Audio Newbie Sub System Suggestions Needed - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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First things first: Budget cap is about $1200, possibly a little over, and trunk space does not matter. The time it will take to obtain the components is not overly important, but the shorter the wait the better. I understand the want to avoid new threads if possible, but as there are no components purchased I would like a wide array of suggestions.

I have been looking to upgrade the sound system in my 2009 Ford Fusion SE with a sub or two. In my research I have found that I honestly do not know what to look for, so I decided to take my questions to the experts (yes, you). I am looking for a combination of subs, an amp, and an enclosure that will provide both high quality and as much power as possible while staying in budget and not sacrificing that quality.

My favorite for a sub so far is the JBL W15GTi MkII, which I understand to be very high quality and very powerful, but I do not understand what factors are most important in determining quality and power. Any information in that regard would be appreciated, as well as other suggestions that would meet these requirements.

As far as amps go, my knowledge is that they are not created equal. Any thoughts for a high quality amp to match a specific recommended sub would be appreciated, along with a way to get the power needed to the amp (battery suggestions).

When it comes to enclosures, my understanding is that sealed enclosures provide a higher quality while ported enclosures provide power. I would like to know how much of an effect the enclosure has, and an enclosure recommendation to maximize quality and power of the system, whether it be a specific recommendation or a suggestion to go with a certain manufacturer.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I am looking forward to seeing the suggestions and hearing the results!
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post #2 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 03:12 PM
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music tastes? be honest

upgrading anything else like head unit, interior speakers? amping the interior speakers?

average listening levels? be honest

Nice sub, I almost got 2 of them for my car. Just did not have the space to adequately give them for an enclosure.

Sorry, porting is the way to go. Sealed is easier sure. And more forgiving. What people call better SQ is the natural roll off of the sealed enclosure coupled to the natural rise of cabin gain (the natural boost of low frequencies in vehicles). The reason is that the low bass frequencies don't overwhelm the upper bass frequencies. Honestly give me ported with the increased efficiency and extension and let me eq out the hump in the frequency response. Lets my amp work less hard. To me it's better to have it and not need it then try to boost the hell out of the sub and over work the amp.

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post #3 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 03:33 PM
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This is what I run
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-642
Here are some decent non car audio branded subs. Great motor designs, low distortion
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-420

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-469

Some car audio branded that are not the main stream but really good solid brands.
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/s...SA%252d15.html

https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraud...iew.shopscript

http://www.dcsoundlab.com/woofers.html


Obviously there are the common polk, JL Audio, Rockford Fosgate etc...

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post #4 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 03:42 PM
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Amplifiers are easy now days. Almost a commodity part. The key will be to find the power you want in the size you have available. I would look at class D amplifiers as they are the most efficient thereby the easiest on your electrical system. I, my son, my brother and several friends run Sundown Audio. Great amplifiers, well designed, not flashy looks, make rated+ power and great efficiency.

I also have significant experience with JL amps, kenwood, JBL, Phoenix gold, RF. etc...

I would go ahead and get the WGTi 15 and get a mono amp that makes 1kw at say 2 ohms.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-POWER-AM...item35b46b6c3d

That is an awesome amp. I want the bigger one but this one is a true beast!

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post #5 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

music tastes? be honest

upgrading anything else like head unit, interior speakers? amping the interior speakers?

average listening levels? be honest

Nice sub, I almost got 2 of them for my car. Just did not have the space to adequately give them for an enclosure.

Sorry, porting is the way to go. Sealed is easier sure. And more forgiving. What people call better SQ is the natural roll off of the sealed enclosure coupled to the natural rise of cabin gain (the natural boost of low frequencies in vehicles). The reason is that the low bass frequencies don't overwhelm the upper bass frequencies. Honestly give me ported with the increased efficiency and extension and let me eq out the hump in the frequency response. Lets my amp work less hard. To me it's better to have it and not need it then try to boost the hell out of the sub and over work the amp.

I listen mostly to rap, but appreciate songs in everything but classic and country. I will not be upgrading anything else, and as for listening levels, i like it when my seat vibrates. A lot.

On another note, do you know of any other amps that are cheaper but still provide the high wattage/are well made? Where would you go for a ported enclosure and what would you do for the power to the amp? I am certainly not an electrician, I do not know how to wire it or the kind of power source that would be needed.
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post #6 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 06:26 PM
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OK,

1200 bucks to encompass:
Subs
Amp
Wiring kit
Accessories

No other upgrades (I think you are going to be sorry in this route but OK it's your money.)

