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post #31 of 40 Old 05-03-2011, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

I honestly don't know enough about the L3 line.

Not trying to start a heated discussion with anybody but let's be clear on one thing, and I want you to read very carefully because this is where a lot of people get hung up.

It truly does not matter what brand of sub for music you buy. period.

What you ask? Impossible! No way! Blasphemer!

Seriously though. Disregard all voodoo golden eared subjective buzzwords.

AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE WOOFER IN A PROPERLY DESIGNED ENCLOSURE AND USE AN AMOUNT OF POWER THAT DOES NOT SURPASS THE WOOFERS CAPABILITY, IT WILL PERFORM WELL! again period. (different woofer designs can yield better efficiency, better low end extention, lower distortion and or better power handling as well as different enclosure types will yield different results in car. See what I just said about different woofers.) Why do I keep bringing this up? Because I don't want you to spend your money unwisely and get caught up in someone's dislike of a particular brand based on nothing but heresay. I guarantee pick any sub and we can make it do whatever you want within the woofers capabilities. Especially in a car. Gotta love cabin gain.

The woofer enclosure you linked to should do fine. It is ported and I am unsure of tuning so am unsure of SSF settings. You will have to see when/if you get it.

JMII hit on a really good point, the 12 should be a little more louder than a 10. will it be audible to you? not sure.

Remember that single woofer on say 100 watts will put out X decibels.

doubling the number of woofers on 100 watts yields a 3 decibel gain (in a perfect world. I know it's not but pretend)

doubling the power on a single woofer will yield a 3 decibel gain.

doubling the number of woofers to 2 and the power to 200 watts, yields a 6 decibel gain!

Just wanted to expand on JMII's explanation.

which enclosure btw? That did clear some stuff uo.
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post #32 of 40 Old 05-03-2011, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Oops dbl post
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post #33 of 40 Old 05-03-2011, 07:35 PM
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post #34 of 40 Old 05-03-2011, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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So the kenwood amp over the Polk or Alpine?
If I am running a single 12 with max 800w and rms of 400, do I need a 1800 max amp? Isn't it more or less the RMS rating that I am looking at? I'm assuming it's a good amp for future use also?

I have pretty much convinced myself on one 12" for now.
I'm pretty confident on the Kenwood Deck (Kenwood KDC-HD548U) unless someone else can find a different brand with the preamp out at BB for under $180. I believe my friend told me the install kit for decks is under $10 so that works. Just couldn't find it on their site.

I have a new contender lol. Forgot to look these up the other day. BB does have this in stock, I could throw it in a ported box they sell. I don't know if it's any better than the Kicker L3, but the RMS is higher and so is the max wattage.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-...ofer&cp=1&lp=2

Thinking that sub with this enclosure now ($33)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Fierce+A...ustomerreviews

And possibly a different amp like this, (maybe overkill)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-...ofer&cp=1&lp=1

Really leaning on that Type R now. I did some reading and it seems to be a quality sub for the price. I think the enclosure will work for a temp until I figure out what I want to build. It's only $33 anyway.

I somewhat understand the amps now. If I have a sub that requires 600watts RMS with 1200 Peak, I need an amp with at least 1200 peak and..600Rms at 2ohms? or what ohm should I be looking at?

Here is my list so far,
Alpine Type R (SWR-1243D) $115
Kenwood 1800w KAC-9105D $158
Fierce Audio - XED 12" Single Ported Subwoofer Enclosure $33
Kenwood Deck KDC-HD548U $110-115
Install Kit (under $20)
Amp Kit (not sure of price yet, under $50)
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post #35 of 40 Old 05-04-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE WOOFER IN A PROPERLY DESIGNED ENCLOSURE AND USE AN AMOUNT OF POWER THAT DOES NOT SURPASS THE WOOFERS CAPABILITY, IT WILL PERFORM WELL! again period. (different woofer designs can yield better efficiency, better low end extention, lower distortion and or better power handling as well as different enclosure types will yield different results in car.

+1 the most important thing is the enclosure. The sub only sounds as good as the box its in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zake202 View Post

I could throw it in a ported box they sell.

I somewhat understand the amps now. If I have a sub that requires 600watts RMS with 1200 Peak, I need an amp with at least 1200 peak and..600Rms at 2ohms? or what ohm should I be looking at?

Like cub said above, matching the woofer to the box is CRITICAL, you can't just throw a given sub into a ported box and assume good results, especially if the sub is designed for a sealed box.

I tend to avoid subs that don't give specific enclosure recommendations for this very reason. Then I model them in WinISD to see the predicted output, its not perfect but it allows a quick comparison. Due to the difficult nature (and generally larger size) of ported boxes I only build sealed ones, and stick with woofers optimized for them (Polk & Image Dynamics come to mind).

Don't worry about peak rates, they are generally marketing fluff anyway... try to match up based on RMS power.

As for the ohms it can get complicated depending on the number of subs X number of voice coils. You can wire subs up in several configurations to create various ohm loads. The main rules are: 1) the power is always divided among the total number of subs and 2) you can't drive a lower ohm load then your amp is rated (stable) to push.

