148.2 @ 25Hz Term Lab VIDEO - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgIYV5UplrM



I was clipping horribly, especially from 15Hz-20Hz, I need 2 more HO alts and 4 more batteries

on my last few burps, after bottoming out a few times, it sounded funny. assumed that a coil or 3 or 4 was bent.













the bottom 2 subs are coil-on-top plate... stuck all the way out. Other 2 subs are scratchy... bent formers, unraveling coils.

Had 2 stuck subs and 2 blown subs on the last few burps and "Put ON"!!!

I made a video of candy shop last nite with the top 2 subs, left one is blown but still going, bottom 2 are seazed: coil on top plate... so I disconnected them from the amps. Got all four blue lights, amps are OK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvOgWxxG87E

"put on" 148.2

LP set to 31.5Hz, HP set to 20Hz... only wanted the low note. clipping is terrible, not bad for needing 2 more HO alts and 4 more batteries!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbdZFjT9Uo

132.5 15Hz 136.7 17Hz 140.3 18Hz 142.5 19Hz 143.8 20Hz 144.9 21Hz 145.7 22Hz

Terrible clipping, not as bad from 23Hz on up, but 15Hz-22Hz was massive clipping. So now I need 2 more HO alts and 4 more batteries.

4 Fi IB3 18's, 50 cubic feet, 20" diameter port 18" long for a 23Hz tune (more like 55 cubic feet 20Hz tune, but I'll do impedance sweeps later to get exact)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4QjI1wjej4

147.7 23Hz hair trick unintentional

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhVL0cqf79k

My resonant frequancy appeared to be 43Hz and 63Hz, according to the Tem Lab operator...but I think that was just harmonics he was going by. We never got to make a sweep, I wonder if I could get in the 50's up high where it gets real loud.

still in the box, pics taken from inside










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post #2 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 02:28 PM
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WOW !!!! And I thought I was bad.... HAA

That looks awful....
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post #3 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 02:33 PM
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Awww, man. You just had those installed too.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #4 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 02:41 PM
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i don't get it. you blew out your drivers with sine waves. is that the thing these days?

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post #5 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 02:53 PM
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What a waste of money.

Television: Mitsubishi WD65737 DLP
Processor: Emotiva UMC-200
Amps: Carver AV 806x/Behringer EP4000
Mains: DCM TimeFrame 600 Center: AT 453C
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post #6 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 03:05 PM
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Parametric EQ is your friend. You want the port to be doing the work. That's where your SPL comes from. Excursion is low there, so power handling goes way up, AND most importantly the woofer operates at the peak of it's SPL curve. EQ'd right you'll get significantly more SPL and not damage your woofers.

The first thing is to cut below tuning to keep excursion down where you get no output anyway, and this also frees up a lot of headroom in the amp. When the woofers are moving like crazy you're not producing SPL as they are out of phase with the port anyway, but these lower frequencies do take up valuable headroom in the amp. You're basically putting the gas to the floor in neutral. Highpass filter a few Hz below tuning prevents that. A 48dB LR filter will do the cut without pulling down output at tuning.

Then you want to control the excursion peak that is 1/2 octave above tuning. You'll want about a 6dB dip with a Q of 1.0 as a minimum. This cuts the power delivered at this point to 1/4 and keeps excursion way down there.

Then you want a 6dB boost at tuning with a Q of 2.0 or higher. You're now telling all the power to go at that point where the driver has the most power handling and the coil will stay in the center of the BL curve. Also remember that harmonics will increase output as well. Add another 6dB boost with same Q at 1 full octave above tuning.

This should allow you to gain 2-5dB depending on the woofers used, amps, and the variables in the vehicle. This is all assuming that the tuning frequency is chosen properly based on the transfer function of the vehicle. If you are fighting against the vehicle you're giving up a ton of free output.

Even in SPL competition you should never have mechanical failure if setup properly. This is always a case of user error for not controlling excursion. If setup properly you'll be able to vaporize the coil before damaging anything physically, but you should easily hit your best SPL's before doing that.

