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post #1 of 45 Old 02-01-2008, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I need to know what you guys are running for V scan rates. Im a nut for wanting to run a multiple of 24. I tried 48 and theres no way I can live with it.
Id love 1080p 72 but I do not know of any scalers that offer it. Im not using a HTPC so that is eliminated from the equation.
1080p 60 is common and not a problem but I also want 1080p 72. What options do I have if any, thanks!!!
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post #2 of 45 Old 02-01-2008, 07:15 PM
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Don't you just hate when someone answers a question with a question?
What CRT projector do you plan on feeding 1080P 72 to?

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post #3 of 45 Old 02-01-2008, 07:28 PM
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Alan, the Lumagens can do 1080P at 71.928 if you decrease the HRES down from 1920 to about 1800 (custom). You'll easily be able to stretch the width back to the proper AR. You'll never notice except with a 1-pixel pattern of 1920 vertical lines.


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post #4 of 45 Old 02-01-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

What would be wrong with 1080i95.904?

Where did I imply you were wrong? If you like it, use it. 1080i at any refresh rate on your dwin will be more suitable than on the projector that Alan is looking at.


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post #5 of 45 Old 02-01-2008, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I forgot to mention I am trying to preserve the 1080p 24 from my BD player as much as possible. I do not know if there would be any loss going back to a interlaced from progressive but I will try all the above and see what I get. I have a 9" CRT so it is fully capable of resolving 1080p.

I did not know the Lumagen could output 1080 72. I thought I read somewhere it was limited on MHZ. I tried 720p 72hz and while it says it is out putting 72 the projector is reading 60hz still.
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post #6 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I did not know the Lumagen could output 1080 72. I thought I read somewhere it was limited on MHZ.

Yes. 1920x1080P@71.928 is just beyond the Lumagen's bandwidth limit. That's why you need to reduce the HRES and create the custom res of 1800x1080P@71.928.


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post #7 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 06:00 AM
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reio-ta

On a 9" CRT the field lines from 1080i, even at 96hz, can be very distracting. They are occasionally visible on an 8"er.

Wait till you've tried it before recommending it, you've had a 7" CRT for a couple of days...

I reckon I'd go HTPC and 1080p 72hz, or try making the dots oval for 1080i 96hz

Is the cat out of the bag? G90? 9500LC?

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post #8 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

Is the cat out of the bag? G90? 9500LC?


Just what I was thinking...

C'MON! Fess up Alan. Two months ago you were jumping back in with a DWIN 7"er.

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post #9 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry,Barco 1209s with the Runco wrappings.
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post #10 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 07:20 AM
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24p is 23.98 , so 72p should be 71.94

Is there a reason to use 71.928 ???

Is that bandwidth constraint? Or did I get my sums wrong?

(Andy checks again on his fingers!)

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post #11 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 07:28 AM
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Andy:

72/1.001 = 71.9280719281

24/1.001 = 23.976023976

Kai
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post #12 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 07:56 AM
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Hi.
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post #13 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMrH View Post

24p is 23.98 , so 72p should be 71.94

Is there a reason to use 71.928 ???

Is that bandwidth constraint? Or did I get my sums wrong?

(Andy checks again on his fingers!)

I've never heard anyone recommend 71.94

24p is 24/1.001 = 23.976023976023976023976023976024 (usually rounded off to 23.98)

I've always seen the framerate based on the same calculations that Kai used:
24x3/1.001 = 71.928

Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2 View Post

Andy:

72/1.001 = 71.9280719281

24/1.001 = 23.976023976

Kai



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post #14 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 09:59 AM
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Ingore the old fool !!!

Cliffy said it best

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post #15 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 12:21 PM
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Alan,

Seems pretty straight forward to me.
HD DVD or BluRay player outputting 1080P24 HDMI into a VP50 Pro.
VP50 set up for 1080P72 HDMI out
Into a Moome EX HD or input card on your G90.
Yes the picture will be a bit softer than optimal but still very nice. PJ is softening picture.
MP will have mods that I will be providing that will open bandwidth limitations in the near future.
Do mods to your G90 when they become available.

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post #16 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 12:52 PM
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Terry, it's a Runco'd 1209s.

Now I remember the thread. I think I said I'd pick that one

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post #17 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Terry I ended up getting a Runco/Barco 1209s
I bought the DVI input card from Greg @ Eisemann-Theater.
Im also planning on buying his complete mod kit.
I still have more work so I do not want to post anything yet until Im done but Im lovin it!

That remnds me of McLovin
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post #18 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 02:25 PM
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Alan,

The Runco 1100 I tested here (based on 1209S as well) was limited to 1080P60. I believe that this limitation was done in the Runco 1100 firmware and I'm quite sure that Greg could "fix" this for you. I believe that Runco did this because they "packaged the 1100 with the Faroudja DVP5000 which is limited to 1080P60.
Certainly a 1209S is not limited in this way.
Very nice PJ BTW and w/ Gregs opptions shoul be one of the best of the best CRT's. The one I used the higher performance P19LUG tubes.

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post #19 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Terry that explains why it blanks out when I feed it 1080 72. I think we are going to swap out some boards.
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post #20 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I still have more work so I do not want to post anything yet until Im done but Im lovin it!

That remnds me of McLovin

TEASE!!!!!!!!!!
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post #21 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Cliff

You gonna watch the big game on the stack tomorrow
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post #22 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 05:54 PM
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Yep!!!!! I'm gonna watch the game and will probably do some more screen shots.

