Outfiting My Truck..Opinions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 11-02-2012, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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My truck is a 1988 chevy silverado standard cab. its still got the factory system of which only one speaker works...lol
Ive been researching different options and have decided on the Kenwood excelon KDC-X896 as a head unit..but im stuck deciding on replaceing the 4x6's in the stock location with mayb some JBL P6462 plate speakers..or getting Q-logic kick panel boxes and installing a set of 6.5 components like JL C2-650...or C5-650..or MBQuart Qs216. or mayb some combination of the 2..like components in the kick panels and a set of 4x6 on the dash or on the pillars by the seat...so i guess the opinions i need is what yall think of those speakers?..any other sugestions for speakers in the same price range?...and which placement senerio would sound best?....i do plan on also having an amp and sub. just havent researched that much yet.

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post #2 of 29 Old 11-02-2012, 03:25 PM
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Depending on budget, I would get the a logic kicks and a good set of 6 1/2's to put in them.

Add an amp to power them instead of the head unit. And that should rock out really well. I have a sub enclosure design for a couple 8's that I can shoot the LxWxH of the box and you can see if it might fit.

I did a single 10 in my brothers standard cab. 600 watts driving that and 100 per channel driving 6 1/2's in the doors and tweeters installed on the a pillars

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post #3 of 29 Old 11-03-2012, 12:10 PM
 
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there's usually only two reasons for those kick panels:
1. because it made the distance from one speaker more equal to the distance of the other speaker (but this was before distance delays on the head unit)
2. because of the reflections that would accumulate .. sometimes it would be better to use the roof and rear window to accumulate soundwaves, while other times it was better to use the door location.

number 2 is involved with the total response inside the cabin.
it could be frequency response
it could be phase response
it could be the timing of the reflections being more or less the same throughout the frequency range.

i am the type to get in there and do it and see for myself, instead of having computer processing software to answer those questions for me.
(seems like the only two options doing it yourself, and other than that a person to simply know the answer .. but i dont know the answer)

it might be wise to get a plate speaker.
but it might also be wise to keep the 4x6 shape.

see..
in the rear window of many cars, the window is angled.. and sometimes there is a bend to the window seperate of the angle.
and because the rear deck sits below the window, there is like a pocket of space there.
the wide part of the 6x9 (the 9 inch part) can help fill up the air of that pocket with a more wide soundwave.

i look at it like this..
two round speakers might leave some empty gaps in that pocket of air.
while the oval speakers could fill in the pocket with less empty gaps.
and to the listener, that means the sound coming from the pocket of space is more like an ocean tide compared to getting squirted with a hose.
either way is getting wet, but if you could get the soundstage to blend together like one big chunk of audio .. it sounds better than listening to the round cone bounce the soundwaves around in the empty spaces like a slinky going down the stairs mixed with a rubber bouncy ball from the quarter machine.

if the 4x6 was in the door..
does the wide part simply go straight into the driver or passenger leg?
or does it have a better purpose like shaping the soundwave to miss the dashboard?
but the dashboard is only one half of the output pattern.
the other half is towards the listening position.

see for the rear window example.. the sound is basically coming from that general area.
it means the sound could come from the window just as much as it could the speaker cone .. but the cone isnt pointed at my ears, so that really says the sound will come more from the window .. even if it is 51% compared to 49% .. the 1% is more.

for front speakers in the door.. the circle pattern could really prove helpful when thinking about the listening position.
and the only way to think of it for anything better is to also think about the shape of the vehicle those soundwaves are bumping into.
(like the flat rear window and the roof.. as well as the angle of those shapes to the speaker)
because maybe the oval speaker slides across the L shape .. maybe the circle shape will hit the L and slide less and then just cause a bunch of soundwaves to fight in as they are trapped in the corner by the window seal (or where the roof meets the window body panel).

if you think about which shape you need first.. you wont be wasting any money when you get some speakers.
as for which speakers, it gets harder and harder to hear them personally to give an experienced answer.
and it really isnt fair to just use the name brand of the speaker as a quality answer, because the typical car audio companies are not always selling the same quality of speaker clarity.

