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I think Hi-Rez has such a facility.To set things up right, calibrate etc would take multiple multiple days and inordinate resources. Without this, whatever the results they will be challenged as meaningless

Oh so High Rez is the ONLY one with a facility for this. I may not have the space that High Rez has for large groups, but for sure I've been certified by two very large national operations to have a well equipped shop, that has all of the necessary equipment to recently qualify me to be a servicer (as you know of) for one of the largest CRT sales in the country. And not only that, I'm also a commercial Barco 909 repair facility, And I've had the visit and approval for that as well.

In a lot of ways, I can almost duplicate what they have at VDC's lab, so I'm not a small fish out there.

And as you also know, I've turned down doing service work for quite a few HT operations. My shop is a commercial repair facility. I do mods from the shop at my house.

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post #97 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

Good points. this is a MOD shoot out, and can be easily done by swapping the boards into the same projector. We're not comparing projectors here, we'll be comparing the boards in the projector, and I'm not expecting the differences to be that subtle that we'll be needing to shoot them side by side for comparison.

I say we first go the swap mods in a projector first. And we do that here where both Greg and I am located. if the results are subtle, then that leaves us no other option but to put them into two separate machines.

Again, I'm not expecting the results to be subtle.

there's no need for calibrations. just put the boards in and do a quick eye ball grayscale and convergence. That makes things more challenging.

Also guys i do have two working Projectors here, both with similar wear on the tubes and plenty of space for at least 20 people at one time.Plus it can be made a weekend trip for some, Niagara Falls and the casinos are 30 minute drive and Toronto is an hour and a half away. I have not met any of the guys here on AVS and would like to meet you all, especially since a lot of you have helped and given me advice on how to set up and what to buy when i first got into CRT last december. Also there are many memebrs in the GTA up in canada who i think would be able to make this trip also. It be an 8 hour drive for both mike and gary if they have lead feet! . well my offer is open and any time would be great. Also i have had the projector calibrated in may by Craig rounds. But most likly with major board changes the grey scale would be affected.Is this correct guys?


Edit: Did a google for west seneca to baltimore and Boston both are 7 hour drive +/- 15 minuts
Athanasios
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post #98 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 01:51 PM
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OK, I could use that 10 bucks chip.., so I'll make things easier for my opponents (whichever one, but hopefully both).

Let's modify Athanasios offer to host this shootout at his place, and lets make it so that Athanasios also becomes a winner by not having to pay for the winning mods.

Since Athanasios may be mid point between me and High Rez, and that's a lot closer than Gary's offer to Oliver here:





And check this out. I doubt Greg lives 25 miles away.......

So no Chip. This is the last time I'm going to let both High Rez and Greg jump in a thread and attack what I'm doing and get away with it. They keep claiming to have better (notice I've not said that, or anything negative against what they're doing), and puts out the BOLDEST challenges for a shootout, but for some reason I'm not getting the OK on this.

I think it'll also be a good thing to assemble a small judging panel to look at some other things workmanship, soldering, appearance and the patterns test, that will also be included in this SHOOTOUT.

And to save me the trip up that way, I'll offer a free mod upgrade to anyone that can persuade both Greg and Gary to have the Shootout here on my 8500. Or let's see if we can move it to Mark Haflich's and put it on his 9500 Ultra. That way High Rez can send their boards to their partner Greg, because he's in this area. And If this happens here, I'll still look out for Athanasios, and give him a mod upgrade at half price.

I need that 10 bucks Chip..

That ten bucks, plus the juice (is that what you call it Mark?) will be on the way just as soon as there is a winner I'm also saddened that Mark is copping an insanity plee and jumping ship. The Viagra must be working better than anyone could have hoped for. When it goes down and he's come to his senses, I'll make the trip down and help re-hang his projector

Chip

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post #99 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 03:41 PM
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MP I didn't say that it couldn't be done in your shop. You are reading something into my post that isn't there. Please.