I just popped in Alien vs. Predator on Blue Ray and so far the picture quality is AWESOME!!!! I love having good screenshot material.

So give me a little more tease big dog. What is your favorite thing so far about your new toy??????

Cliffy
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post #23 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Terry that explains why it blanks out when I feed it 1080 72. I think we are going to swap out some boards.

That's exactly what you will get when you feed in 1080P72.

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post #24 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Well tonight I set up a perfect 1080p 47.95. It is every bit as sharp as my digital.
I have to say I prefer 1080p 60 because it is brighter and smoother but for movies if I cannot do 1080p 72 I will go with 48. It really beats my digital in every way except for the obvious, size noise & flexibility. I found the Barco very quiet until I put the cover back on. The fans noise changes with the cover closed because of the enclosed space but I am so emerged in the picture I dont care. I want a few more days of tweaking before taking pictures. The convergence is rock solid, does not drift. I have to say this really is a very high end machine and I had no idea how far CRT had advanced. I use to have a few NECs and my fav the NEC 10PG but I have to say this thing has taken me to the next level.
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post #25 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Well tonight I set up a perfect 1080p 47.95. It is every bit as sharp as my digital.
I have to say I prefer 1080p 60 because it is brighter and smoother but for movies if I cannot do 1080p 72 I will go with 48. It really beats my digital in every way except for the obvious, size noise & flexibility. I found the Barco very quiet until I put the cover back on. The fans noise changes with the cover closed because of the enclosed space but I am so emerged in the picture I dont care. I want a few more days of tweaking before taking pictures. The convergence is rock solid, does not drift. I have to say this really is a very high end machine and I had no idea how far CRT had advanced. I use to have a few NECs and my fav the NEC 10PG but I have to say this thing has taken me to the next level.



Yep. That is a must smiley.

Dude is it sick or what? I can only imagine what your going through right now.........

Masking??? What's that?????

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post #26 of 45 Old 02-02-2008, 11:15 PM
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My PowerDVD/Vista HTPC that I built using Cliff’s suggested hardware is so stable now for BR and HD-DVD @ 72 Hz it’s really hard to beat for the money, only uses 4% of the processor too…Except for the audio sucks.

Edit: sorry I see you didn't want to go HTPC. My bad!


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post #27 of 45 Old 02-03-2008, 01:52 AM
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DATA 1209s units were limited and as I recall 1080p60 was the limit.

GRAPHICS 1209s units run higher bandwidth. Back in the day of the "twin" forum, I ran my GRAPHICS 1209s up PAST a 400Mhz signal !!! This was just to see what the PJ could accept and was in no way based on quality, this was a standard 1209s GRAPHICS.

IF the Runco unit happens to be based on the DATA version then you need to swop FOUR of the boards out and the firmware. Greg knows this.

Curts site mentions the DTV1100 is a Graphics 1209s in the specs - From what you are saying that might be a DATA 1209s. There are very few Data 1209s, Most appear in the UK, I have changed all Data 1209s I have had into graphics 1209s.

In fact I have just checked Curts site and there is no mention that I can find in the Barco PJ list of the DATA 1209s - There do Exists I have had at least 4.

Could you open the lid, flip open the TUBE area cover and post a picture of the SCAN WIDTH coil board, large board on back of TUBE area cover.

Could it be the Runco DTV1101 was the Graphics 1209s version???

Either way if your Runco does not go beyond 1080p60 it will be VERY soft at that, the Graphics is much better. Greg will mod the Graphics as well.

Maybe start another thread or by all means PM me.

Andy.

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post #28 of 45 Old 02-03-2008, 01:58 AM
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Alan,

I have just seen your mention of the fan noise with cover on/off.

You might not know but it is possible to remove the ENTIRE case and it is safe to run the PJ without its cosmetic exterior.

And YES it will run much quieter that way.

Its just six bolts. ONE thing to check is the outer Power input board has its COVER over it, its the ONLY board on the outside of the main chassis , Looking from the front table mounted it will be in the back left corner.

I have in the past sprayed the chassis black and run without case.

This is possible on the 1208, 1208s, 1209, 1209s series.

EARLY Barcos you shuld NOT do this as they are not enclosed units and require the cover to be safe.

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post #29 of 45 Old 02-03-2008, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Terry I ended up getting a Runco/Barco 1209s
I bought the DVI input card from Greg @ Eisemann-Theater.
Im also planning on buying his complete mod kit.
I still have more work so I do not want to post anything yet until Im done but Im lovin it!

That remnds me of McLovin

The DVI input card from Greg support up to 1920x1080@60, so 72 is too high I think. The chip is handling 165 MHz.

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post #30 of 45 Old 02-03-2008, 07:13 AM
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The PROJECTOR will still benefit from the higher bandwidth of the graphics internal boards IF its Data based. On the analogue side of the projector this increase in bandwidth will translate into improved sharpness in pictures - or reduces softness which ever way you look at it.

People often mention that 1080p72 is possible with the 165Mhz Bandwidth of the DVI chipset - this I believe is done with custom timing mabe from within a scaler, the EDID code of gregs mod might then need to be custom prog. (I have not done any work in this area)

Gregs mods and DVI input are an excellent addition to the Barco, I intend to include Gregs DVI input in my Cine9's.

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