it is true still..
sometimes one brand name will always show some improvement over another one when you simply drop in the speaker and start up some audio.
and people look at one name brand like a 'low quality oem replacement' ..while the other company always tries to aim for 'mid-grade premium oem replacement'
sometimes the only premium is the number of extra watts the speaker will take in (and how much louder it is compared to the oem system).
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post #4 of 29 Old 11-03-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anwaypasible View Post

there's usually only two reasons for those kick panels:
1. because it made the distance from one speaker more equal to the distance of the other speaker (but this was before distance delays on the head unit)
2. because of the reflections that would accumulate .. sometimes it would be better to use the roof and rear window to accumulate soundwaves, while other times it was better to use the door location.
number 2 is inolved with the total response inside the cabin.
it could be frequency response
it could be phase response
it could be the timing of the reflections being more or less the same throughout the frequency range.
i am the type to get in there and do it and see for myself, instead of having computer processing software to answer those questions for me.
(seems like the only two options doing it yourself, and other than that a person to simply know the answer .. but i dont know the answer)
it might be wise to get a plate speaker.
but it might also be wise to keep the 4x6 shape.
see..
in the rear window of many cars, the window is angled.. and sometimes there is a bend to the window seperate of the angle.
and because the rear deck sits below the window, there is like a pocket of space there.
the wide part of the 6x9 (the 9 inch part) can help fill up the air of that pocket with a more wide soundwave.
i look at it like this..
two round speakers might leave some empty gaps in that pocket of air.
while the oval speakers could fill in the pocket with less empty gaps.
and to the listener, that means the sound coming from the pocket of space is more like an ocean tide compared to getting squirted with a hose.
either way is getting wet, but if you could get the soundstage to blend together like one big chunk of audio .. it sounds better than listening to the round cone bounce the soundwaves around in the empty spaces like a slinky going down the stairs mixed with a rubber bouncy ball from the quarter machine.
if the 4x6 was in the door..
does the wide part simply go straight into the driver or passenger leg?
or does it have a better purpose like shaping the soundwave to miss the dashboard?
but the dashboard is only one half of the output pattern.
the other half is towards the listening position.
see for the rear window example.. the sound is basically coming from that general area.
it means the sound could come from the window just as much as it could the speaker cone .. but the cone isnt pointed at my ears, so that really says the sound will come more from the window .. even if it is 51% compared to 49% .. the 1% is more.
for front speakers in the door.. the circle pattern could really prove helpful when thinking about the listening position.
and the only way to think of it for anything better is to also think about the shape of the vehicle those soundwaves are bumping into.
(like the flat rear window and the roof.. as well as the angle of those shapes to the speaker)
because maybe the oval speaker slides across the L shape .. maybe the circle shape will hit the L and slide less and then just cause a bunch of soundwaves to fight in as they are trapped in the corner by the window seal (or where the roof meets the window body panel).
if you think about which shape you need first.. you wont be wasting any money when you get some speakers.
as for which speakers, it gets harder and harder to hear them personally to give an experienced answer.
and it really isnt fair to just use the name brand of the speaker as a quality answer, because the typical car audio companies are not always selling the same quality of speaker clarity.
it is true still..
sometimes one brand name will always show some improvement over another one when you simply drop in the speaker and start up some audio.
and people look at one name brand like a 'low quality oem replacement' ..while the other company always tries to aim for 'mid-grade premium oem replacement'
sometimes the only premium is the number of extra watts the speaker will take in (and how much louder it is compared to the oem system).

why do you feel the need to ramble on for 10 paragraphs about nothing, when the OP is looking for recommendations on buying a $60 pair of speakers? In the past week you have done nothing but ramble on and on about nothing and completely overwhelm the conversation. If you feel the need to discus things in this much detail...i would suggest you find another forum...the majority of people here are looking for simple straightforward answers to basic install questions.

