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post #1 of 19 Old 03-09-2014, 03:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I recently blew up my 2000 Watt Crunch amp. It was 3 years old, and I used it about 6 hours a day when I'm working (Usually 4 days a week). I am trying to find something that can power my two Type-R 12" subwoofers Could be this subwoofer. I will take a look tomorrow and make sure, because I know 2 Ohm and 4 Ohm make buying an amplifier important. I really don't think my Crunch amp was actually pushing out 2000 watts because, well, it's a Crunch amp. >_>

I'm looking to actually buy something to last me awhile. Eventually I will be getting new subwoofers (Possibly even the new model Type-R's) but in the mean time, I am going to ground pound with these bad boys, since they seem to be doing the job. I would like something that obviously is going to give me more power than the 2000 watt Crunch amp (I am almost positive my subwoofers can hit harder and louder), and be the good class (I think D is bad, am I correct?). I'm basically looking to get the best possible amplifier for my subwoofers and be able to upgrade subwoofers to more powerful ones and not have to buy another amp in the future. I really don't care if it;s a mono block, but I have heard mono blocks usually give the most power.

I'm not looking to spend any more that 300$, but if it means getting a powerful amp I am willing to go a little over.

Honestly, from using this Crunch amp, I'm not entirely sure if I need a legit 2000 Watt amp. You guys tell me what I should use to power these subwoofers to nearly max, and still have enough room if I wanted to build up.

What about even if I just wanted to power these subs to the max, what would I need? I'm here for you guys, lol. You tell me what I should get.
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post #2 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 02:15 AM
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The first thing you need to do is figure out what load you can wire your subs at.If they are the dual 2 ohm versions then your choices will be 8,2 or .5 ohms.If they are the dual 4 ohm versions then they can be wired at 16,4 or 1 ohm.If you are unsure how to do this there are plenty of sites that can explain this.Rockford,kicker,JL or the bcae site will show you how.

 Class D amps are generally the best choice for subs since these amps are 75-90% efficient.Most of them are designed to drive 2 or 1 ohm loads.

If you are looking for a new amp on you $300 budget I would recommend something from the Maxsonics line of amps.Hifonics is their main line and the BRX2400.1d is right at your price point.Their rated output is measured at 14.4 volts so if you have the right size power and ground wire you should get about 75% of that power at 12-13 volts.A rule of thumb is to look at the fuses in the amp then multiply the total amps by the 12 volts in a typical car under load.So if your Crunch amp had 2 50 amp fuses then 100x12=1200.Subtract 20% from that for the amplifiers efficiency and you are left with 960 at best.If it only had 2 x 30 amp fuses then the amp was probably doing less the 600 watts.The biggest most powerful amps dont even have fuses.

 If I was going to by an amp with your budget it would be a used Rockford,MTX or JL.These amps are under rated.The old MTX 8100d is rated at 1000watts RMS at 2 ohm but I typically get about 1200 out of them on the bench with only 12volts at the terminals.The Rockford Fosgate 1500bd will do close to 2000 watts at 1 ohm.

 Other decent amps are JBL1200,Directed 1500d,Memphis1500 and the bigger Kickers.But you have to figure out what ohm load you are going to wire the subs to first then choose an amp that can safely drive that load.If you wire the subs to .5 ohms and put them on an amp that is only 2 ohm stable the subs will try to pull 4 times the amps max power and you will have smoke and fire.

 Im guessing this had something to do with your amps demise.

 The Type R 12's will handle between 300 and 600 watts each long term and up to 1000 each for short periods of time.Anything over that and the voice coils will heat up and compress the output if they don't burn up or over excurt first.

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post #3 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 05:11 PM
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Sundown audio saz1500d

I run one and have had zero issues since 2007.

Efficient. Makes rated plus power at 1ohm. Not cheap but definitely worth it. Great subs by the way.

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post #4 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, so I took both my Subwoofers out to clean them and check which woofer they actually are. I have the 1222D Type-R 12" shown here. I have a link cable going between the middle POSITIVE and NEGATIVE terminals. With my crunch amp, I had the woofers positive together and the negative together going into the amp. I have made a (horrible) picture to explain how I had them wired, shown below.

I do love sundown audio equipment, but getting an amp that is $500+ isn't in my head right now. I mean, I'd love to spend $500+ on an amp, but I'd only want one I knew for a fact was used nicely by somebody since new is way to expensive at the moment for me. By any chance, do you know any place that has it for under $500+?

With my Type-R 12", what would be the max I should use for these subs. I have a feeling the Crunch amp wasn't actually pumping out 2000 Watts since it has x4 30 Amp fuses. I am running nothing extra in my car meaning no High Output alternator or different battery (All though the battery is fairly new) and with 12.2 volts coming from my battery, that means it was putting out roughly 1464 Watts.