Someone wanted a blind test. That is something different and takes some hidden space. Yada Yada. Tough to be blind when switching boards and convergence. Of course one could dump the boards into two unmarked bags and hope the installer would't know which was which. Easier to find a 25 year old virgin. LOL Better to have the installer, install them and then leave the room and have someone who didn't know which boards were in there run the demo. The outside of the VIM boards would have to be stock. No added pot which would give it away. Far far better to use two stock projectors and have the boards VIM and Neck installed and set up. Cover them up with cloth and just change the source cables at the source end. A new person not involved in the set up would run the demo. Sounds great. Would I attend? Not a chance. I know the winner. Like a horse race I've done my handicapping. I'll give 5 to one on the one I'm not picking and those in the jury can call the result. Any takers at say $50 bucks? I keep the $50 or pay out $250 if I lose.

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post #100 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Someone wanted a blind test. That is something different and takes some hidden space. Yada Yada. Tough to be blind when switching boards and convergence. Of course one could dump the boards into two unmarked bags and hope the installer would't know which was which. Easier to find a 25 year old virgin. LOL Better to have the installer, install them and then leave the room and have someone who didn't know which boards were in there run the demo. The outside of the VIM boards would have to be stock. No added pot which would give it away. Far far better to use two stock projectors and have the boards VIM and Neck installed and set up. Cover them up with cloth and just change the source cables at the source end. A new person not involved in the set up would run the demo. Sounds great. Would I attend? Not a chance. I know the winner. Like a horse race I've done my handicapping. I'll give 5 to one on the one I'm not picking and those in the jury can call the result. Any takers at say $50 bucks? I keep the $50 or pay out $250 if I lose.

Hey, it's time to now call this what it is. once more there's smoke coming from up north. You remember the last time this happened. That thread with a similar challenge, and it was almost daily that we were reading that someone had visited the High Rez lab and was blown away by the image they saw on the screen there. And a few of the people that were 'QUOTED' to have made the remarks were rather well known. Do you still remember that?

Well, that went on for weeks, until that day came when the many people from the forum showed up, and it seems that it took two days later before we got anybody to say anything on what went on there. I think Chip had commented on the convergence being off and the weather. And another guy said something that was not related to image in any way. And I have no idea what happened with the other folk who were there, because they never said anything at all on the forum. So after all that smoke......it got real silent after that day at High Rez.

Now, if the same smoke was blown then, why should anything be different this time. So if we want to get into the color of the smoke - go right ahead. to me smoke is smoke. And that's why I'm not going that far for this. I'll go as far as my first offer to the guy with the 8000. But after that big blow-off the last time I'm doubting that. It leads me to believe that either someone up there is clueless as to what to look for with an image. Or it was just a bunch of marketing hype.

Either way, it's beyond me.

If in fact, after that first gathering there would have been some good reports to support the hype the last time, then I'd be on board this time.

I tell you what, you get Chip to ride back out there, and I'll give this a second thought..

Yeah, let's have chip go back and give us a report..

Actually, the reports were giving. they were sent by most at that were there. The just were not posted on the forum.

If you really want my attention, get something going like what I saw while at chips awhile back coming out of those G90's. Now that's the kind of stuff that'll make to hop on a plain going where ever..

What Gary should do is send down a set of boards to be evaluated in either my 8500 or your 9500 (before you take it down). Send the set to anyone of his choice and we'll have a mini meet just for this purpose. I'll let that person (or someone else) install the boards in the projector. I'll also let that person or anyone else that may be chosen for this, to also color balance the projector to those High Rez boards. We'll then watch movies, test patterns and whatever else for a predetermined amount of time. Once that time is up, we'll have that same person swap the boards and put my set of boards in the projector. And I'll use the exact same settings that were done for the High Rez boards. I'm raising the bar here.

I also feel that if there's really something cooking at High Rez, would have joined in on the Screenshot shootout thread. At least we'll get to see something to help us get that last event out of our minds.

Enough of this and that, send the boards down...

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post #101 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 05:30 PM
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I guess it doesnt matter who installs them just as long as the two who are bringing the mods are in the room with each other as Mods are installed. The judging panel and the rest of the gang can hang out drinking beer getting to know each other and then the installer calls us in for the viewing and judging. And i was thinking it be best to use one machine and not two since even if they both had new tubes and all else was the same i think there might still be one machine ,for some reason,that just looks better than the other. So it has to be a one machine setup with a board swap.

