(4) Custom Fi 18's (4) AP30001Ds 45 cubic feet 20" port @ 24Hz - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 03-09-2011, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I just purchased (4) custom FiCarAudio 18's from Jim, aka ZORA. Thank you very much Jim, I am very excited to see how these perform in the van! So here's what's in the van:
Alpine IVA-W505 DVD player. I purchased it with the intent of running an optical out cable for audio and Ai-NET cable to touch-screen interface with the crossover, Alpine PXA-H701.
All slopes are set to 30dB/oct going against the advice of CUBDENNO, who said "keep it even at 24dB!" sorry but I just can't make myself do it!
(4) Vifa XT25TG30 1" ring radiators doing a steep 66dB/oct slope 14kHz on up (yeah, I know, but thats how it is) off a Kicker SX500.2 parallel 2ohms with its 36dB/oct slope adding in the mix. Since 14k on up is such a small weak bandwidth, I had to add a PG line driver I got from my buddy in the windy city/
(2) CSS FR125S 4.5" full range XBL^2 drivers doing 710Hz-14k off a KX650.4 bridged 8 ohms
(4) Adire Audio Extremis 6.4's off (2) KX850.4's each bridged on a pair covering 80Hz-710Hz
(4) custom Fi 18's from Jim, who gave me one hell of a deal.. great guy to work with! Covering 200Hz on down. Too high? too bad! Overlaping the Extremis? yup! When I dropped the old subs down to 80Hz, I really missed the 80Hz-200Hz content from the subs. When I brought the Extremis up to 200Hz from 80Hz, I hated it! They sound different coming from the different drivers (they being 80Hz-200Hz) and I miss them when i remove either!

Enclosure is 45 cubic feet, 20" diameter port 20" long for a 24Hz tune! Subs are HPed at 6dB/oct at 20Hz for protection.

120-150 cans of Great Stuff expanding foam..so glad I didn't do all 2x4's!

Toggle switches to disable the different bands: I can kill the tweets, 4.5's, 7"ers, and subs all separately, run any combination... just subs and tweets, just mids, whatever at the flip of a switch!

The subs:

Fs = 23.7 Hz
Re = 1.8 Ohms
Qms = 7.22
Qes = 0.38
Qts = 0.35
Cms = 130.0 uM/N
Mms = 300.0 grams
Sd = 1217.0 cmsq
Vas = 279.4 liters
SPL = 92.1 dB
X-max = 40mm
Power = 1,500+ watts

The top plate is 7/8", triple magnet, 2 ohm flatwound coils, single spider (8" I think), paper/kevlar cone, santoprene surround.
The 40mm might actually be X-mech one-way. A throw of 28-30mm one-way with the coil in the gap?











I LOVED the IB3s. Weak motored subs have troubles being loaded with ports... rather than peaking at tuning, my FR responce wasn't where I wanted it. I had to PEQ heavily to bring the 20Hz-30Hz region up to fight the port. Don't get it wrong, the IB3s had enough motor to bottom out even at tuning easily, its the FR curve. So i got bigger motored subs like everyone said I should have all along to get more 20Hz-30Hz rather than peaking at 30Hz-50Hz like I was. I LOVED the IB3s and plan on keeping them in my towers!
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post #2 of 47 Old 03-14-2011, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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The first sub should get here this week, when it does I'll have plenty of pics then free air break in vids off an EP4000. Until then, here's the latest walk though vid I did a few weeks ago showing the entire system when I had the IB3s in at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmfRbDllCQA
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post #3 of 47 Old 03-18-2011, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much zora, pics do not do them justice... they are just ridiculous HUGE! Why would anyone want ULTRAs, notnyt? Are you INSANE?! lol jk jk.











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post #4 of 47 Old 03-18-2011, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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just nuts, completely changes my perspective on photos of big subs. no way I'd put BTLs, ULTRAs, or Wardens in my wall or HT. notnyt, I take it back... putting these in the towers? IDK... theyd be directly connected to 2"x4"s or side boards, but wow...IDK... and youre nuts having the 18's you have. nuts.