So if your amp is rated to drive 2 ohms then you want one dual 4 ohm voice coil sub. The same amp with two subs would require a dual 8 ohm voice coils. In both examples you'll use a parallel wiring scheme.

My equipment list is here. Playstation Network ID = jmii ...that's JM roman numeral 2
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post #36 of 40 Old 05-04-2011, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMII View Post

+1 the most important thing is the enclosure. The sub only sounds as good as the box its in!



Like cub said above, matching the woofer to the box is CRITICAL, you can't just throw a given sub into a ported box and assume good results, especially if the sub is designed for a sealed box.

I tend to avoid subs that don't give specific enclosure recommendations for this very reason. Then I model them in WinISD to see the predicted output, its not perfect but it allows a quick comparison. Due to the difficult nature (and generally larger size) of ported boxes I only build sealed ones, and stick with woofers optimized for them (Polk & Image Dynamics come to mind).

Don't worry about peak rates, they are generally marketing fluff anyway... try to match up based on RMS power.

As for the ohms it can get complicated depending on the number of subs X number of voice coils. You can wire subs up in several configurations to create various ohm loads. The main rules are: 1) the power is always divided among the total number of subs and 2) you can't drive a lower ohm load then your amp is rated (stable) to push.

So if your amp is rated to drive 2 ohms then you want one dual 4 ohm voice coil sub. The same amp with two subs would require a dual 8 ohm voice coils. In both examples you'll use a parallel wiring scheme.

I linked above the enclosure I was thinking for a temp. It may not match exactly but I did some research on it and people have put that sub into it with good results.
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post #37 of 40 Old 05-04-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zake202 View Post

So the kenwood amp over the Polk or Alpine?
If I am running a single 12 with max 800w and rms of 400, do I need a 1800 max amp? Isn't it more or less the RMS rating that I am looking at? I'm assuming it's a good amp for future use also? Disregard the "Max" rating. It's a 900 watt at 2 ohms amplifier (Kenwood) I forgot to mention I was retracting the Polk as its a class AB amp (not as efficient). As for Kenwood or Alpine, you WILL NOT hear a 100 watt difference. SO if you want the alpine just be aware of that and the fact that odds are it is more expensive.I have pretty much convinced myself on one 12" for now.
I'm pretty confident on the Kenwood Deck (Kenwood KDC-HD548U) unless someone else can find a different brand with the preamp out at BB for under $180. I believe my friend told me the install kit for decks is under $10 so that works. Just couldn't find it on their site.

I have a new contender lol. Forgot to look these up the other day. BB does have this in stock, I could throw it in a ported box they sell. I don't know if it's any better than the Kicker L3, but the RMS is higher and so is the max wattage.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-...ofer&cp=1&lp=2Should be fine. Just note it is a dual 4 ohm coil. So wire it in parallel. You have a 2 ohm load.Thinking that sub with this enclosure now ($33)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Fierce+A...ustomerreviews No experience with this enclosure. No idea of tuning freq. Be aware that you will need to play with the subsonic filter to protect your sub.And possibly a different amp like this, (maybe overkill)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-...ofer&cp=1&lp=1 See above.Really leaning on that Type R now. I did some reading and it seems to be a quality sub for the price. I think the enclosure will work for a temp until I figure out what I want to build. It's only $33 anyway.

I somewhat understand the amps now. If I have a sub that requires 600watts RMS with 1200 Peak, I need an amp with at least 1200 peak and..600Rms at 2ohms? or what ohm should I be looking at?

Here is my list so far,
Alpine Type R (SWR-1243D) $115
Kenwood 1800w KAC-9105D $158
Fierce Audio - XED 12" Single Ported Subwoofer Enclosure $33
Kenwood Deck KDC-HD548U $110-115
Install Kit (under $20)
Amp Kit (not sure of price yet, under $50)

Make sure it is at least a true 4 gauge kit. I would get a 1/0 kit to allow future amp upgrading. Never skimp on the electrical. anything else you can.

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post #38 of 40 Old 05-04-2011, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

Make sure it is at least a true 4 gauge kit. I would get a 1/0 kit to allow future amp upgrading. Never skimp on the electrical. anything else you can.

Yea I plan to make sure.

Do you think the Kenwood amp will work for the Alpine along with future subs?

I think I understand how most of it works with the 900w @ 2ohms etc. If that sub only requires 600w RMS I should have more than plenty coming from it.

That's the only thing I'm not 100% confident on. The Sub deck etc I feel I'm good on now.

Looking at what BB has to offer on amp install kits, this one seems to have better reviews at other sites.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Kicker+-...0kit&cp=1&lp=5

Not sure if it's any better made than the red one. for some reason the red one lists a max wattage of 600. *shrugs*

One thing I'm worried about is if I will need a capacitor running that amp+600rms? I guess I will find out when I have it all going though.
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post #39 of 40 Old 05-06-2011, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Got all of my items today.

Got the sub in the enclosure and will be installing everything within this week.

Thanks for all the help everyone.
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post #40 of 40 Old 05-07-2011, 10:11 AM
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good luck!

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