Tim
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post #5 of 29 Old 11-04-2012, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

Depending on budget, I would get the a logic kicks and a good set of 6 1/2's to put in them.
Add an amp to power them instead of the head unit. And that should rock out really well. I have a sub enclosure design for a couple 8's that I can shoot the LxWxH of the box and you can see if it might fit.
I did a single 10 in my brothers standard cab. 600 watts driving that and 100 per channel driving 6 1/2's in the doors and tweeters installed on the a pillars

yeah im leaning towards just a set of 6.5 2 way components in the kick panels...dont wanna cut the doors or anything...but was debating the adition of 4x6s in the dash as filler. im thinking the 6.5s should fill the cab with sound nicely..and the q logic boxes angle the speakers out toward the seats instead of shooting straight across toward each other. i kinda eliminated the factory rear pillar area as a location where i want speakers..that shoots straight into my left ear when driving..and the right ear of a passenger... ...also leaning towards a 10"sub. but i gotta do some measuring first..not sure yet if it will be an under the seat or behind the seat location.

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post #6 of 29 Old 11-04-2012, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tundrSQ View Post

why do you feel the need to ramble on for 10 paragraphs about nothing, when the OP is looking for recommendations on buying a $60 pair of speakers? In the past week you have done nothing but ramble on and on about nothing and completely overwhelm the conversation. If you feel the need to discus things in this much detail...i would suggest you find another forum...the majority of people here are looking for simple straightforward answers to basic install questions.

ive read several of his posts...i think he is hillarious...but within his rambles are titbits of good info..he strikes me as an audio theory professor giving a lecture or something...lol ..but ur right ..i think he has ran off a few posters who just wanted a simple straight discussion.

BTW the components are 300$ speakers...lol

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post #7 of 29 Old 11-05-2012, 05:33 PM
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ive read several of his posts...i think he is hillarious...but within his rambles are titbits of good info..he strikes me as an audio theory professor giving a lecture or something...lol ..but ur right ..i think he has ran off a few posters who just wanted a simple straight discussion.
BTW the components are 300$ speakers...lol

oh, if you are willing to spend $300 for comps...check out the Hybrid Audio Imagines....that what i run, and they sound very nice.

Tim
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post #8 of 29 Old 11-06-2012, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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oh, if you are willing to spend $300 for comps...check out the Hybrid Audio Imagines....that what i run, and they sound very nice.

theyve got good reviews...gonna research them a lil more...thanks for the sugestion

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post #9 of 29 Old 11-06-2012, 03:47 PM
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theyve got good reviews...gonna research them a lil more...thanks for the sugestion

its a good solid american company...scott is a real good guy and if you ever have any questions he is just an email away,

Tim
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post #10 of 29 Old 11-06-2012, 09:46 PM
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its a good solid american company...scott is a real good guy and if you ever have any questions he is just an email away,

Not to pick, but his speakers are made by Hivi out of china.he has speakers made and shipped here. He then sells them. His sales network is American. That's it.

A decent speaker with amazing support. If you compete, the support is even better.

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post #11 of 29 Old 11-07-2012, 02:13 AM
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Not to pick, but his speakers are made by Hivi out of china.he has speakers made and shipped here. He then sells them. His sales network is American. That's it.
A decent speaker with amazing support. If you compete, the support is even better.

Scott has explained this a million times...i am sure you have read it too... there is more to being an american company than where things are made.

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post #12 of 29 Old 11-07-2012, 07:20 AM
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Scott has explained this a million times...i am sure you have read it too... there is more to being an american company than where things are made.

Not criticizing the speakers or the support HAT supplies. Plus a real nice guy. He gave me a tour of his warehouse in 2007.

If all it takes to be an American company is to have product drop shipped ready to sell then OK. HAT is an American company with a hell of a Gross Margin. And yeah, i have read the statements at DIYMA. But come on. That's like calling Audiopipe an american company. And his sales unit are independent car audio dealers that are selling HIS product. Like Lowes or Home depot selling a particular brand of cordless drill. Just because they are American doesn't mean it makes Black and Decker more American.

There is a difference if you order components and assemble them to a finished product. Which is done a lot!!

