Choosing SQ mids and Highs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-23-2009, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I got two polk SR124-DVC subs, the Mb Quart DSC 1500.D amp to power them, and the Pioneer PRS800 head unit to augment SQ. And now, I'm trying to find the mid and high speakers to try to achieve the best possible SQ system together with those subs.

I've narrowed my search to the following 2 amp setups, depending on the highs and mids chosen:

1 amp JBL GTO1004 or
2 amps Focal Solid 4

Regarding the mids and highs speakers, I narrowed my search to the following final choices (all these are adjusted to my maximum available budget):

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 set Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 pair Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 sets Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 pairs Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 set polk MMC6500 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids powerbass 4XL-65-92 in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters powerbass S-1s in the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids Eminence Beta-6a in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters Super Tweeter Jbl P26t in the trunk

1 set of focal 165 A1 front stage
1 set of focal 165 A1 rear doors
2 sets of focal 165 A1 for the trunk

Well, those are my possible choices available in the local market, and one of both amp setups should be chosen depending on the choice for mids and highs speakers.

Please remember that, while it seems that I can't pursue a pure SQ system having two subs at 1400 rms total, my main goal is to achieve the best possible sounding system with the two polk SR124-DVC subs and the PRS800 pioneer head unit(want more SQ than SPL), without any frequency range overpowering the other. Also, remember this is for a 2007 Jeep Liberty.

I will really appreciate your recommendations. Thanks.
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post #2 of 22 Old 08-23-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

Hello,

I got two polk SR124-DVC subs, the Mb Quart DSC 1500.D amp to power them, and the Pioneer PRS800 head unit to augment SQ. And now, I'm trying to find the mid and high speakers to try to achieve the best possible SQ system together with those subs.

I've narrowed my search to the following 2 amp setups, depending on the highs and mids chosen:

1 amp JBL GTO1004 or
2 amps Focal Solid 4

Regarding the mids and highs speakers, I narrowed my search to the following final choices (all these are adjusted to my maximum available budget):

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 set Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 pair Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 sets Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 pairs Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 set polk MMC6500 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids powerbass 4XL-65-92 in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters powerbass S-1s in the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids Eminence Beta-6a in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters Super Tweeter Jbl P26t in the trunk

1 set of focal 165 A1 front stage
1 set of focal 165 A1 rear doors
2 sets of focal 165 A1 for the trunk

Well, those are my possible choices available in the local market, and one of both amp setups should be chosen depending on the choice for mids and highs speakers.

Please remember that, while it seems that I can't pursue a pure SQ system having two subs at 1400 rms total, my main goal is to achieve the best possible sounding system with the two polk SR124-DVC subs and the PRS800 pioneer head unit(want more SQ than SPL), without any frequency range overpowering the other. Also, remember this is for a 2007 Jeep Liberty.

I will really appreciate your recommendations. Thanks.

Wow! What have you done to improve the cars acoustics? Unless you already installed a lot of damping inside the car that kind of power will surely find every resonance or rattle ruining the sound.

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post #3 of 22 Old 08-23-2009, 11:38 PM
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The best thing you can do is go out and listen to the speakers. Choose the one's that sound best to you. And if you are looking for the best sound on your budget, then forget about the rear speakers and put that money into your front speakers.
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-24-2009, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I would love to listen to those speakers, but unfortunately, there are no SQ competitions nor exhibitions in this country (Venezuela) whatsoever. This is why it's hard for me to choose between those, and need the experience from you guys to help me choose the best SQ components from within that list.

You also mentioned that I should forget the rear side and invest all speakers to the front stage. Is it possible to install 2 sets of comps in the front of a 2007 Jeep Liberty? Wouldn't that be cumbersome or saturated?

And mntmst, I will take into account the damping factor in due time.
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post #5 of 22 Old 08-24-2009, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

I would love to listen to those speakers, but unfortunately, there are no SQ competitions nor exhibitions in this country (Venezuela) whatsoever. This is why it's hard for me to choose between those, and need the experience from you guys to help me choose the best SQ components from within that list.

We can tell you what we like. However it will be a big gamble on your part as it is likely that your tastes will be different. I personally wouldn't choose any of your choices. I have yet to hear a Focal or Polk speaker that sounded good. My personal favorites are the Diamond Audio Hex Pro components.

