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post #1 of 31 Old 12-31-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally I am getting closer to where i want to be...I upgraded the system in my 1991 ranger.

I kept the Kenwood 6x8's in the rear,and went with Kenwood 6's in front.
Also swapped out the 12 yeal old Kenwood cd player,for a brand new Pioneer DEH-P5000UB

Exchanged my Kenwood Excelon KAC-X621 for a newer(I think...) KAC-9104D

Currently I am running 1 Kicker L7 Solo-Baric 10" sub at 2ohms...the sub handles 600rms,the amp is mono and is 900rms at 2ohms..it sounds ok..but I want to go to a different sub.

I want to stay with just 1 sub,and 15" is too big for the area i have..and obviously 10" isnt cutting it...so im kinda thinking of getting a 12" sub...but what model/brand should i get?
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post #2 of 31 Old 01-01-2012, 02:33 PM
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What about two 10"s? Is the box sealed or ported?

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post #3 of 31 Old 01-01-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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ported..i tried it with the 2 10's,then 1 10...10" just isnt giving me what im looking for...ive decided to go with a 12"..a round one,not another Kicker..just need to know what will handle 900rms.
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post #4 of 31 Old 01-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=269-091

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-03-2012, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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What are your thoughts on the Eclipse Ti?
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-03-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger91 View Post

What are your thoughts on the Eclipse Ti?

The ones made by TC Sounds? Or the ones after that?

Either way the design is a bass pump. Lots of excursion tons of output and if it's an LMS design, the sound will be clean...

Again, if you read any of my subwoofer posts, there is one thing I try to preach.

Bass in a vehicle or rather most vehicles is incredibly easy. Spending lots of cash on super woofers is not necessary unless you are planning on feeding these things kilowatts. If you follow that link I posted, there are a couple of other subs in that clearout. Cheaper.

The other thing is the enclosure will dictate sound and output in most cases more than the woofer. Get the best enclosure in your vehicle to get the best out of your sub.

Extended cab on your ranger?

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-03-2012, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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yes extended cab
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post #8 of 31 Old 01-04-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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ok..i bought a used sub today,i knew the owner(since it was new),knew it wasnt abused..and it was only $40

It is an Eclipse 88120dvc (4ohm per vc) 12" sub.
I however cannot find any specs on it..he thought it was 500rms/1000 peak

now...would this almost 30lbs monster be better in a sealed or ported box?
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-04-2012, 09:39 PM
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Dear god.

Is it a Ti?

If so it has the 3HP motor (same as my sub)

Several choices here.

Small sealed 1.5 cubic feet.

Ported 2 cubic feet tuned to 32 hertz. lotsa port area needed. At least a 6" diameter ID port.

will POUND.

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post #10 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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i dont think it is the Ti..i think the Ti model number starts with a 9 and this is a 88120dvc
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 08:24 AM
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Came in two flavors
Aluminum cone with the TC9 motor
Titanium cone with the 3HP motor

Both cones were "silver"

Either way, both are beasts. The Ti is just a bit more "beastly"

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post #12 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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i think the Ti cone flex rubber whatchama-thingy is like 2" wide..this is just over an inch wide.
Photo on left is the same as what i have..photo on right is a Ti.
LL
LL
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger91 View Post

i think the Ti cone flex rubber whatchama-thingy is like 2" wide..this is just over an inch wide.
Photo on left is the same as what i have..photo on right is a Ti.

It's called a surround. Seriously.

Either way, it appears to be a damn good sub. so kudos to your purchase. Put it in a box and pound away.

Keep that L7 though. I most likely would have kept the two you had, purchased a box design specific to them and applied serious power. Called it a day. Still would have picked up your new sub to use in the HT.

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

It's called a surround. Seriously

LOL it looks like a surround with a small woofer attached, instead of the other way around What is the SD of that sub? Are they making up for lack of surface area with some a huge xmax?

And it really weights 30lbs? If so "beast" is right! Man... two of those puppys would then likely out weight the entire system I'm putting into my 350Z.