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post #5 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 08:33 PM
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So you are running a 2 ohm DCR with the series parallel wiring scheme.

Jbl gto14001 1500@2ohms..

I will look around for some others

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post #6 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 08:47 PM
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Those are dual 2 ohm subs,so going by your drawing you will have 2 ohms going to your amp.

 

You will need an amp that is 2 or 1 ohm stable.Ether one will work.All class d mono blocks I have seen are good to at least 2 ohm so anyone you choose should be fine.

 

The fuse rating on an amp is very vague and only a rough estimate of how much power an amplifier can pull before popping the fuses.If the amp cane run 1 ohm and there is only 2 ohms connected then theoretically you could remove 2 of the fuses and the amp would still work fine.If the amp is a class A/B then it is only about 50% efficient so then only half the max power the amp can pull is is delivered to the speakers.

 What was the model of the Crunch amp?

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post #7 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The model of the Crunch amp was PZA2000.1. I just took the whole amp apart and I couldn't find anything major that was wrong with it other than a few solder points weren't attached very well. I resoldered them but after retrying the amp, it didn't work.. I'm pretty sure it was the amp that blew. When it happened, I heard a really loud crackle and pop coming from my speakers and they worked for another 5 - 8 seconds and then I pulled my face plate off and it never worked after that. I also smelled something burning which smelled like electrically components (Which I know all to well). I have checked all the fuses and none of them blew, so to me it's obvious is was the amp that went.
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post #8 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 10:00 PM
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Yeah,that is a class A/B mono amp so it was probably doing about 300-400 watts at 2 ohm.

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post #9 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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So if both my subwoofers were getting ~200 Watts a piece, would a 1200 Watt Class D amp be pushing 600 Watts to each speaker? Is this overkill for Alpine Type-R 12"s? Looking at price points for high quality 1500 Watt amps seems a little out of my price range at the moment. I'm TRYING not to spend more than $300 on one, but want to fully power my Alpines.
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post #10 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 10:38 PM
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Subs are like everything else.The harder you push them the shorter they live.If you like to drive around pounding constantly at full volume a true 1000-1500watt amp will eventually kill them and your cars alternator and battery.If you only push them hard from time to time everything will be fine.

 The type of box there in can make a big difference also.

 Is it ported or sealed?

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post #11 of 19 Old 03-10-2014, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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The box is ported. I have done some research and how found that the box is set for 32 Hz. I'd still love to at least go double what I was doing with the Crunch amp, because it seems the subwoofers can handle it.
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post #12 of 19 Old 03-12-2014, 10:57 AM
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A good "cheaper" brand is Audiopipe. Have seen great results in ~5ish installs. Should be in your price range. Give a look at the 1800 watt@1 ohm model
http://www.audiopipe.com/car-audio/amplifiers/apcl/apcl-18001d

Under 300 bux 1100 watts @2 ohm

Or the 1500 watt@1 ohm
http://www.amazon.com/AUDIOPIPE-APCL-15001D-Class-D-Amplifier-APCL15001D/dp/B00BW54418/ref=sr_1_2?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1394646957&sr=1-2&keywords=audiopipe+amplifiers

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post #13 of 19 Old 04-03-2014, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I have just purchased the Audiopipe 1800 W Class D amplifier new from Amazon, because it was at a deal of $188.76 with FREE shipping and handling. Should have it within the next week. Should I be hooking this up the same way as I had the other amp? Is this strong enough to actually blow my speakers, or should I really be worried about the amp blowing more than anything again?

Another question. Would the Audiopipe APCL30001D 3000 Watt Monoblock be overkill? I am thinking of actually just cancelling my order for the 1800 watt amp and ordering the 3000 watt one, but am not sure if my Type-R 12" are actually going to be able to handle much more power than the 1800 watt. Also, I heard that to even USE the 3000 watt amp, you need to do some upgrading to your vehicle, even if you don't want to use it at full power. I NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!
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post #14 of 19 Old 04-04-2014, 09:17 PM
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The 1800 should be about perfect for the Type R 12's

 Everybody I know of that used the 3000 has blown them.It has 2 of the 1500's in the same heat sink in a bridged configuration that only makes them stable at 2 ohms.This makes them more sensitive to load variations at different frequencies.

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post #15 of 19 Old 04-07-2014, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBlackSunday View Post

I have just purchased the Audiopipe 1800 W Class D amplifier new from Amazon, because it was at a deal of $188.76 with FREE shipping and handling. Should have it within the next week. Should I be hooking this up the same way as I had the other amp? Is this strong enough to actually blow my speakers, or should I really be worried about the amp blowing more than anything again?