OR

have engineers working in conjunction at a manufacturing facility making a specific product that is not specifically the same anywhere else (think apple)

I have a lot of respect for HAT. Great marketing. People have bought into the product. The customer support is second to no one. Especially if you compete.

I have no issue with speakers made in China either. Heck I have a budget I have to abide by. I just will not/can not pay the prices that are asked for something I can get comparably performance-wise and a heck of a lot cheaper.

I feel the same way regarding Arc Audio as well. Either relabeled speakers sold for a premium to an unsuspecting group or amplifiers that can be found using pretty much the same board in other less costly brands.

That is what DIYMA used to be about. Uncovering the marketing crap and either showing the truth or at least the science behind it.


Besides man, this is nothing but a Ford/Chevy. mayo vs miracle whip etc discussion at its core.biggrin.gif End of the day, it's whether you are happy with your purchase. And I believe you are. So who cares where the thing is made?

If I remember, you got B-stock HAt speakers. Awesome!! My Sundown amplifiers were B Stock blems. again the Budgets rule out.

Best advice is to watch what Erin does with the Klippel (bikinpunk at Diyma) on his website medley's musings.

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post #13 of 29 Old 11-07-2012, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I have no issue with speakers made in China either. Heck I have a budget I have to abide by. I just will not/can not pay the prices that are asked for something I can get comparably performance-wise and a heck of a lot cheaper.
.

dude ..point me twords some comparably performanced components at or below my 300$ limit ..im open for sugestions.

been spending some time over at caraudio.com and just became a member at diymobileaudio yestuday..so im open to learning and researching

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post #14 of 29 Old 11-07-2012, 12:03 PM
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Also look at mobilesoundscience.com

That's where the brain trust of DIYMA went to.

I am the wrong guy for a prematched set of components. I rock raw drivers and run active (no passive crossovers/every speaker has it's own amp channel).

The HAT Imagine drivers are a solid performer.

The Alpine SPX17Pro if you increase your budget by about a 100 bucks. Speakers were done by Scanspeak if I remember correctly. The crossover is magic!!! Very well done.

Focal, JBL, DLS all make decent offerings. PPI has an amazing 2 and 3 way

Not sure what amp you are going to run, but, if you can run active, there are a ton of different configurations you can rock and be way below the 300 dollar mark. Even run passive and make a simple high low passive. A simple 3K high pass and 3k low pass. Add resisters to help level match the tweeters.

Am hoping TundrSQ will chime in.

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post #15 of 29 Old 11-07-2012, 04:32 PM
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dude ..point me twords some comparably performanced components at or below my 300$ limit ..im open for sugestions.
been spending some time over at caraudio.com and just became a member at diymobileaudio yestuday..so im open to learning and researching

I have some HAT imagines in my car...i bought them because i wanted to see what the fuss was about and they were on sale.

My honest and true opinion is they are a decent speaker...they are not an amazing speaker...but they sound good and i have no problems recomending them to people.

I made t he mistake of saying they were a decent american company...and i don't care to get into all that here.

I can also say that the HAT images replaced a pair of nearly identical MQ Quart speakers

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PW8H86/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

And i will say that yes the HAT's sound better....but i would not bet more than $10 bucks that i could tell the difference between the two sets blindfolded.

As for rocking separates....back in the day i ran Dynaudio D28's and !7w75's while most people were running quarts and ads packaged comps. But that was 20 years ago or more. And i ran them in the kick panels of ,my honda accord with 2 12" NHT 1259 subs running aperiodic and tuned by eric stevens...

just throwing out a little street cred :-)

oh sorry...cliffnotes....buy the HATS or don't buy the HATS...i feel comfortable recommending them....and i think we all know that speaker manufactures mark the products up obscene amounts.

As for HIVI...i hope they make nice stuff because i am buying a pair of Swan 6.1's this weekend...i think

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Swans......

Droooooooooooolllllll.

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post #17 of 29 Old 11-08-2012, 02:29 PM
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Swans......
Droooooooooooolllllll.

still debating...its a 3 hours drive each way....but the price is right.