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post #5 of 47 Old 03-18-2011, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know if I can hear it surpassing Xmax or if it's the hard plastic dustcap against the air behind it, but around 1/2 way it gets noisy. Not bad/broken noisy, just motor noise or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mehzc_rQGkY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GPsTeiaeSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2deMbYoXgg
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post #6 of 47 Old 03-20-2011, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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holding these just isn't the same as the IB3s and all the other subs I've done, so here's the break in rig I built for the cute little guys. Again thanks to zora, he has been an amazing seller all the way.





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post #7 of 47 Old 03-20-2011, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Im already getting lots of comments on the break in vids and I havent even posted them up yet, so I know when I do I'm going to get a lot more of this but: it is NOT bottoming out. I've been running subs free air full excursion as well as running subs full excursion loaded in enclosures for over 10 years. I generally know the difference between tinsel slap, air slapping the dustcap being forced through a pole vent, spiders pulling tight, rocking, scraping, bent coil, coil on bottom plate, cone on spider landing, surrounds pulling tight. I am no expert but I am no novice (despite loving to piss everyone off and doing things different, MY way not YOUR way )

Anyway, yes the sub is very noisy and I haven't figured out what it is yet or whether it will be an issue loaded or not, but here they are

the EP4000 doesnt like a 2ohm load, even with just 1 sub free air

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwE5_Hn3N44

5 minutes into it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIU612XAqZk
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post #8 of 47 Old 03-20-2011, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Can an EP4000 be clipping without the clip indicating lights coming on? They are set to go on...Ive done it enough times with the IB3s to know, but maybe with it being at 2ohms it "doesn't know"? The sub is really out there in excursion before it gets too noisy, the amp gets warm, and the master volume is at -11dB which is 4dB louder than I ever have it and 14dB louder than I usually have it. Master volume being that high with 1/2 the impedance has me wondering, though even if I bring it to -9dB and it really gets loud, the clip lights still dont even tickle.
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post #9 of 47 Old 03-20-2011, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 47 Old 03-20-2011, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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!!OFFENSIVE LYRICS!!

Now I am at the stage of just making a bunch of vids. Lights actually dimming from one EP4000 on one sub free air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r47y7r4sLmE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb6dCtjL58c
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post #11 of 47 Old 03-22-2011, 06:19 PM
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So how do you like the new subs, Jordan?

Sam Carter
Custom Sounds NW
Custom enclosures, service and installation of mobile electronics and home theater equipment.
Featured in CAE
My Home Page
DIY Dual 18" Sub Project (MK II)

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post #12 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_carter View Post

So how do you like the new subs, Jordan?

love it Sam, the other three get shipped Friday, then down the road...two more!
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post #13 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
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The new Fi/Blueprint Audio driver gets a pass so the other three get shipped Friday.
Nate at http://www.excessiveamperage.com/ hooked me up with Mario at brackets4u@yahoo.com so I will be getting my second alt added soon! I will be pulling my again failing Iraggi alternator that Domanic Iraggi ripped me off on, Nate will repair it and let me know if it's even "HO".
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post #14 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #15 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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post #17 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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post #18 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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post #19 of 47 Old 03-24-2011, 10:34 PM
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Jordan- I have found you can link your facebook photos onto other sites by going to the image in facebook, right clicking it, and clicking on 'copy image link' or 'copy link location' depending on your browser. Then you just use the 'img' code on either side- the same as you would for any other picture. Figured this might save you some bandwidth on photobucket... I cant wait to hear your impressions of the new subs in action. I just wish we lived a bit closer, so I could demo these beasts!