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post #15 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMII View Post

LOL it looks like a surround with a small woofer attached, instead of the other way around What is the SD of that sub? Are they making up for lack of surface area with some a huge xmax?

And it really weights 30lbs? If so "beast" is right! Man... two of those puppys would then likely out weight the entire system I'm putting into my 350Z.

My 15" TC3000 (3hp motor) is right at 50 pounds. The LMS ultra 15 was in the 80 pound range.

The RE XXX15 is about a 100 pounds.

But yeah you are looking at a high XMAX woofer ~30mm 1 way, 2.6" P-P

The one pic he shows I believe is the 10" with the mongo fat surround.

I have been talking to a guy with two of the Neo motored TC3000 15" subs. He wants 800 for both. I so want that. Sure I would have to upgrade my electrical because I would want at least 3kw. And obviously then there would be a need for a new front stage to keep up with the increase in bass. Surely a need for more power in the front as well.... Dang subs would cost me 3-4 grand

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post #16 of 31 Old 01-07-2012, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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found these specs on my sub...

12" dual vioce coil
FS:22HZ
QTS:0.35
VAS:4.25Ft2
SPL:87.1DB
QES:0.401
QMS:2.9
SD:0.0511

whats that all mean?
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post #17 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger91 View Post

found these specs on my sub...

12" dual vioce coil
FS:22HZ
QTS:0.35
VAS:4.25Ft2
SPL:87.1DB
QES:0.401
QMS:2.9
SD:0.0511

whats that all mean?

Easier to copy from Wiki.

Fs
Also called F0, resonance frequency measured in hertz (Hz). The frequency at which the combination of the energy stored in the moving mass and suspension compliance is maximum, and results in maximum cone velocity. A more compliant suspension or a larger moving mass will cause a lower resonance frequency, and vice versa. Usually it is less efficient to produce output at frequencies below Fs, and input signals significantly below Fs can cause large excursions, mechanically endangering the driver. A typical factory tolerance for Fs spec is ±15%.


Qts
A unitless measurement, characterizing the combined electric and mechanical damping of the driver. In electronics, Q is the inverse of the damping ratio. The value of Qts is proportional to the energy stored, divided by the energy dissipated, and is defined at resonance (Fs). Most drivers have Qts values between 0.2 and 0.5, but there are valid (if unusual) reasons to have a value outside this range.


Qms
A unitless measurement, characterizing the mechanical damping of the driver, that is, the losses in the suspension (surround and spider.) It varies roughly between 0.5 and 10, with a typical value around 3. High Qms indicates lower mechanical losses, and low Qms indicates higher losses. The main effect of Qms is on the impedance of the driver, with high Qms drivers displaying a higher impedance peak. One predictor for low Qms is a metallic voice coil former. These act as eddy-current brakes and increase damping, reducing Qms. They must be designed with an electrical break in the cylinder (so no conducting loop). Some speaker manufacturers have placed shorted turns at the top and bottom of the voice coil to prevent it leaving the gap, but the sharp noise created by this device when the driver is overdriven is alarming and was perceived as a problem by owners. Low Qms drivers are often built with nonconductive formers, made from paper, or various plastics.


Qes
A unitless measurement, describing the electrical damping of the loudspeaker. As the coil of wire moves through the magnetic field, it generates a current which opposes the motion of the coil. This so-called "Back-EMF" (proportional to Bl * velocity) decreases the total current through the coil near the resonance frequency, reducing cone movement and increasing impedance. In most drivers, Qes is the dominant factor in the voice coil damping. Qes depends on amplifier output impedance. The formula above assumes zero output impedance. When an amplifier with nonzero output impedance is used, its output impedance should be added to Re for calculations involving Qes.


Sd
Measured in square metres (m²). The effective projected area of the cone or diaphragm. It is difficult to measure and depends largely on the shape and properties of the surround. Generally accepted as the cone body diameter plus one third to one half the width of the annulus (surround). Drivers with wide roll surrounds can have significantly less Sd than conventional types with the same frame diameter.