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post #18 of 29 Old 11-09-2012, 06:34 PM
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Swans......
Droooooooooooolllllll.

made the decision ..picking them up sunday:)

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post #19 of 29 Old 11-21-2012, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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ok guys. i got this head unit:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KDCX896/Kenwood-Excelon-KDC-X896.html?tp=5684#details-tab

and these components: for the kick panels

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_45048_JBL-MS-62C.html

now on to researching subs and amp.
since my standard cab pickup is limited on space. and the type of music i listen to isnt real base heavy. (rock, metal) im leaning towards a single or double 8" sub. or a 10'. havent measured yet to see what will fit as far as inclosures go which is why im still not sure to go with 1 or 2 8" subs or a single 10 .the amp will probably go under the seat and the sub behind. so im looking for recomendations on subs, enclosure, and amp to drive the components and sub. not looking for huge SPL's but SQ is important...

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post #20 of 29 Old 11-21-2012, 03:36 PM
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i think you have made 2 excellent purchases so far....and IMO, if you can fit a single 10, i think i would go in that direction. I did a pair of 8's in a tundra, and went thru about 4 different pairs. 2 8's was just not quite enough impart for me.

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post #21 of 29 Old 11-22-2012, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks. ill get in there and measure this weekend sometime. then ill have an idea what will fit and mayb yall can make some sugestions.

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post #22 of 29 Old 11-25-2012, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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under the seat im looking at 13"x13"x6"...could probably go a little thicker but that 6" is to conact with a couple horizontal springs, for the seat slider i think.

behind the seat ive got 7.5" from the bottom of the seat to back wall...then 5" from middle of seat to back wall.....a 13.5" hight.(the area between a factory storage tray on the bottom and the plastic trim under the back window) ...and can be as wide as 33" if nessasary.

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post #23 of 29 Old 11-27-2012, 09:38 AM
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Basic design I used for my brother. He uses a single enclosure with a ten inch. 2 eights will definitely rock your truck.

The JBL GTO 8 should work well as well as several others. just check mounting depth

Sorry its been a bit in reply. Working in Charleston SC currently.
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post #24 of 29 Old 11-27-2012, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply. ill check out those jbl 8s . thanks for the box plans. any idea what the cubic feet of air space is in one section of that box.? trying to decide on ported or not. i want the sub to have punch for kick drum and such. dont need to go super low...no rap allowd in my truck..lol...the components r rated at 60-20,000hz but i wanna keep some of that low end out of them.

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post #25 of 29 Old 11-27-2012, 07:06 PM
 
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it's because a string instrument will go as low as 20hz .. its because harmonics and nuance can add up or down to 20hz
and really.. sometimes those add up to lower than 20hz
the probability of occurance most likely had something to do with why they chose 20hz instead of 10hz or 15hz


you know what those old 'color by number' coloring books were?
well if you dont have all the colors, you cant finish the picture.
that's why i say go deep?..
i've heard deep before and it just feels more emotionally satisfying.. kinda like sitting by a fire, it doesnt need to make you sweat or make you feel like you arent wearing a coat as long as the heat from the fire is warmer than the outside air then there is something to say thanks about.

annoying?
the many people that dont get low from the very start .. compared to the situation that doesnt happen where the low isnt loud enough
it doesnt happen because people dont ever start in the first place.


then there are the people that insist the lower portions of the audio dont get used enough to be important.
not true.
they might not get used in every single song .. but the arguement really starts when talking about every single album.
people who listen for only 20 minutes per day could see the improvement of aiming to hear lower frequencies.
but if you are going to spend the next year listening to the same 4-5 cd's that doesnt use the lower bass notes:
1. you are a rare percentage
2. you simply arent listening enough to count and appreciate


it's an area where people can learn the difference between peace and relaxation when both of the words concern satisfaction.
i can turn the 20hz up or down on my equalizer and i notice immediately the difference.
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post #26 of 29 Old 11-28-2012, 11:29 AM
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I don't know. Easy enough to calculate though.

For a small enclosure, such as what your truck requires, I suggest ported since the bump in. Output on the low end helps immensely.