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Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

You also mentioned that I should forget the rear side and invest all speakers to the front stage. Is it possible to install 2 sets of comps in the front of a 2007 Jeep Liberty? Wouldn't that be cumbersome or saturated?

What I mean is use the money you would have spent on the rear speakers to purchase a better set of front speakers.

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Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

And mntmst, I will take into account the damping factor in due time.

He's actually talking about sound damping material. "Damping factor" is a useless amplifier rating.
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post #6 of 22 Old 08-25-2009, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

We can tell you what we like. However it will be a big gamble on your part as it is likely that your tastes will be different. I personally wouldn't choose any of your choices. I have yet to hear a Focal or Polk speaker that sounded good. My personal favorites are the Diamond Audio Hex Pro components.

Well, I should wait and see if someone with experience with them steps in, since I'm strictly limited to those choices. Please don't ask why, just know that here in Venezuela the situation is bad for importing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

What I mean is use the money you would have spent on the rear speakers to purchase a better set of front speakers.

I agree, but if I buy a single great more expensive comp, I think that the 2 subs (1400 rms total) will overpower that single comp. So in that sense this system would be more SQL than SQ.

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Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

He's actually talking about sound damping material. "Damping factor" is a useless amplifier rating.

Yes, I know he was talking about sound damping material; I expressed myself incorrectly when I said "damping factor".
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post #7 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 02:34 AM
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I have yet to hear a Focal or Polk speaker that sounded good


Which focals have you heard?
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post #8 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

Well, I should wait and see if someone with experience with them steps in, since I'm strictly limited to those choices. Please don't ask why, just know that here in Venezuela the situation is bad for importing.


Depends on what type of sound you are after. Without auditioning them you can get the sound you are after with reviews. Focals tend to be on the bright side, something like dynaudio, and morel, tend to be more laid back. I would pick focal over polk though anyday.
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post #9 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I can't be able to listen myself to the different type of sounds, what exactly do you mean by being bright vs laid back?

And, is polk's MMC6500 an example of bright or laid back? And what about the SR6500?
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post #10 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 07:52 AM
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Which focals have you heard?

Pretty much all of them including 3-way sets. They lack any kind of midbass response, are all super bright, and all have very poor imaging. And that was true even in a sound room.
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post #11 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Pretty much all of them including 3-way sets. They lack any kind of midbass response, are all super bright, and all have very poor imaging. And that was true even in a sound room.

And would you think the same about polk's MMC6500, or even the better SR6500?
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post #12 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

Since I can't be able to listen myself to the different type of sounds, what exactly do you mean by being bright vs laid back?

bright=fatigueing sound that you won't want listen to very long.
laid back=sound you can listen for a long time.

Quote:


And, is polk's MMC6500 an example of bright or laid back? And what about the SR6500?

Probably on the bright side looking at a few reviews. I would go with the focals, they win world championships in car audio, and polk never wins anything.
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post #13 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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bright=fatigueing sound that you won't want listen to very long.
laid back=sound you can listen for a long time.



Probably on the bright side looking at a few reviews. I would go with the focals, they win world championships in car audio, and polk never wins anything.

According to Steven Kephart, the focals are very bright, too. But if they've won championships, there should be something else which gives them an edge over the polks. The focals I've got available here are the 165vr3, and the 165 A1. From polks I got available the MMC6500 and the SR6500. Since I felt more identified with a more laid back sound than a bright sound, between the 4, which would be more laid back and with greater SQ?

Also, consider that the polks have more rms power, which I think can help them keep pace with the 2 SR124-DVC subs I got..

What do you think guys?
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-26-2009, 10:47 PM
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bright=fatigueing sound that you won't want listen to very long.
laid back=sound you can listen for a long time.

Actually bright refers to a speaker with peaks in the higher frequencies. Focal, MB Quart, Boston, and some other companies are known to be this way. Some people like it while others, like me, prefer a more natural sounding top end.

Listening fatigue is generally caused by high levels of 3rd order or greater harmonic distortion.
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post #15 of 22 Old 08-27-2009, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

Actually bright refers to a speaker with peaks in the higher frequencies. Focal, MB Quart, Boston, and some other companies are known to be this way. Some people like it while others, like me, prefer a more natural sounding top end.


Luckily that's why they have Eq. You can achieve a flat response with any of those speakers.
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Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

What do you think guys?