Sam Carter
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post #20 of 47 Old 03-25-2011, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_carter View Post

Jordan- I have found you can link your facebook photos onto other sites by going to the image in facebook, right clicking it, and clicking on 'copy image link' or 'copy link location' depending on your browser. Then you just use the 'img' code on either side- the same as you would for any other picture. Figured this might save you some bandwidth on photobucket... I cant wait to hear your impressions of the new subs in action. I just wish we lived a bit closer, so I could demo these beasts!

well no sense uploading twice then! Im gonna give that a shot, thanks sam! Dude, Id drive ya around all day so we can bang the **** out of those subs!
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post #21 of 47 Old 03-25-2011, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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post #22 of 47 Old 03-30-2011, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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never been able to take a pic of the whole wall because the seats are in the way but I am doing some touch-ups and mods to the wall for the new subs so I have the seat pulled out. I can't get the passenger seat out, though, it has a pull out storage box mounted to the floor beneith it, I can't get it out, I need to get it out to get to the seat bolts. She ain't pretty, but since when has my work ever been?

Subs arrive tomorrow, will do some free air break in on the EPs then away I go.

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post #23 of 47 Old 03-30-2011, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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got the outter 2 layers where the subs mount textured and painted, wont have time to paint the wall...screw it I'm droppen them in just like that



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post #24 of 47 Old 03-31-2011, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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cut up 4 old mounting gaskets since the counter sunk holes were cut to fit without gaskets, and not using gaskets led to air leaks



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post #25 of 47 Old 03-31-2011, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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the little guys arrived today, currently breaking in two bridged series 4 ohm of an EP4000, she is so much happier at 4 ohms... pushing two easily and barely even warming at all

Jim did an excellent job packing them up, all three appear to be MINT.

1st one is installed while I break in the rest







so I had another great idea... why build a break in rig, why not bend the shipping crate?





no blurr but theyre movin

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post #26 of 47 Old 03-31-2011, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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one of the EPs has acted weird since Ive gotten them, one has brighter LED lights, clips a tocuh easier than the other, and gets warmer than the other. As expected during break in one started to get wartm so I toggled them as planned, letting them take turns. The "bad" one, when I turn the PC volume down to 0 every so many minutes to let it cool off, seems to have a loud BUZZ, not necessarily 60Hz or a grounding loop, maybe so actually but like a leaking cap when it gets warm? When I shut it off then back on it stops. No clipping lights, seems fine, just after going full bore for a while when it gets warm, not hot, when I remove the tone one remains

anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4fiS81Y8ho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQA8NecTAA
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post #27 of 47 Old 03-31-2011, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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well what to say what to say. I was wrong? Everyone else was right? Wait... Ive said that countless times.

These subs are wicked in the enclosure/tuning/power requirement I ended up with. This is me still sliding in my excuses. Listen, I started off with 110 cubic feet and a 15Hz tuning. My towers dont load the subs hardly at all, I barely get any excursion reduction at tuning and I get close to peak SPL at tuning. That wasn't true in the final result of the van, but of course not, 45 cubes is a lot more restrictive and loads a TON more... then theres the 24Hz thing vs 15Hz. Not even going to try to explain myself away there.

Also, I had never done a wall before, I had never even done a double baffle or a recessed/countersunk mount. I had this great Idea of making the two outter rings a tiny bit too tight since I used 3.5" screws that should pull the sub into the counter sink making it anti-theaft, even more air tight ( I didnt use gaskets...big no-no) and to support the "weight" of the subs. Now that I have "real" subs I realize even these pale in comparison to 70lb plus drivers.

So I fixed the air leaks as best I could... I chizzeled out the outter two layers and I chopped up some mounting gaskets so ive got rubber seals now. On music air actually blows through my port! I believe before, my enclosure was leaking around the sub cutouts, making my port less effective, and as effective as it still was...well the IB3s weren't strong enough to fight it.

So anyway, with the 110 cubes 15Hz tune I had a nice flat predicted responce with a big spike from 10Hz-20Hz like initially wanted. But ending in 45 cubes 24Hz, I had a nasty peak. I tried to fight it by lowering the sub level and maxing out the EQ at 25Hz... still leaving the 30Hz on down lacking, but also killing the 50Hz on up material.