John

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post #7 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quite simply though if you're only hitting in the 147dB range with 4 18's in that kind of enclosure space with that kind of power, you're not doing things right. You should be reaching 160+ quite easily. Last summer we just threw an single AV15H into a 4cf enclosure in a 4runner. Did 146.1dB with about 1000W.



The same person who shot this video has the US certified record for Street Stock A with a single AV15 and 1000W at 144.8dB in a different vehicle with a box he just threw in. World record in this class is 147.1dB which was unverified but if he chooses to compete with the same vehicle again this year should easily surpass that.

John

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post #8 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 03:29 PM
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if i can build a horn that will blow that spl rating to dust, what would be in it for me? ;-)

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post #9 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 03:43 PM
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ya that's crazy, I hit 144.8db with one xxx 15 and 1500 watts in my old grand prix.
Something is wrong.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #10 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

What a waste of money.

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post #11 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 06:13 PM
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12 years ago I hit nearly 140 db with 3 jl 10w0's and only 600 watts. That was using a cassette player as my source. You should be doing better than you are with that much power and more and better drivers.
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post #12 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 06:17 PM
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You are not going to try to return those to ficar are you?
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post #13 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 06:21 PM
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How much of the 148 is @ 23hz and how much of it is distortion at other frequencies?
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post #14 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

Quite simply though if you're only hitting in the 147dB range with 4 18's in that kind of enclosure space with that kind of power, you're not doing things right. You should be reaching 160+ quite easily. Last summer we just threw an single AV15H into a 4cf enclosure in a 4runner. Did 146.1dB with about 1000W.



The same person who shot this video has the US certified record for Street Stock A with a single AV15 and 1000W at 144.8dB in a different vehicle with a box he just threw in. World record in this class is 147.1dB which was unverified but if he chooses to compete with the same vehicle again this year should easily surpass that.

John

at what frequency
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post #15 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

ya that's crazy, I hit 144.8db with one xxx 15 and 1500 watts in my old grand prix.
Something is wrong.

what frequency
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post #16 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

How much of the 148 is @ 23hz and how much of it is distortion at other frequencies?

look up my facebook and there's a prit out of my 1st test run at 23Hz, 145.1 dB or something, showing resonance/harmonics at 43Hz and 63Hz and severe clipping
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post #17 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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1st off I wasnt going for flat. I dont care what you go for. I want a fart box 20Hz-30Hz. Why else would I have my LP set to 31.5Hz 30dB/oct, and HP 20Hz 30dB/oct, with a 20-23Hz tune even considering cabin gain? Airspace as large as possible with the diameter port I used, for as much of a peak at tuning as possible?

Second, you guys started it. As did others at other forums I am banned at. Be respectful and courtious, you will receive it in return. Talk to me the way this thread ahas been, and thats what you got in return.
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post #18 of 34 Old 07-25-2010, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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WinISD:

All things being equal, 23Hz tune vs 33Hz tune, 33Hz gets a 12dB gain



All things equal, Fi Q (built for my application) vs IB3 ( "can't/won't work not designed to work in my application")



Even 23Hz vs 31Hz, 9dB gain

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post #19 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 03:12 AM
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can i have some money? i mean you like to throw it away soo... lol
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post #20 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 05:30 AM
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take it easy on the kid. everybody is free to waste money any way he likes.

just make sure you're always wearing earplugs bro.
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post #21 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post


Second, you guys started it. As did others at other forums I am banned at. Be respectful and courtious, you will receive it in return. Talk to me the way this thread ahas been, and thats what you got in return.

We were all trying to point out that while your spl is high, it should probably be higher. As in something may be wrong. As far as us not being respectful I think you need to hold off purchasing anymore materials for fart boxes and invest in a mirror. You were banned at the other forums for a reason. The only constant in the variable you presented was you. Everyone else is apparently wrong and rude while you're the saint and you're the one that gets banned. We were trying to help but I believe you just limited the help you will get from some people on here and that specifically includes me. Have fun with the box and don't worry about earplugs. They are way over rated and just a government conspiracy anyway.
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post #22 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

Second, you guys started it. As did others at other forums I am banned at. Be respectful and courtious, you will receive it in return. Talk to me the way this thread ahas been, and thats what you got in return.