Amp:Audiopipe. I have not used it, but I know of those that have. Solid power.
http://www.amazon.com/AUDIOPIPE-AP15.../dp/B002RE87UC

Subs:get 2 of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-SWR1243...802811&sr=1-14

This enclosure if you can't make your own. I am unsure of tuning or how well these do as far as build quality.
http://www.amazon.com/Atrend-E12Dsv-...802811&sr=1-11

Wiring kit: You should never ever skimp on your wiring for power. Your sub amp will suck some serious amperage from your battery. You need to get that voltage and current with the least amount of loss. This amp kit will alow this plus when you finally come around to my way of thinking and add another amp for your other speakers, you can without ripping the other wiring out.\\
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDe...rodID=KFX-PK20

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post #7 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so if I went with the WGTi for 600, used the audiopipe amp for 180, threw in approx. 100 for a better enclosure (unless you want to tell me how to make one), 130 for the wiring, that is very close to 1000, which is good. Considering that I have the "premium" sound system, and the only thing that stops getting louder after I turn the volume past 5, what would you recommend? I actually find that the speakers, not including the subs, maintain undistorted quality to beyond what I require, because while I love bass as loud as I can get it, higher frequencies bother me. As long as lyrics are clear, I am happy. If you can convince me, so be it
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post #8 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 08:28 PM
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It's not the "what you like" part. it's that with a kilowatt on a sub, you are looking at an easy 140db of bass. That will drown out the rest of the system.

The only issue is that you are going to have to spend some money on tying into the factory system for the signal to the sub amp. Most factory systems have a volume dependent EQ. The louder you turn the volume up, the more attenuated the bass is. it keeps everything from distorting and saves the lives of a lot of speakers.

My reasoning is based on I have a now 19 year old step son. We have been doing systems together for him and his friends for 4 years. All the friends who have gone your route have come back because there is simply nothing but bass. . So after a simple 2-4 channel amp upgrade, they are usually happy.

I suggest calling crutchfield and seeing if they have an adapter that will allow you to keep the factory system and easily add a sub.

As for enclosure building, if you have access to some tools, i can recommend a guy who will design a box based on your wants equipment and vehicle. he will send you the blueprints. he charges 50 bucks but in my opinion, is worth it. every dimension is shown. it makes the boxes really easy to make.

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post #9 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, first, what you have said is completely logical and I understand what you said. However, I (once again) don't know how to do the wiring. So lets assume I get the WGTi, an enclosure that I made with a diagram, the Audiopipe amp, and the wiring. You are saying that I could possibly get an adapter that would allow me to add in the sub AND allow me to get a 2-4 channel amp for the rest of the speakers (which I also don't know how to wire).^10
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post #10 of 19 Old 08-19-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armeggadon View Post
OK, first, what you have said is completely logical and I understand what you said. However, I (once again) don't know how to do the wiring. So lets assume I get the WGTi, an enclosure that I made with a diagram, the Audiopipe amp, and the wiring. You are saying that I could possibly get an adapter that would allow me to add in the sub AND allow me to get a 2-4 channel amp for the rest of the speakers (which I also don't know how to wire).^10
lol!! And I expect you to solve world hunger and cold fusion.

It's late. Will continue tomorrow.

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post #11 of 19 Old 08-20-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armeggadon View Post

OK, first, what you have said is completely logical and I understand what you said. However, I (once again) don't know how to do the wiring. So lets assume I get the WGTi, an enclosure that I made with a diagram, the Audiopipe amp, and the wiring. You are saying that I could possibly get an adapter that would allow me to add in the sub AND allow me to get a 2-4 channel amp for the rest of the speakers (which I also don't know how to wire).^10

If you keep the factory premium system, you are going to have to somehow get the audio signal from the factory head unit to the sub amplifier so that it can do what amplifiers do which is be a voltage gain device. Now there are companies that have nice little stand alone boxes that do this but of coarse this will cost money. Some are easy to use some more difficult. No matter which route you go, someone is going to have to tie in to your factory system and someone is going to have to run the power wire, signal cables remote turn on wire and ground the amp. As well as wire up the sub enclosure sub and amp speaker wire connection.

Now, as you have said that you do not have the knowledge to do this and appear hesitant to try (I understand this. No one wants to screw up their car) you are going to have to most likely find and pay someone to do this.