Sensitivity
The sound pressure, in dB, produced by a speaker in response to a specified stimulus. Usually this is specified at an input of 1 watt or 2.83 volts (2.83 volts = 1 watt into an 8 ohm load) at a distance of one metre. Usually meaningless for subwoofers as the industry standard is taken at 1000 hertz.

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post #18 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info..you are a wealth of knowledge!!!

I built a box,not sure how to "tune" to 32hz...but whatever i did,holy hell did it wake things up...bass so powerful your ears ring for an hour afterwards,every part of you vibrates to the point of being hard to breathe..and this is with just 1 12" old school sub.

Friend of mine has one of those DB readers..but it only goes to 135...i buried the 135 and cleanly went up another 15 notches on the volume button...he figures im probably 170-175db...wish i had an accurate way to find out.
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-10-2012, 07:58 AM
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Not going trying to burst your buble but 170 db takes so much power and woofers and generally a special vehicle that you did not hit that mark.


A single 12 on 1kw in a truck will give you in the 130's-low 140's if you are lucky.

It's those pesky laws of physics that get you.

To get it metered, call your local audio shops. Ask if they offer Term-Lab services. I get mine metered for about 10 bucks a pop. They stick a pressure sensor on your windshield passenger side and you play a 20-80 hertz sweep. They tell you how much pressure you produce. Simple and you have a number. make sure doors are closed and windows rolled up. This is termed "legal". There are other methods, doors open sensor in kick panel etc that can yield inflated scores. That way you can say I TL "X db" legal.

As for your enclosure, I can tell you what it is tuned to if you give me all dimensions. I need outside dimensions H X W X L. I need material thickness (1/2" 3/4") and as for your port, did you use a pvc pipe I need ID of that and length or if you slot ported the box I need ID height and width and the length of the slot port.

Be careful and make sure you use the high pass sub sonic filter to protect your sub. Any frequencies under your "tune" the woofer is no longer loaded by the enclosure and you rapidly lose control of the cone. This can cause mechanical damage to that beautiful sub. And by mechanical damage I mean it is no longer any good to you and I would be forced to hunt you down... I kid.

Not really...

No just kidding



Seriously though, this is probably the number one cause of woofer death in car audio using ported enclosures. And couple that to " I think I am tuned to this frequency" and you have a recipe for disaster.



On the other side of this, I am glad you are happy!! And congrats on your bumpin system!

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-10-2012, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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amp is KAC-9104D not sure where to find the high pass sub sonic filter button/adj.

outside box dimensions are 11 1/8" deep by 15" tall by 32" long.
slot port inside dimensions are 13.5" tall by 2.5" wide by 14" long

entire box is 3/4" MDF
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-10-2012, 10:13 AM
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3-Way Infrasonic Filter Switch: Off-15Hz-25Hz

You want the 25 hertz setting.

Saves power, protects sub.

And be careful with bass boost. As in never use it or if you have to 1-2 db.

Remember that every 3 db requires double power.

Amp clips faster.

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post #22 of 31 Old 01-10-2012, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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isnt this sub rebuildable?
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-10-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger91 View Post

isnt this sub rebuildable?

Possibly. IF TC still has the parts. They went bankrupt in 2008 or 2009. Now they only sell through Parts express and I believe they still do some OEM work. But I am going to bet that what you got would not be as bad ass as what you have.

just my opinion though.

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post #24 of 31 Old 01-10-2012, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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did you happen to get the numbers i posted to tell me what hz the box is tuned to?

and for the record,you are a major asset to this forum..id love to see what your system sounds like considering your knowledge.
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-11-2012, 08:58 AM
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Aww shux. Thanks.

I did not get to looking at your box and tuning I will. Work yesterday and today and I am driving to Greenbay in 15 minutes from Champaign Il. So not an excuse but a reason. I will model your box. Just glad you are happy with the rockin you are getting.