As for no rap, that's fine. Only time it gets played in my system is when the boy borrows my car or I am using high bass content music to show off the low end. I am a rock guy on 99% of my music. With blues being second. Most music has very little information below 30 hertz. So unless you happen to listen to a lot of heavily synthesized tone heavy music or the 1% of the orchestra selections out there that has been recorded to actually have those frequencies playable (think telarc and those other albums out there.) then aiming for down to 30 hertz is the more viable easier to achieve plan.


Keeping the lows out of the main speakers will make them play cleaner, louder with less distortion then trying to get them to play subwoofer frequencies. Let the sub take care of 80-100 hertz and down. They are meant to do that.

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post #27 of 29 Old 12-08-2012, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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researched SQ subs and decided to go with the GTO804..reviews r good, price is right, and the relitively shallow mounting depth is a plus..going with 2 of them..gonna build my own enclosure.. JBL recomends .3cu for single sub sealed ..or .6cu with a 8 13/16 x 2 1/2 port
do i just double the cubic feet if i made a single box to hold both? .
or do a single box with a partition between each side?.
.heres some specs and graphs for the sub:
http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/jbl/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/BoxesandParameters/GTO%20804D.pdf

also looking for sugestions on something to drive everything with.
the compnents are rated at this:

◦Peak: 320 watts per pair / 160 watts each
*RMS: 160 watts per pair / 80 watts each
•4 ohms

and the sub is this

◦Peak: 800 watts
◦RMS: 200 watts
•Impedance: Single 4 ohm

i suppose id run the subs paralell for a 2 ohm final?

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post #28 of 29 Old 12-10-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strutter View Post

researched SQ subs and decided to go with the GTO804..reviews r good, price is right, and the relitively shallow mounting depth is a plus..going with 2 of them..gonna build my own enclosure.. JBL recomends .3cu for single sub sealed ..or .6cu with a 8 13/16 x 2 1/2 port
do i just double the cubic feet if i made a single box to hold both? .
or do a single box with a partition between each side?.
.heres some specs and graphs for the sub:
http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/jbl/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/BoxesandParameters/GTO%20804D.pdf
also looking for sugestions on something to drive everything with.
the compnents are rated at this:
◦Peak: 320 watts per pair / 160 watts each
*RMS: 160 watts per pair / 80 watts each
•4 ohms
and the sub is this
◦Peak: 800 watts
◦RMS: 200 watts
•Impedance: Single 4 ohm
i suppose id run the subs paralell for a 2 ohm final?

How you do the box design will be entirely up to what you feel you can pull off. If you are doing a single mono amplifier, then a common chamber enclosure will work fine. Makes it easier to port as well since the chamber is bigger. Just make sure you have large enough ports. Honestly, with the power and size of the subs, a couple of 3" or single 4" should be adequate. Subs behind driver and port firing against passenger side wall.

as for amplifiers, are you looking for a single amp solution? a 5 channel to do it all? saves on wiring. makes it easier.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27733_Massive-Audio-NX5.html

like this one ^^^

otherwise, what budget for amplification? A lot can be had.

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post #29 of 29 Old 12-11-2012, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post

How you do the box design will be entirely up to what you feel you can pull off. If you are doing a single mono amplifier, then a common chamber enclosure will work fine. Makes it easier to port as well since the chamber is bigger. Just make sure you have large enough ports. Honestly, with the power and size of the subs, a couple of 3" or single 4" should be adequate. Subs behind driver and port firing against passenger side wall.
as for amplifiers, are you looking for a single amp solution? a 5 channel to do it all? saves on wiring. makes it easier.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27733_Massive-Audio-NX5.html
like this one ^^^
otherwise, what budget for amplification? A lot can be had.

yeah for wiring simplicity and because of limited space a single amp solution is what im looking for..something with clean power for a SQ install..something that will properly drive the components and 2 subs...with some headroom. ..i think a 5 channel is unnessasary though, unless im thinking all wrong about how im gonna hook this all up..
price range...bang for the buck i guess..kinda like to get as many sugestions as possible so i can do some research.

BTW thanks for all ur help

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