Another question. Would the Audiopipe APCL30001D 3000 Watt Monoblock be overkill? I am thinking of actually just cancelling my order for the 1800 watt amp and ordering the 3000 watt one, but am not sure if my Type-R 12" are actually going to be able to handle much more power than the 1800 watt. Also, I heard that to even USE the 3000 watt amp, you need to do some upgrading to your vehicle, even if you don't want to use it at full power. I NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by StereoTech62 View Post

The 1800 should be about perfect for the Type R 12's
 Everybody I know of that used the 3000 has blown them.It has 2 of the 1500's in the same heat sink in a bridged configuration that only makes them stable at 2 ohms.This makes them more sensitive to load variations at different frequencies.

Stereotech is spot on. I have seen 3 installs that used the 3000. only one of them had the wiring correct and the electrical up to par for using a 3000 watt amp. The other two killed their amps because they decided to "rewire" for more power cause their friends told them how they could get more dbeeez by dropping the ohms yo! rolleyes.gif

On top of having barely the electrical to support 3000 watts just on the subs.

remember that it takes power to make power. If you are expecting to rock out with bass heavy content music for long stretches of time, stock electrical will have a hard time keeping up with the 1800 amp. So imagine doing that with almost double the power and power requirements...eek.gif

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post #16 of 19 Old 04-08-2014, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post


Stereotech is spot on. I have seen 3 installs that used the 3000. only one of them had the wiring correct and the electrical up to par for using a 3000 watt amp. The other two killed their amps because they decided to "rewire" for more power cause their friends told them how they could get more dbeeez by dropping the ohms yo! rolleyes.gif

On top of having barely the electrical to support 3000 watts just on the subs.

remember that it takes power to make power. If you are expecting to rock out with bass heavy content music for long stretches of time, stock electrical will have a hard time keeping up with the 1800 amp. So imagine doing that with almost double the power and power requirements...eek.gif

Very true. I figured that since I am going with the 1800 watt amplifier, and it being at 2 Ohm, instead of 1 Ohm, it's gonna be pushing 1100 Watts (Probably somewhere around 950 - 1000 Watts) and the subwoofers are 500 Watt RMS, so it'll be almost perfect.

I had a question about the bass knob. I understand completely that this is not a volume knob, and that it is actually just a wired dial for the "Gain" knob on the amp. I will be using the bass knob very rarely, only to turn it down or up in the range I need to. Now, with the bass knob, should I have the gain on the amp turned all the way down? Does the bass knob cancel out the knob on the amp? I want to exclusively use the bass knob instead of using the stereo deck like I used to in the past. I want to be able to use the bass knob from minimum to maximum without harming anything. I'm going to have all the bass and subwoofer options on my stereo deck at -15 (Sub Level) and -8 (Bass Level). I want to make sure I CAN NOT go past the highest point my amp can handle, in case friends want to mess around, because I have people in my car often.

In other words, I want the amp to only be using the correct amount of gain exclusively from the amp. I want nothing to change that, which is why I will be setting all my settings in the negatives. Do you understand what I mean? It's tough to explain....
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post #17 of 19 Old 04-09-2014, 07:44 AM
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How my remote gain adjust works:

I set the gain on my amp to the max level I want it.

Then you plug the remote gain adjust in. Max on the remote is the max level I set at the amp.

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post #18 of 19 Old 04-09-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome. I just got the amplifier in today and installed it as soon as I could. It works amazing, and it definitely sounds nicer than my last amp (Crunch). I am still trying to get everything perfect on the amp, but I was impressed at the sound when I first installed it. Drove around for 5 minutes, and parked somewhere to check the trunk to see how the speakers were moving, and ONLY ONE WAS WORKING. I removed the subwoofer from the box after checking to make sure all connections were correct and a wire had come undone while installing the speaker into the box. I was impressed with just one working, now it's DEFINITELY loud. :P

Still tough to set all the knobs by ear without having an oscilloscope or anything other tools. I do have a multi-meter, but I have no idea how to use it to set all the amp settings, so unless there is a tutorial out somewhere, I'm gonna stick with doing it by ear.
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post #19 of 19 Old 04-10-2014, 07:46 AM
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Set the subsonic/highpass filter to >20 hertz but less than 30 hertz to keep the subs from unloading under port tuning at highpower.

Lowpass filter would be set to 80 hertz to start. it's a good starting point. Raise or lower to better match the midbass drivers.

bass boost-set at zero. just say NOOOOOOOOOOOOO to boost. wink.gif

gain....
There are a ton of tutorials out there. here is one that should get you to the ball park and a decent seat with just a little math and a DMM

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/3704-how-to-set-your-amplifier-gain/

They even link the JL guide as well.

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