Hard to say without hearing them. Some reviews claim the polks are bright also. Might have to up your budget if you want a silk dome tweeter which usually has warmer sound characteristics. And like i said above, there is always eq
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post #17 of 22 Old 08-27-2009, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I can't increase my available budget. I will have to choose the best from those options.

I'm unfortunately really not sure whether if I will prefer a brighter or warmer sound. The best comps I got available are Focal's 165vr3 and Polk's SR6500 and MMC6500. I can get the first two for the same price, and the last one on half the price, and only one of them is feasible for me to purchase.

Since this may be subjective, I leave you to your experience to decide which of them can generally achieve the best sounding experience in music like rock, reggae, and techno.

So, which of those would have the best general SQ, and also have more power to keep up with the two subs' 1400 rms of power?
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post #18 of 22 Old 08-30-2009, 02:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I've decided I would definitely go with only the SR6500 comp front stage. Now, I'm trying to see which is the best amp setup for powering them. A polk specialist informed that the mids from that comp can handle 150 rms, while the tweeters 80 rms. I would like to power the comp to their max potential. So I'm trying to find an amp setup that would do this. Also, please remember that SQ is the main focus, so the amp setup must be SQ oriented. Since I don't have much availability here, these are the choices I have:

- 1 Focal Solid 4 to power the tweeters, leaving 2 channels free. 1 Kenwood KAC-7203 to power the mids.

- 1 Mb Quart Dsc-2150 to power the mids, 1 Mb Quart Dsc-280 to power the tweeters. According to the official manual, this amps only manage a frequency range of 10hz-1.2khz, which I'm not sure whether if this would sound horrible with mids and tweeters, considering they are in higher frequencies. Please help me clear this.

- 1 JBL GTO1004 bi amped to the SR6500

- 1 Focal Solid 4 bi amped to the SR6500

-1 Kicker Zx 850.4

Which one do you think would be better?
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post #20 of 22 Old 08-30-2009, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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And do those amps offer more SQ than the focals and kenwood I posted?
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post #21 of 22 Old 10-04-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandieramonte View Post

Hello,

I got two polk SR124-DVC subs, the Mb Quart DSC 1500.D amp to power them, and the Pioneer PRS800 head unit to augment SQ. And now, I'm trying to find the mid and high speakers to try to achieve the best possible SQ system together with those subs.

I've narrowed my search to the following 2 amp setups, depending on the highs and mids chosen:

1 amp JBL GTO1004 or
2 amps Focal Solid 4

Regarding the mids and highs speakers, I narrowed my search to the following final choices (all these are adjusted to my maximum available budget):

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 set Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 pair Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 sets Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 pairs Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 set polk MMC6500 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids powerbass 4XL-65-92 in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters powerbass S-1s in the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids Eminence Beta-6a in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters Super Tweeter Jbl P26t in the trunk

1 set of focal 165 A1 front stage
1 set of focal 165 A1 rear doors
2 sets of focal 165 A1 for the trunk

Well, those are my possible choices available in the local market, and one of both amp setups should be chosen depending on the choice for mids and highs speakers.

Please remember that, while it seems that I can't pursue a pure SQ system having two subs at 1400 rms total, my main goal is to achieve the best possible sounding system with the two polk SR124-DVC subs and the PRS800 pioneer head unit(want more SQ than SPL), without any frequency range overpowering the other. Also, remember this is for a 2007 Jeep Liberty.

I will really appreciate your recommendations. Thanks.


This thread is a little old, but I would like to contribute.

First, you made an excellent choice in the Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS for your head unit.

I have been upgrading car audio systems since I bought my first car over 30 years ago. The quest for sound quality continues.

Fortunately, the technology is better than ever for achieving good sound in a vehicle. Also, spending ridiculous amounts of money on a good sounding system is, in my opinion, not necessary, especially if you can do-it-yourself.

I have a 1994 Pontiac Bonneville that I bought new. It has been pampered, and still looks and runs like new. It has not been my primary mode of transportation, and it is garaged most of the time.

However, when I do drive it, I want good sounding audio.

I made a major upgrade to the sound system about 3 years ago. It was a winter project in which I would work on it for perhaps an hour or two each evening, or when I had the time. It was a major job taking the car apart to run all of the cables, etc., but it was enjoyable for me.

I put a 10" Polk sub in the trunk driven by a 400 watt Alpine Class "D" mono amp.

