Official Sony HDR-SR11/12 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by traveaso25 View Post

Hey Paul that looks amazing. Very nice. I am also on there. So when i get my SR11 next week lokk me up. Im under as Travis W. I look forward to see some more work from you on there :P

Thats not me or my video. I just wanted to clear that up.

But I am on VIMEO and will post my vids as soon as I get the new cc
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post #92 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Fort View Post

I checked on this clips as well in vegas and could not see any problems at all.
So, we'll see how this becomes an issue or not.

I installed Vegas 8 pro trial version and there you go: no problems:-). The rendered output also looks fine. So there's something specific to the SR11 video's that requires a different codec (maybe the high profile adaptive 4x4 block). After installing Vegas, still all other programs can't play it without these occasional block corruptions at fixed points.

So which codecs to install to render it correctly in other programs? It seems K-Lite codec pack doesn't work properly with Sony AVCHD high profile.

The HF10 samples didn't show any problems on my machine (and neither did previous Sony AVCHD samples).
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post #93 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I also have 8 HF10 video's with no problems either.

Luc, can you post a link to the HF10 videos. I've only seen a couple of very very brief clips.

Looking again, I see no pixellization or anomolies on the frame you posted as I play the clip on my computer. As far as codecs are concerned, I downloaded the Core AVC codec.
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post #94 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Luc, can you post a link to the HF10 videos. I've only seen a couple of very very brief clips.

Looking again, I see no pixellization or anomolies on the frame you posted as I play the clip on my computer. As far as codecs are concerned, I downloaded the Core AVC codec.

I got HF10 clips from these places:

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hf10/
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...6/zooma344.htm

The first link has some torture movement tests:-). The long low quality clip has also low-light examples. I think noise levels are at least as good as SR11. Also it seems again that focusing in low-light is a bit faster and more accurate with the Canon.
Seeing these clips I'd say the HF10 compression is adequate for my needs and a touch softer than the HV20.

I'm going on a trip to Sedona mid April and if the HF100 isn't available at that point I'll buy the SR11 and I will do some direct comparisons to my HV20. Otherwise I'll try the HF100 since it's cheaper and I don't care for a HDD since SDHC 16GB card are cheap.

I wonder why Sony doesn't make the codecs available for free (sure Core AVC codec has only a little fee).
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post #95 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 01:57 PM
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I wanted to ask someone to test the candle exposure mode on the SR11 or SR12.

I am really curious about that mode. I wonder how it would do with just 5 or so candles.

I don't mean the whole room but just the candles and the area around them.

Or even a Birthday cake with candles and no other light on.
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post #96 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I got HF10 clips from these places:

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hf10/
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...6/zooma344.htm

The first link has some torture movement tests:-). The long low quality clip has also low-light examples. I think noise levels are at least as good as SR11. Also it seems again that focusing in low-light is a bit faster and more accurate with the Canon.
Seeing these clips I'd say the HF10 compression is adequate for my needs and a touch softer than the HV20.

I'm going on a trip to Sedona mid April and if the HF100 isn't available at that point I'll buy the SR11 and I will do some direct comparisons to my HV20. Otherwise I'll try the HF100 since it's cheaper and I don't care for a HDD since SDHC 16GB card are cheap.

I wonder why Sony doesn't make the codecs available for free (sure Core AVC codec has only a little fee).

I saw those clips, but unfortunately they can't be used in ULead Studio 11+ for the purpose of burning to a DVD-R. That's the only way I can determine the quality (hooked up to my 60" plasma). To be honest the fan clips are pretty useless IMO in determining overall picture quality.

The outdoor clip of the skyline is far better but can't be used in burning to a DVD-R for HD playback on a Blu Ray player. It's a weird extension .dmg and no matter what I did with it (including turning it in to an .iso file) did nothing to get it to DVD. He had no native AVCHD clips that could be used.

I was leaning toward the Canon HF10, but based on what I've seen with the SR12, I'm not so sure anymore. If, as the author of those clips stated, it's only the equal of the HG10, than that would tell me it's not as good as the SR11 or SR12. I say that because the HV20 is already better than the HG10 and my testing has shown the SR12 to be at least the equal of the HV20...at least to my eyes. I've gone buggy eyed doing these A/B tests.