As for my system, It consists at times of BG Neo 3 planar tweeters, BG Neo 8 Planar mids, Dayton RS225 8" midbass drivers and the single TC Sounds TC3000 15" in 5 different enclosures based on mood and space requirements
or
All the above except the BG Neo 8 mids and add in a set of MB Quart coaxs for rear fill duties. Delayed of course. This is what is running in my car right now. I have sitting a set of Faitel 4" drivers that I am going to glass some pods on the dash to hold them and the Neo 3's on axis. They will play 300-3k where the Neo 3's will take over.


I don't compete as I like my subs a little hot. I am a child of the 80's especially the glam rock/hair metal music in which I saw over 200 concerts. (I still got the long hair ) So when designing my system, I wanted to get that "concert" feel. Wife was happy with it and my son (15 at the time) was oh so happy. This led us (boy and me) to hit the hobby hard when he hit 16. He and his friends, my brother's ex's boys, my nephew and his buddies are always over and we are always tinkering, building boxes etc... I try to keep them grounded and that there is actually some music other than bass in hip hop/rap. So I tend to dabble quite a bit in non SQ based systems. I just want them to sound good while also being loud.

Sorry for the brief lifes works. I tend to babble.
I

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post #26 of 31 Old 01-11-2012, 09:16 AM
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Did a bit of quick math.

box volume no port no woofer

2.26 cubic feet

volume port included

1.9 cubic feet

subtract .1 for woofer and you have 1.8 cubic feet

which means you are tuned to about 45 hertz with the vent specs you gave me. Going to be super loud but you will miss some of the lows. Not going to be very musical but again, very loud. In car response should get you down into the 30's which is fine. Glad we found the infra sonic filter to help protect that woofer.


Looks like enough vent area to keep noise down with your power. So enjoy!!!


Let me know when you want to build a new box and get LOWWWWW. Will help if I can.

Placement.: Not sure of sub and port orientation, but if you can aim the port into the passenger wall, YOU (drivers position) should have the best/loudest spot in the truck.

Gotta hit the road. I have laptop so will be on later..

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post #27 of 31 Old 01-11-2012, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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ok,turned the switch to 25hz,turned amp gain all the way down to 0,turned deck bass boost to 0,and turned LOUD to LOW on deck...then played with my deck setting,doesnt hit quite as hard,but alot more clean if that makes sense,and makes things vibrate harder.
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-12-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger91 View Post

ok,turned the switch to 25hz,turned amp gain all the way down to 0,turned deck bass boost to 0,and turned LOUD to LOW on deck...then played with my deck setting,doesnt hit quite as hard,but alot more clean if that makes sense,and makes things vibrate harder.

totally makes sense.
You don't have to adjust the gain all the way down.

The gain is there to level match the input of the amp to the output of the headunit. Notice how some head units quote 4 volt, 5 volt 8 volt outputs? Well some only have 2 volt and there are others mostly from my younger days that had less.

Your amp makes a finite amount of power. It does so based on the signal it receives from the head unit.

the only things that the gain can do is allow you to match the signal so thsat when you max the volume at the head unit you hit the max output of the amp. Or you hit max output of the amp at volume setting 10 of 50 on the head unit (I see this more often than anything) and you end p with amp clipping and just bad sound.
Or I set the amp gain a little low so that I can max the volume at the head unit and have a bit more powah at the amp so if I want to hit loudness or give the bass boost a little bump for a particular song, I have the power on tap.

hopefully I am making my point understandable. without looking/listening/measuring your amp and head unit, I would bet you could run the gain somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2. You will have to see what your head unit outputs and what the gain has available for adjustment.

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post #29 of 31 Old 01-12-2012, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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ok,im ready to build a new box...so ready i invested in a table saw so i dont have to try and cut straight with my 20 year old black and decker skil saw.

also have a sheet of 3/4" MDF,screws,caulk..IM READY!!!
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-12-2012, 11:48 PM
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Man's getting serious!

Well I am still stuck in Milwaukee. But when I get home, I will see what I got already made up as far as sub plans go. If I got something that will fit, I will PM you.

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