You were the first person to name-call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

All things being equal, 23Hz tune vs 33Hz tune, 33Hz gets a 12dB gain

Even 23Hz vs 31Hz, 9dB gain

******. At what frequency is the gain?
*EDIT* see that doesn't make anyone feel good.

YID DIY
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post #23 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 10:10 AM
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LOL!

Let me get this straight...You are running these 800w rated subs on more than 2.5X the recommended power, bottomed the subs so hard that they came completely out of the gap and are resting on the top plate of 2 drivers and the other 2 have significant coil damage and you think more power is going to help? The drivers can't use anymore power. John is right that you should use the port for the output to keep excursion low but this also puts increased thermal stress on the vc and motor because there is less cooling and low impedance there. Your drivers will have the voice coils fried shortly with anymore input power.

You should be burping up around 35-40hz as Looneybomber pointed out. Look at your own winisd graphs. It looks like you did try that and overdrove the subs at the excursion peak above tuning.
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post #24 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 01:49 PM
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"Let me get this straight..."

that appears to be right. honestly, i don't get blowing up drives. it would be like putting an engine on a dyno and then running it with no oil at 12,000 rpm. yep, it will die.

in the interest of trying to say something worthy of discussion...for this type of spl 'drag racing', wouldn't it make some sense to structurally reinforce the vehicle? it seems that a lot of sound is lost in physical vibration of the windows, body panels, etc. has anybody measured such losses? also, isn't spl related to the volume of the area in which it is measured? i.e., you could increase the spl by simply putting the drives into a smaller vehicle. as for max spl, wouldn't it make sense to identify the point of standing wave, then tune the driver to that? if i recall correctly, folks were concerned that tesla was going to destroy manhattan because he was pumping the city with a small resonator that was tuned to the resonant frequency of the bedrock.

far more interesting than seeing the drivers blown up would be to see the resonant frequency of the car hit and the windows explode out of the vehicle.

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post #25 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 02:18 PM
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Second, you guys started it. As did others at other forums I am banned at. Be respectful and courtious, you will receive it in return. Talk to me the way this thread ahas been, and thats what you got in return.

Hmm, blame everyone but yourself, even though you admit being being banned before cuck coo.I dont know about anyone else, but with an attitude like yours Ive no interest in helping you with anything, not eve a fartbox.
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post #26 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 05:55 PM
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Not to fan the flames..... but LTDO2 you mentioned reinforcing the vehicle....apparently you didn't see the links to the precision implementation of the expanding foam and the liberal application of polyurethane adhesive. Structural engineers be forewarned you will be green with envy!! Add that to the detailed approach to aesthetics and you have no right to criticize this man/youngster! Unless you have made something that performs or looks better! Oh nevermind............... okay back to the car audio section with this thread!

You are returned to your regular scheduled programming.



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post #27 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

what frequency

28hz with a custom trunk box with the back seat taken out of a 1985 grand prix. I know it's not 25hz but still, somethings up.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #28 of 34 Old 07-26-2010, 08:23 PM
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Thread moved to the appropriate section.

The cheese fell off my cracker a long time ago...
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post #29 of 34 Old 07-27-2010, 03:12 PM
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Thread moved to the appropriate section.

good call.
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post #30 of 34 Old 07-27-2010, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

but still, somethings up.

Funny you say that.... I started looking at this project a bit weird ever since I saw the diameter of the port that was stuck in.... it looks awful big.... it looks TOO big.

I haven't seen the math behind a port size that big and for all I know it may be correct.... but still I have never seen a single port of that size. In fact usually when the port sizes get big enough they start going with smaller MULTIPLE ports

One other thing that bothers me is that there is no isolation between the 2 sets of subs. I'm not sure how these subs are connected but for each sub (or sub pair) that is connected to a different amp..... there should be a separate chamber, box, and port for that speaker set. (Each amp will have slightly different characteristics which may adversely affect the speakers being controlled by the OTHER amp).
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