Luc, I'm not sure you'd need the Core AVC codec with the included Sony software. I've learned the software a bit better over the last couple of days and it's really not so bad. I've found you don't need to do 'analysis' on the clips when transferring them to computer. This greatly increases transfer speed and the speed is now what I'd expect from cam to computer...very fast. The playback software is also nice in that it shows you thumbnails of all the clips on the cam's hard drive.

Generally speaking though, at least in my case, I'd rarely use the computer for playback given the much much better quality on my plasma.
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post #97 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Fort View Post

I wanted to ask someone to test the candle exposure mode on the SR11 or SR12.

I am really curious about that mode. I wonder how it would do with just 5 or so candles.

I don't mean the whole room but just the candles and the area around them.

Or even a Birthday cake with candles and no other light on.

Sorry Paul, I've got no candles.
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post #98 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 02:45 PM
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You can use MacDrive trial to open the DMG (http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/). I extracted the .MTS files successfully.

The other files are .mov file and installing Quicktime should give you the codecs to load it into VS.

I confirmed that ffdshow causes these weird 'dropout' for the SR11 clips only whereas Core AVC codec does not... Pretty screwed up that some AVC codecs don't work. Sony Vegas Pro looks like a great program but it's $460 and I only got a trial. Without the Core AVC installation you probably would run into the same issue with VS11+ I believe.

I agree the fan clip is rather limited for evaluation (he tested this for the different framerates but the fan doesn't move that smooth to start with).
I also noticed with the construction clips more purple fringing than the HV20 and most likely SR11 as well. Second known issue with Canon is white balance. The sky looks slightly purplish (HV20 has that issue now and then as well). On the other hand the auto-focus in low-light appears to be still not that great with Sony.

Do you have both the SR11 and HV20? I only looked at individual different clips and I think in some instances the SR11 does look bit softer especially indoors than the HV20. But I can't tell unless someone would shoot the same scene with both cams.
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post #99 of 3108 Old 03-11-2008, 08:08 PM
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Luc, I only open those clips in a limited way with that macdrive. When I try to get them in to ULead Studio 11+, I get a 'read/write' error from Windows and it then reports a lost data issue. I had to reboot to get things running again. I don't think I'll ever got those files to a DVD-R for playing in a Blu Ray player. I'll wait for someone to post some native files without the .dmg extension.

The HF10 just got an excellent review over at CCI. They found the resolution to be higher than the HV20 and found it difficult to tell the two apart in most instances. This is the first time they actually raved about an AVCHD camcorder. I'm not surprised as I've believed the latest gen of AVCHD cams is now on par with HDV if not better in some ways.
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post #100 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 01:17 PM
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for the user that tested the SR12:
-what about the optical stabilisation
and what about:
-the autofocus?
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post #101 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 01:48 PM
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Sequencer, the autofocus was a pleasant surprise. It is quick and accurate and probably the best I've encountered on a Sony cam. I recall testing two Sony CX-7s and finding the autofocus miserable in the Best Buys I tested them at.

Image stabilization is very good, but it's still a challenge to hold it steady at full zoom. It's one of the reasons I hate to see cams without viewfinders, they're just tougher to hold steady.
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post #102 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 02:00 PM
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I cannot fathom why they aren't including a viewfinder on the Canon HF line
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post #103 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persiannight View Post

I cannot fathom why they aren't including a viewfinder on the Canon HF line

It is bizarre isn't it? I mean really, even though the HF10 is small, you still could have included a viewfinder without significantly affecting size. Don't they realize they're tougher to steady without one. AND, if you use reading glasses like certain people I know, that's an additional pain of the LCD flipout.
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post #104 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 02:43 PM
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Is the LCD on the SR11/12 really all it's cracked up to be?
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post #105 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Sequencer, the autofocus was a pleasant surprise. It is quick and accurate and probably the best I've encountered on a Sony cam. I recall testing two Sony CX-7s and finding the autofocus miserable in the Best Buys I tested them at.

Image stabilization is very good, but it's still a challenge to hold it steady at full zoom. It's one of the reasons I hate to see cams without viewfinders, they're just tougher to hold steady.

