Best Brands for Sound Quality - Subs - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 40 Old 03-14-2008, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphis87 View Post

Im starting to think that CatmanIsGod does not know much about car audio from lookin at his other post in the car audio forum.

I still have much to learn. I've been into car audio for over 25 years ....competed up until about 10 years ago ....always placed in the top 3 ...never used an EQ. I had rather design a system properly instead of sticking a bunch of crap in a car then trying to 'fix it' with DSP. I am a purist ...not into 'boom and doom and bells and whistles and flasing lights'.

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post #32 of 40 Old 03-14-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CatmanIsGod View Post

My WORST experience with JL subs was in a JL enclosure. It was a Stealthbox with 8W6's in a Miata. There is more to SQ than distortion.

>^..^<

True, there is also frequency response as I mentioned above. And JL subs do very well with each. If the enclosure wasn't the issue then maybe the amp wasn't set up properly? Or maybe your expectations were off somehow? What exactly didn't you like about it?

Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to your opinion. But I've enjoyed the sound of every JL sub I've heard and I believe they make one of the best SQ subs on the market in the W7.
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post #33 of 40 Old 03-15-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

True, there is also frequency response as I mentioned above. And JL subs do very well with each. If the enclosure wasn't the issue then maybe the amp wasn't set up properly? Or maybe your expectations were off somehow? What exactly didn't you like about it?

Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to your opinion. But I've enjoyed the sound of every JL sub I've heard and I believe they make one of the best SQ subs on the market in the W7.

The amps were not off. Like I said in a previous post ....I've been doing this for 25 years. I'm not some punk kid in a Civic that just wants to boom. I have tried the JL drives with several amps ....including old school Nakamchi, Mcintosh, Soundstream and Orion HCCA ...my experiences were all similar. The JL subs are a 'good' sub ....and are probably 'good enough' for most people ...they are well made ...they just don't meet my demands. They are a good mix of SPL and SQ ....but I won't sacrafice SQ for SPL. My experience is that they are not as 'musical' as other subs (they are not as 'boxy' as others) ...the low end extension is not there either. (they are fine for rap, rock or country ...but not for music with real low bass content) I have found that they need to be in an enclosure a little on the large side from what JL recommends. The biggest difference was when I got fed up with the 8W6's in the Stealthbox and upgraded to Image Dynamic subs ....the ID8's sounded exponentially better (in the JL enclosure) than the JL drivers did. I have compared other JL drivers in my cars to various other drivers ...some of the other drivers didn't measure up either. JL is a lot like Bose ...created an illusion of quality through advertising and high prices. JL is over priced and over rated. JL is not a 'high end' brand ...they are a 'high priced' brand and there is a difference. If kept 'in their league' they are a good sub ...but are FAR from being 'the best'.
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post #34 of 40 Old 03-15-2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanIsGod View Post

....but I won't sacrafice SQ for SPL. My experience is that they are not as 'musical' as other subs (they are not as 'boxy' as others) ...the low end extension is not there either. (they are fine for rap, rock or country ...but not for music with real low bass content) I have found that they need to be in an enclosure a little on the large side from what JL recommends.

I'm not surprised you weren't happy with the extention of an 8" sub, especially if your Miata is a soft top. You may prefer subs that overexadurate the lowest octaves like the ID subs. This is also shown by your preference with the larger enclosure for the JL subs. The JL subs have parameters that provide a nice flat response when matched up with the cabin gain of the vehicle. Their low end extention is just fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanIsGod View Post

JL is a lot like Bose ...created an illusion of quality through advertising and high prices. JL is over priced and over rated. JL is not a 'high end' brand ...they are a 'high priced' brand and there is a difference. If kept 'in their league' they are a good sub ...but are FAR from being 'the best'.
>^..^<

Wow, comparing them to Bose? That's just absurd. JL Audio employes some great engineers which becomes very obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about speaker design. Since you like ID so much, let's compare the two companies reference subs.