Athanasios

PS: mark id still like you to come you sound like a fun person to hang with even if you come across a little pessimistic
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post #102 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Athanasios

PS: mark id still like you to come you sound like a fun person to hang with even if you come across a little pessimistic

Yes, he's good people to be around. just remember to NOT get into that Miata with him behind the wheel.

Oh, he's a tad optimistic, but definitely a pessimist..

No, he's really a good hearted person and will give you the shirt off his back or anything else you'd need.

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post #103 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 05:53 PM
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Yes, he's good people to be around. just remember to NOT get into that Miata with him behind the wheel.

Oh, he's a tad optimistic, but definitely a pessimist..

No, he's really a good hearted person and will give you the shirt off his back or anything else you'd need.

Miata! wait till i give him a ride in My Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR, he'll age another 5 years before the ride is over !

Athanasios
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post #104 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 06:33 PM
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Well you guys can use my 9500LC. I can seat 12. I still have RGBHV cables to feed it but my souces now go through the Radiance into the new Moome. The Radiance or any HDMI won't do 1080p 72. I don't have any 72 sources. I can put up two or three people at my house. Gary, an old friend, would be one. Perhaps he will tell you the story of the AVS party where I won the grand prize while sitting next to him.

We can do this on a Sat or Sunday, or both. I think it should be a fun thing and not a hostile one. Its a sport. Maybe opposing teams but before and after friends. It has to be fair. We gonna have three sets of boards. Hi rez, greg, and MP. What's the judging criteria. Taste, originality, and presentation. Whoops thats Iron Chef stuff. Maybe Looks, bikini, and talent? Nope that's Ms America. So we need criteria. You can't really judge build quality blind. If its blind, owners of any of the mods could still judge and the principals can not be in the room during any judging. Just the idiot operator who doesn't know whats in the set. A protocol of what clips and test patterns will be used for judging. NO freekin screen shots of clips. None. They are not a valid way of judging anything except resolution patterns, convergence, geometry, a few others. You guys hassel it out and tell me when. Perhaps the first weekend in November? If anybody acts up or isn't nice I'll turn my attack McCaw on you. My pooch is way to gentle to attack anybody. But not me. Any crass words between contestants and your out, right then and there. And its time to stop the bad words and thoughts here now. Whatever happenerd in the past, its over. Start fresh and lets do it.

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post #105 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 06:57 PM
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Well you guys can use my 9500LC. I can seat 12. I still have RGBHV cables to feed it but my souces now go through the Radiance into the new Moome. The Radiance or any HDMI won't do 1080p 72. I don't have any 72 sources. I can put up two or three people at my house. Gary, an old friend, would be one. Perhaps he will tell you the story of the AVS party where I won the grand prize while sitting next to him.

We can do this on a Sat or Sunday, or both. I think it should be a fun thing and not a hostile one. Its a sport. Maybe opposing teams but before and after friends. It has to be fair. We gonna have three sets of boards. Hi rez, greg, and MP. What's the judging criteria. Taste, originality, and presentation. Whoops thats Iron Chef stuff. Maybe Looks, bikini, and talent? Nope that's Ms America. So we need criteria. You can't really judge build quality blind. If its blind, owners of any of the mods could still judge and the principals can not be in the room during any judging. Just the idiot operator who doesn't know whats in the setn. A protocol of what clips and test patterns will be used for judging. NO freekin screen shots of clips. None. They are not a valid way of judging anything except resolution patterns, convergence, geometry, a few others. You guys hassel it out and tell me when. Perhaps the first weekend in November? If anybody acts up or isn't nice I'll turn my attack McCaw on you. My pooch is way to gentle to attack anybody. But not me. Any crass words between contestants and your out, right then and there. And its time to stop the bad words and thoughts here now. Whatever happenerd in the past, its over. Start fresh and lets do it.

"Criteria" Oh yee who bringeth the best pizza and beer wins. And a good skin-flick to judge best flesh tones

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post #106 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:14 PM
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There is no best beer. Theyy are all good. And at CRT meets we eat meat, not pizza. Barbecue, steaks, hamburger, hot dogs. Pizza for breakfast maybe, but thats it. Chip you need to make it down here. At your place it would have to be a clam bake with lobster.