I can attest to the SR12's autofocus..very fast and nice image stabilization.

I really don't know how Canon can compete with this model.....pretty early.... but I would call the SR11/12 camcorders of the year.

3.2 LCD is really sharp and nice......must wait for HF100.....
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post #106 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 04:07 PM
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Eric, despite the HF10 clips posted thus far, I do think the HF10/HF100 will compete well with the SR11/SR12 in the picture quality department. However, the Canons will lack the viewfinder, large and gorgeous flip-out LCD, 5.1 surround sound (which must be heard to be believed) and huge storage capacity. On the other hand the Sonys won't have the 24p/30p and smaller form factor if that's important to you.

But hey, this is a nice decision to have to make, two great cams.
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post #107 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 04:23 PM
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I only read positive feedback from SR12 o-:

Is there some negativ at all (except the alleged fragments problem)
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post #108 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 06:04 PM
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I got my hands on a SR11 briefly today at Costco. It had no power, so I was just examining the look and feel. I was quite impressed with the build quality. It felt solid and well laid out. There are no dangling port covers, all ports are covered with nice doors that slide or flip open and are attached to the camera. Even the shoe cover slides back and stays nicely in place. It felt much better than the HG10 and HV20 that I have handled briefly.

On the downside, I was a little disappointed with the size. It is as big as an HV20, with a similar "appendage" on the side of the body. A hard drive is smaller than a tape mechanism, so they should have been able to make the appendage a bit smaller. I also don't know if I would like the touch screen. I touched it and immediately saw finger prints. The prints are probably less noticeable when the screen is powered on, but still it's going to collect a lot of them. I also don't know why they put the manual control dial on the front. It would have made more sense to have a jog dial type control on the back for one-handed operation.
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post #109 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 06:08 PM
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Spocko, you are right about the build quality. It's about as good as it gets with a consumer camcorder.

I also agree with you regarding the fingerprints on the LCD. I have no idea why Sony doesn't give you the option to navigate using a dial as opposed to having to touch the LCD. Granted a quick wipe with a microfiber cloth brings it back to a spotless condition, but why should we have to do that?
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post #110 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sequencer View Post

I only read positive feedback from SR12 o-:

Is there some negativ at all (except the alleged fragments problem)

That turned out to be a codec issue... Bad if you wouldn't notice this and you're not using Sony Vegas (or the core avc codec).

Some other potential negatives:
- Slow auto-focus in low-light looking at the video clips (all the Sony's I owned had the same issue). The Canon's focus faster in low-light.
- Limited manual control even though most don't use these. For example no shutter or aperty priority control (except some programmed scenes).

Otherwise it does appear to be a great camera.

I did test the surround on my surround system and sounded certainly great. But I haven't yet analyzed the stream to see if the seperation is really big. According to CCinfo it's just a gimmick (which I would guess since the channels mics are very close to each other). Would be great to test this turning around with a fixed sound source at 1 point.

PS I wonder if you could copy the memorystick contents to HDD. That way you could always make a backup of the memorystick contents.
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post #111 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

PS I wonder if you could copy the memorystick contents to HDD. That way you could always make a backup of the memorystick contents.

I found nothing in the manual so I guess not but I have a notebook so with a cheap Sandisk mobilemate adapter I can easily transfer.

I also found something interesting in the SR11 manual. There's a conversion lens setting where you can choose WIDE CONVERSION or TELE CONVERSION. So possibly choosing TELE CONVERSION could give you more steadyshot correction (and hopefully no other side-effects if you don't really have one attached).

I've sent an e-mail to Sony if you can operate the SR11 at higher altitudes if you would not use the HDD but memory stick. That is one of my concerns with HDD.

PS I noticed the manual says only 8GB memory sticks are supported... Pretty stupid but maybe it's only precaution and you could try 16GB anyway.
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post #112 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 08:13 PM
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I received my SR12 today and don't have any problems so far. Certain negative points:

1) Camera gets hot after intensive use at the righ-down side. Battery seems to be just warm.

2) I have a UV filter and it makes my flash unusable (Flash is disabled when UV lens is attached). Do I really need this UV filter?