Here's a DUMAX report of an IDMAX: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/IDMAX.pdf

And here's a DUMAX report of a 10W7: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/JL-10W7.pdf

Specifically look at the curves at the bottom of the page. The left curve is a measurement of the motor force (BL) over excursion. The more the BL changes durring excursion, the higher the distortion. I should also note that BL based distortion is responsible for about 70% of the distortion produced by a speaker. As you can see the W7 keeps it's BL much flatter over excursion than the Max. This is because of some expensive, but smart design techniques built into the motor by JL's engineers. The IDMAX uses a standard overhung motor. So now which sub is out of their league? After all, this is just one part of the sub that is superior. I'll bet the engineers at ID would love to have the spider used in the W7 as well.
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post #35 of 40 Old 03-15-2008, 11:16 PM
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If JL are 'good enough' for you or anyone else ....use them ...just don't try to convince me they are 'great'.

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post #36 of 40 Old 03-30-2008, 08:43 PM
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Rockford Fosgate make some real good subs. The Punch series of subs offer incredible value. I had a pair of 12" P1's in a q-logic ported box with a 970W Power Acoustik amp and they absolutely thumped. Stock VW premium speakers (some of the best factory speakers I've ever heard in any car) and the SQ was great. The two subs were a whopping $40 a piece...

The Power series subs are absolutely insane. The T2's pound harder than the W7's.
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post #37 of 40 Old 03-30-2008, 11:17 PM
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yeah but the t2's sound like **** compared to a dub7

Northern Illinois University 2010
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post #38 of 40 Old 03-31-2008, 05:19 PM
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I don't buy the JL subs are crap story, but I will secede to personal preferences. I've been in the car audio industry for quite some time as well, and I've heard expensive gear sounds like ass, and crappy gear sound alright. When it comes to subwoofers, there's a significant difference between brands and models. It all depends on what you're going for. For daily use and a variety of music, JL is really hard to beat. If you like rap or bass music, I would certainly steer away from JL.

It's one thing to hear lots of bass, but it's another to have bass make your heart skip beats and have it pound your every sense, make your eyes blur so much it sucks to keep them open, and make you feel like you're going to pass out. Most people have never heard the latter type (even though they say they have), but until you do, you don't have a clue. JL Audio has a 'listening' level of bass that's great for the daily driver. But it's tough to beat a treated, thick paper cone for depth of bass. Rockford Fosgate used to make some nice ones back in the day (early 90's).

Today everyone touts the ability to handle power. I really don't understand this, particularly when 80% of people don't even know the proper way to set an amp gain. IMO, it's nothing but marketing. Poly-propyl-whatever. "Space age materials." Whatever. The point of car audio is to enjoy the MUSIC, not have more power or better gear than someone else. It really does take a long time to really find out what you like best, and that's what makes the hobby fun: the experimentation. It took me forever to blend insane bass with extrodinary SQ; it took forever to create a system that would play the subtlest of details like it fell from the breath of an angel and play the most aggressive of beats with a force that would grab a butt cheek or two and not let go. THAT'S excitement, and that's what keeps me in the hobby.

I'm a purist at heart...I don't like sound processors. I believe if you can't get things right with equipment selection and install technique, you need to keep working and experimenting. But seriously, CartmanIsGod, don't you ever compare JL Audio to Bose. Did you spend your 25 years learning nothing?
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post #39 of 40 Old 04-16-2008, 10:38 AM
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SQ subs i would choose

ID Max
Velodyne
Bravox
Focal
MB Quart
RE XXX

Those are a couple i would choose for SQ

I love my RE SX's for SQL though great subs for the price. I give each one of my RE SX10's 1000 watts each and they sound amazing and they want more power.
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post #40 of 40 Old 04-16-2008, 10:41 AM
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hybrid audio
hertz
dls

to name a few.

im purple!
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psn:antishock
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