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post #107 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:28 PM
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I read read this stuff a little. I am just offering a place. Not trying to preempt Nashoo. Fine with me there too. Have Miata, can travel.

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post #108 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:41 PM
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I take it back Yikes, West Seneca is near Buffalo. No way I am driving to Buffalo. Somewhere along the coast between Boston and Wash DC. I think the greatest contingent is here also cionsidering Greg and MP live here. But Buffalo is a relatively cheap airfare from DC. Only about $100RT from BWI.

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post #109 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 07:45 PM
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Just to set things straight, I'll not be in a hurry to be the eyes of the world again. I had my own reasons for going there the first time. I had been using my 4600HD for about a year and a half. Durring that year and a half I'd taken my share of ribbing from a particular two wing-nuts who couldn't find their ass with both hands. This gave me the chance to see first hand what I was told I was missing. I was not interested in the mods and was prepaired to judge it as a stock Marquee against my stock 4600HD. At the time, I had the money to "upgrade" and if I saw what I'd expected, I would have been in the market for a Marquee. Anyway, I went there with high hopes. What I saw was a mis-converged projector with banding and noise. If that's any indication of what to expect from even a stock Marquee, I'll pass. Well folks, two years have passed and I'm still with the chosen one, in fact two. Yes, it is as they all are, bandwidth limited and yes one of them has the sucky lens flapping but the other one............. sit tight folks, you ain't seen nuthin yet.
And that's all I'll have to say about it.

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #110 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 08:30 PM
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I take it back Yikes, West Seneca is near Buffalo. No way I am driving to Buffalo. Somewhere along the coast between Boston and Wash DC. I think the greatest contingent is here also cionsidering Greg and MP live here. But Buffalo is a relatively cheap airfare from DC. Only about $100RT from BWI.

Why does buffalo always get a bad rap it is cheap air fair and the Canadian ballet is very close, where by law they Bare it all !

Mark dont worry about trying to steal my thunder , This is actualy Jims thread. but california is way to far for most of us if he decided to hold the shoot out.

I also can have maybe 2 or 3 people stay at my place. I'm single so i dont have to worry about the miss' being a problem. Any time would be great. i was thinking A friday and saturday afffair with maybe a late sunday final football night for those who want to leave on monday. Sunday mornings i have to be at my restaurant its my busiest day and i hate to leave it alone.
What ever is decided bye the modders is fine with me. I just want to know who has the best mods for a stock marquee 8000/8500.

Athanasios
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post #111 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 09:44 PM
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We get to eat at the restaurant too I imagine. Need a passport to go accross the border now too I think.

Tell us more about the eats.

I could probably arrange a tour of the B&K plant if the group wanted. I think many people showing up on Friday would not happen. Of course, MP almost never works ( a funny MP, a funny) and I am pretty much free to do what I want. Buffalo does have a top notch Italian restaurant too. Still. It freezes over real soon so this thing would have to happen early November. I hope Gary doesn't have any warrants outstanding in Buffalo. I'm clean.

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post #112 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 09:55 PM
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There will never be a legit shootout between mod vendors.

Nobody wants to spend 16 hours setting up two projectors for free. Let alone tote them across the state lines.

And even if it ever happened, then the excuses would fly like crazy unless each projector was identical in year built and tube condition.

Fact is, Mike spends more time here than any other modder. So not only do I believe that he is more "up" on current Marquee trends, but I also feel more comfortable giving my business to him.

With that said, I would love to hear about anything new that Gary has cooked up, since he was at one time a huge player. And still is, depending on what circles you float in. I really don't know much about Eiesmann other than his name is ridiculously difficult to spell, which makes finding his website next to impossible until you have saved it to your favorites. But he may be getting a bit of business from me soon (not mod related) so I could have something to say sooner or later.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #113 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 09:59 PM
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And considering that you get Mike's mods through Tim at etechvideo.com makes things even better, since Tim is one of "those guys" that you can rely on. I don't think Tim has ever had to make up excuses on the forums for anything.

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #114 of 240 Old 09-28-2007, 10:40 PM
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Oh yea!