I suggest, while the JBL WGTi sub is an awesome sub and one of my favorites, it's output will not be audibly more than those two alpine subs I suggested. Plus getting the Alpines saves you some money for installation. Spending half your budget on a sub is not the way to go in this case. At least not for an in vehicle seat vibration and cabin pressurization machine.

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post #12 of 19 Old 08-20-2011, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

I suggest, while the JBL WGTi sub is an awesome sub and one of my favorites, it's output will not be audibly more than those two alpine subs I suggested. Plus getting the Alpines saves you some money for installation. Spending half your budget on a sub is not the way to go in this case. At least not for an in vehicle seat vibration and cabin pressurization machine.

What about this?

http://www.techronics.com/caraudio_1...ign-Motor.html

And when I said I like to feel my seat vibrate, that was as far as volume only. If you would prefer the WGTi to the Alpines, then my best bet is that I would to. I might like to add that the budget is self imposed and only to please my parents, I would be happy to drop more to get a better system, so getting under budget is essentially for planning purposes. What I mean to say is that if after spending 1200 on parts I still need to pay X to get those parts installed, I wouldn't think twice about it, my parents would.
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post #13 of 19 Old 08-20-2011, 09:35 PM
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If you can get it for that price and actually receive it, then fantastic. That is a great price. If you get your sub.



I run a single 15 and love it. That particular 15 will pound and do it while sounding very clean.The thing is, based on your musical tastes, you can do very well with the Alpines. They will play about as clean, be more efficient, work in a smaller box, and in my estimation will run about the same distortion levels as they will suffer from less power compression and less cone travel on the same power.

Remember also that this will be mounted in your trunk. Another reason to put your money to work elsewhere than a super sub.

In the end, it's your money. You get what you want. Just take what I said as advice and nothing more. I don't want you to have buyer's remorse and have you always wondering if it would have been better with the JBL.

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post #14 of 19 Old 08-21-2011, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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What about 2 WGTi's and a bandpass box? If you think that would be good and could recommend an amp to handle them and where to get the enclosure I would be delighted.
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post #15 of 19 Old 08-21-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by armeggadon View Post

What about 2 WGTi's and a bandpass box? If you think that would be good and could recommend an amp to handle them and where to get the enclosure I would be delighted.

My single reflex for a single 15 takes over 8 cubic feet. its huge it barely fits through the opening. plus i have no trunk. that audiopipe would work fine on 2 of the jbl's

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post #16 of 19 Old 08-21-2011, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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That sounds great! I guess the best way to ask for advice now is to ask what you would have done if you had gotten the 2 WGTi's for your car, everything was still factory and you had, say, $1000 left (including an upgrade for at least an amp for the rest of the system).
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post #17 of 19 Old 08-21-2011, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armeggadon View Post

That sounds great! I guess the best way to ask for advice now is to ask what you would have done if you had gotten the 2 WGTi's for your car, everything was still factory and you had, say, $1000 left (including an upgrade for at least an amp for the rest of the system).

I would either go with a 5 cubic foot ported enclosure common chamber slot ported tuned to 30 hertz with 48 in squared of port area to keep the port velocities down or run infinite baffle to save space.

I would take measurements of my trunk and most importantly my trunk opening. Then give the maximum dimensions that would still fit the trunk opening and send them to Pete at pwk for a set of blue prints. That would be 50 bucks.

I would contact a couple of cabinet makers that are local to you once you had the plans and ask for a quote to have the enclosure made. Should be a 2-3 hour job for a cabinet maker. Say 150 bucks tops and that may include the material. Not sure.

Spend a 130 bucks or so for the wiring kit

buy this amp

http://www.amazon.com/Audiopipe-1800...ata/B002RE87WA

The rest I would call all the local installers and get quotes for the install of the wiring and interfacing with the factory system. If they just do a quick and dirty tie in to the factory system, expect the bass to suck. period. I could be wrong but my experiences with premium factory systems have all been bad when doing a "dirty" tie in. I did a quick look on crutchfield and the factory adapter that allows one to retain the SYNC functionality is 200 buck. I still suggest calling them and find out what they recommend.

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post #18 of 19 Old 08-21-2011, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you very much! That takes care of pretty much everything, but is that still leaving out the nothing but bass problem that your sons friends experienced? I'm concerned about that now
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post #19 of 19 Old 08-22-2011, 07:42 AM
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You will have the end control of this. There is always gain adjustment on the amp and your volume controls. In your situation, if it's to much, at least you know and you can always budget an amp upgrade for the front.

Good luck!! Seems like you are on your way to some BOOOOOM!

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