So I shut the EQ off before I fired up the new subs. Already they were AMAZING. Much louder and much flatter, much better sounding INSTANTLY. I could hear the difference the first 5 clicks before I even gave her anything. I drove around a while, loving it. Then I dropped the crossover to 80Hz. Ah, there we go. I was overcompensating the EQ by raising it to 200Hz. Now there's more separation from the Extremis. Thats what made me do it, the Extremis had disappeared with these subs. I thought about it. Dropped it. Much better.

Well with that done, I cranked the sub level back up. WHOA! Now were talkin!

So kids, dont listen to me, IB3s arent designed for even large vented enclosures. My towers are proving themselves, they do pretty good, but they have SIX times the airspace as my van.

So far i am a happy guy. I am no Steve Meade or any of the other 4 18" setups I have seen vids of. But when I get my 2nd alt in, I'll be doing much better. Even the IB3s could get loud as hell for short periods but voltage drop was nasty. These get louder with less excursion having sealed the mounts. These get louder continuous since they can handle the power and theyre more efficient.

I know, I know, you were right, i was wrong. Now Fi doesnt even want to talk to me.. what do you do. I led the masses astray. Well i was a hater, I couldnt afford Qs or Maelstroms or DPs.
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post #28 of 47 Old 04-04-2011, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess what I am getting at, is I would like to upgarde again down the road to some 18" Death Penalty's or something else with HUGE powerful motors to give me a HUGE peak around tuning, dip from 35Hz-55Hz, and then be loud as hell again way up high (55Hz-80Hz plus some)

Nick has awesome prices which is why I keep refering to Incriminator Audio. Well the subs I just upgraded to have a tripple slug just like the DPs but MUCH bigger top plates and bottom plates.

I can not get ahold of the Thiele/Small parameters to compare, so off the top of YOUR head, would a DP with a smaller looking motor but known for being like a BTL and other huge power subs, would I have more of the U shape I am looking for?

I am already wanting to EQ the new subs, they are LOUD as HELL now, but a little painful in the 35Hz-55Hz range and still lacking in the sub 35Hz range and above 55Hz range for MY tastes. My responce should be pretty flat now, as its almost as if the new subs were designed for my enclosure for someone desiring SQ/flat... but thats not what I want.

Really, if money were no object, IDK if I'd even go RE Audio XXX anymore... now that I fixed my airleak problem, I am so much louder with less excursion and more air comes from my port. TC Sounds LMS ULTRA 5400s are now my dream subs, but I can get four 18" DPs for similar to one ULTRA.








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post #29 of 47 Old 04-04-2011, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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the fun never stops!





















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post #30 of 47 Old 04-08-2011, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Apparently I was lying my ass off! When I first dropped these new bad boys in I brought the EQ back to 0 but left the crossover at 200Hz. Right away it was a problem, so I dropped them to 80Hz and that alowd me to raise the sub level and get LOOOOUUUD.

Well I think they were still breaking in, I couldn't go too long free air in the house because everything was falling and spilling... the TV was hanging by the power cord and boxes of pictures were spilling, it was just a real loud mess that could have started causing damage.

Well today I brought the crossover back up to 200 and I am in HEAVEN! The problem? Current gets DUMPED into these monsters! Now that i am broken in, still my voltage drops... it's like watching the SPL meter...when the subs hit, it goes from 14.8 down to 12V instantly and back up and down with the beat. In these videos this is me taking it easy, only drops from say 14.3 to 13ish?

These subs ROCK, thanks again zora! I just need to get the money together to get the bracket adaptors and belt. These things can get insanely loud when I crank it for a few seconds and watch my voltage drop well below 12V but I know I am just asking for trouble. I'll leave them at 200 where I like them but try my bestest to take it easy until the other alt is added.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ORyJd9d5Ms
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