He's never explained why he is so ugly!

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post #115 of 240 Old 09-29-2007, 04:42 AM
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Nobody wants to spend 16 hours setting up two projectors for free. Let alone tote them across the state lines.

No toteing of projectors is needed. I have two and we really only need one so its exactly the same. Also this is not to see whos mods look best on a spanking bran new projector. Its a real world test of mods on a hypothetical potential buyers projector, which will not be 100% perfect. This would show how, and who's mods will make the most imrovment to the endusers projector. Its like those performance mods for rice burners. they add something to their cars and go tot he track to see what improvement it makes, then they add something else and see what that will do. this is the same concept. Also make the two vendors might learn something from each other and then imrove thier product.

The B&K plant is like 2 minuts from my house and i have never been there but it be grat to see it.

i dont think we need passports yet to go see the dance shows across the border either


Athanasios
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post #116 of 240 Old 09-29-2007, 08:19 AM
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There is no best beer. Theyy are all good. And at CRT meets we eat meat, not pizza. Barbecue, steaks, hamburger, hot dogs. Pizza for breakfast maybe, but thats it. Chip you need to make it down here. At your place it would have to be a clam bake with lobster.

To hell with the shoot-out. I'm up for a clam bake with lobster. That's one thing my wife would have no problem with. For me to go anywhere it would have to be next summer.

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #117 of 240 Old 09-29-2007, 11:34 AM
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Gary, you haven't answered my questions about what it is that makes your mods so good - and what they achieve. Until a definitive answer is given, I will always be skeptical. Mike was prepared to put his money on the table as was Greg, but you haven't said a word.

For all I know, you'll bring a set of MP specials along with you and rebadge them HiRes. No-one wants trade secrets - IMHO anyone that knows electronics and PJs well enough to build mods has the capability to reverse engineer a set simply by obtaining them on the open market and analysing them. It does no harm to share openly the specifics of one's mods. 99% of the people here wouldn't be able to reverse build another person's mods, so why the silence?

Also, you asked me to contact Steven Flynn about an upfit of my Vision 1. He quoted me $2700 - I asked him what he did to justify that as I only needed second hand parts and could do the work myself and I just needed the boards. I gave him a list of boards and asked him to quote on them individually or as a whole. Have I heard anything back? No. I doubt I will, probably because I mentioned Tim's name in my email.

Its -feels- like HiRes was prepared to take my $2700 but they weren't prepared to quantify what they were doing - would I get a PJ back with just the deflection board replaced and a claim that it was made "an ultra"? The parts new from VDC would cost over 5k new. Steven said in his email that he would do the upfit with all the new boards and they would be sourced directly from VDC.
I am quite prepared to buy 2nd hand parts off you - you do have "thousands" of PJs there don't you?

The moment Steven found out I was an educated buyer I didn't hear boo. That makes me very suspicious. Why is it that HiRes don't want to ever discuss exactly what they do and go silent when asked?

What do you do in your mods to justify their cost? Mike or Greg are happy to disclose information, why aren't you?

I want to know what I'm getting for my money. I don't want to hand it over on faith. Tell me exactly what benefits your mods offer and I will think very hard about giving you my hard earned cash.

Give me some very esoteric "audiophile" type marketing spiel and of course I'm going to wonder if you are telling me the truth or you're just going to get my boards and replace all the caps on them and charge me $5000 for the honor.

My goal: A blend of double stacked G90s! Encased in ice to prevent drift.
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post #118 of 240 Old 09-29-2007, 11:57 AM
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Gary, you haven't answered my questions about what it is that makes your mods so good - and what they achieve. Until a definitive answer is given, I will always be skeptical. Mike was prepared to put his money on the table as was Greg, but you haven't said a word.

For all I know, you'll bring a set of MP specials along with you and rebadge them HiRes. No-one wants trade secrets - IMHO anyone that knows electronics and PJs well enough to build mods has the capability to reverse engineer a set simply by obtaining them on the open market and analysing them. It does no harm to share openly the specifics of one's mods. 99% of the people here wouldn't be able to reverse build another person's mods, so why the silence?