I replaced the front speakers with Polk comps, and the rear deck speakers with Pioneer 6 X 9's. I replaced the head unit with a Pioneer deck that had good power for a head unit...4 x 50 watts.

After installing all of the components, it took a lot of trial and error to get the system tuned, but in the end, it sounded much better than the previous system.

Several months ago, my head unit died. I think the amp section went south.

I needed to replace the head unit ASAP, so I began researching the options, which I have pretty much ignored for 3 years since I wasn't in the market for new components.

I found the Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS head unit to be highly regarded, and so I bought one from an internet supplier. This head unit is the best one by far that I have ever had, and I have had my share of them.

The Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS has an auto EQ that is similar to Audessey in home audio systems. You place the mic at the preferred listening position, set the system to do its thing and get out of the car for about 5 minutes.

The head unit sets the time alignment, speaker levels and EQ including crossovers and slope. I was skeptical that a car head unit could make much of a difference, but boy was I surprised when I listened to the before and after difference.

The sound that I now have if far superior to anything that I have ever had. I did make a few manual adjustments for crossovers, and I bumped the high freq. up a little for the fronts. Also, like most automated systems, they have a tendency to set the sub level too low. I like bass, so I bumped the level up 5 db.

Keep in mind that I am not using an external amp for the four sets of speakers. I am just using the internal amp in the head unit. I took a drive yesterday just to listen to some good music, and I decided that although there would probably be some improvement if I added a good amp, that it really wasn't' necessary. I am very happy with the sound as is, and adding an amp would take time and money, and the improvement would not add that much for me.

I am not using high end speakers. I would consider them to be mid-range. But after the Pioneer did its magic, they sound high-end to me.

Therefore, the bottom line advise I would have for you is...don't fret over which is the absolute best speaker, amp etc. You have an excellent head unit which in my experience will compensate for various shortcomings of speakers. All speakers have their strengths and weaknesses. You will not find the perfect speaker. Also, I don't buy the "get rid of the rear speaker" stuff. I like an immersive sound. The Pioneer Premier DEH-P800PRS gave me an excellent front sound stage, better than I have ever had, but the entire interior of the car is filled with excellent sound. When I disengage the rear speakers, the sound collapses. Next time you are at a live concert, take note of where the sound is coming from. Not all of it is coming from the front. A good concert hall will immerse you in sound.

I recommend that you spend most of your speaker money on the fronts, and get some decent mid-range speakers for the rears. Spending a lot of money on the rears will not make that much of an improvement.

I suggest that you look into the PRS line of comps from Pioneer for the fronts...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...section=models

And look into the Premier line of Pioneer speakers for the rear.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...section=models

You don't need comps for the rear. A good two-way coaxial speaker will be just fine.

Pioneer speakers don't get a lot of lovin' in the car audio industry, but their newer line of speakers represents an excellent value and they sound very good. I have a friendly relationship with a local car audio installer, and after he heard my new system, he couldn't believe he was listening to Pioneer equipment. I think it changed his mind about the brand.

You can find Pioneer speakers nearly everywhere, and they are heavily discounted on internet sites. I only paid $80 US for a very nice set of 6 X 9s recently from Amazon, and I really like them. They replaced a set of Infinities that I had in my truck that were much more expensive, and I like the Pioneers better.

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, sound dampening is important. I had some serious vibration from various places in my car when listening to loud music. I spend about 4 hours of installation time and less than $100 on some Damplifier Pro. I just put it around my speakers and random areas on the door panels and rear deck. All of my vibration issues disappeared. You don't need to cover the entire car with the stuff. Just cover approx. 25% of the area where you have problems with vibration, and you are good to go.

There are numerous choices for sound dampening materials. They are all very similar. Buy it on price, not on the hype. Just stay away from the asphalt material. It smells and can loose adhesion in a hot environment.

These recommendations are based on your choice of the head unit that I am very familiar with. In my opinion, you made an excellent choice in that respect.

I understand that due to your location, you have limited choices compared to me.

Do what you want; it is your money and your system. I hope that I helped to make your decisions a little easier and that providing my experience can be helpful.

Good luck and enjoy the music.
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post #22 of 22 Old 10-14-2009, 05:11 PM
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You only need "rear fill" for ambience in car theater. Tweeters behind you in 2-channel car audio smears the sound stage.

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