Also, you asked me to contact Steven Flynn about an upfit of my Vision 1. He quoted me $2700 - I asked him what he did to justify that as I only needed second hand parts and could do the work myself and I just needed the boards. I gave him a list of boards and asked him to quote on them individually or as a whole. Have I heard anything back? No. I doubt I will, probably because I mentioned Tim's name in my email.

Its -feels- like HiRes was prepared to take my $2700 but they weren't prepared to quantify what they were doing - would I get a PJ back with just the deflection board replaced and a claim that it was made "an ultra"? The parts new from VDC would cost over 5k new. Steven said in his email that he would do the upfit with all the new boards and they would be sourced directly from VDC.
I am quite prepared to buy 2nd hand parts off you - you do have "thousands" of PJs there don't you?

The moment Steven found out I was an educated buyer I didn't hear boo. That makes me very suspicious. Why is it that HiRes don't want to ever discuss exactly what they do and go silent when asked?

What do you do in your mods to justify their cost? Mike or Greg are happy to disclose information, why aren't you?

I want to know what I'm getting for my money. I don't want to hand it over on faith. Tell me exactly what benefits your mods offer and I will think very hard about giving you my hard earned cash.

Give me some very esoteric "audiophile" type marketing spiel and of course I'm going to wonder if you are telling me the truth or you're just going to get my boards and replace all the caps on them and charge me $5000 for the honor.

Good points are made here. I also asked for a compleate run down of parts and i think i mentioned the mp mods and asked what they do that mp doesnt or does also. this is why i think a shoot out is need as well. Eisman theaters at least somewhat explains what is don to the marquee boards. I guess we might wait a long time for a shoot out or if some one has a set of boards and i willing to either send us thier boards or we go to there place with MP's boards.

It still be nice to have it at my place and the offer will still be open indefinitley. And mark Yes breakfast will be on me at my place, its about a 10 minute drive from my house just off exit 56 off the 90. The Odyssey is its name if anyone is ever driving though, stop on in and see if i'm there. I usually am the one cooking behind the grill .

Athanasios
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post #119 of 240 Old 09-30-2007, 12:37 AM
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I also asked for a compleate run down of parts and i think i mentioned the mp mods and asked what they do that mp doesnt or does also

Anyone that asks this question gets silence.

If I were making mods, I would be damned sure that I understood why my product had a competitive advantage over another product. I would have a complete list of pros and cons vs the other products. I would understand the "value adds" and in my marketing I would be damned sure that everyone buying my product knew why they were buying it.

So, Gary - I ask again - where are the value adds of your products. What are the pros and cons?

Mike and Greg have a website (and all their links work). On both their sites you have access to forums where potential buyers can talk about and educate themselves about the benefits of their products. I click on "FAQ" on your site and I get "404 page not found" Ummm...? I ask for a specification of works for upgrading my 9500LC to an Ultra and the silence is as pertinent as the last 404 error I got.

I'm not trying to shoot you down here - I want you to explain to me why I can't get the answers to some fundemental questions that I'm sure I'm not the only one asking. How many people have handed their cash over in good faith and wonder what they've actually purchased?

You know how scammers operate? One way is that they advertise their product and hope people pay without asking any questions. The moment someone is catching on, the scammer doesn't reply. Silence. Now I'm not saying you are a scammer - but your modus operandi is smelling awfully similar. Prove me wrong and I promise I will buy your mods and upgrade my Vision 1 through you.

If I only get more silence, I'll assume that your words are just smoke and that you are hoping that your customers don't ask too many questions.

My goal: A blend of double stacked G90s! Encased in ice to prevent drift.
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post #120 of 240 Old 09-30-2007, 09:20 AM
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I've been thinking somemore about the shoot out and comparisons to A vs B say in audio. Would anyone want to travel to a meet to see a few sources or clips or patterns on a machine and then after awhile see the same thing on the machine with swapped out boards? The results? Fymks are better. UH. But couldn't we compare this scene against that again, the blacks there we a little better on GGGDS machine. No they weren't. Yes they were. You don't remember.

A/B needs to be side by side and repeatable. It needs to be done at a Koosman's were the Zilla can be unhooked, different boards inserted in one machine, and the same source fed both. Without such comparisons, the exercise would be worthless.

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