3) Manual says that Standard DVD players will not play HD content. Is it true?

I orderedmy camera with basic accessories, which included LCD protectors; an akward (not OEM) FPH70 spare battery, which requires connection from battery to
DC IN port; 37 mm UV lens; mini tripod; bag and cleaning kit.

Does anyone tried to use the supplied software utility to burn DVD. Will it work on standard (old) DVD players?
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post #113 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I did test the surround on my surround system and sounded certainly great. But I haven't yet analyzed the stream to see if the seperation is really big. According to CCinfo it's just a gimmick (which I would guess since the channels mics are very close to each other). Would be great to test this turning around with a fixed sound source at 1 point.

No gimmick at all. My buddy and I did a test almost like you suggested. I pointed the cam at him at the beginning of the clip as he was talking. I kept the cam pointed in one direction as he walked in a complete circle around me while continuing to talk. When we played it back, we could clearly hear him walking around the room as his voice shifted from speaker to speaker. No gimmick, it works. I wouldn't say it was a 90db seperation, but you could clearly hear the shift of his voice around the room.

We thought it was pretty amazing. In addition to that, you get an ambiance I've never heard in a consumer camcorder with 2-channel sound.

In terms of copying, you can copy from the HDD to the memory stick, but you can't do that in reverse. But the direction is logical since the concern is not losing info on the memory stick, but rather the HDD. You can always transfer from memory stick to home computer.
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post #114 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

PS I noticed the manual says only 8GB memory sticks are supported... Pretty stupid but maybe it's only precaution and you could try 16GB anyway.

I think the verbiage is that 'only 8 gig memory sticks have been tested", but I could be wrong. That's different than saying "16 gig sticks are not supported". But I've read somewhere that it would have no issue with 16gig sticks.
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post #115 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madi123 View Post

I received my SR12 today and don't have any problems so far. Certain negative points:

1) Camera gets hot after intensive use at the righ-down side. Battery seems to be just warm.

2) I have a UV filter and it makes my flash unusable (Flash is disabled when UV lens is attached). Do I really need this UV filter?

3) Manual says that Standard DVD players will not play HD content. Is it true?

I orderedmy camera with basic accessories, which included LCD protectors; an akward (not OEM) FPH70 spare battery, which requires connection from battery to
DC IN port; 37 mm UV lens; mini tripod; bag and cleaning kit.

Does anyone tried to use the supplied software utility to burn DVD. Will it work on standard (old) DVD players?

1) Yes it's normal with any HD camcorder. The circuitry that processes HD tends to run hot in any of these cams.

2) I've never used a UV or skylight filter on any cam I've owned, but some feel more comfortable with it. I find with the automatic lens cover it's really not essential. Your call.

3) Yes it's true. No standard DVD player is capable of playing HD content from any cam or any Hollywood movie.

The included software will and can burn HD content from the camcorder to an ordinary DVD-R for playback in true HD on a Blu Ray player. But again, since this is HD content it will not play on a regular DVD player. Time to spring for a Blu Ray player my friend.
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post #116 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 10:15 PM
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I have a simple question about archiving the video I shoot. Lets say I shoot about 2 hours of family stuff but not all in one shot, of course.

I assume the original file stored in the camcorded hard drive is an .m2ts file??? I want to save this original on a DVD to archive it. What is the best way to go about creating a data disc. Also I have read that the Sony Playstation 3 will play AVCHD. Does this mean the raw .m2ts file?

So here is the question.

1. what is the best way to make a data disc?
2. will this data disc play on the sony playstation 3 (even though its not a HD DVD or Blue ray) it would just be a standard DVD.
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post #117 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Fort View Post

I have a simple question about archiving the video I shoot. Lets say I shoot about 2 hours of family stuff but not all in one shot, of course.

I assume the original file stored in the camcorded hard drive is an .m2ts file??? I want to save this original on a DVD to archive it. What is the best way to go about creating a data disc. Also I have read that the Sony Playstation 3 will play AVCHD. Does this mean the raw .m2ts file?

So here is the question.

1. what is the best way to make a data disc?
2. will this data disc play on the sony playstation 3 (even though its not a HD DVD or Blue ray) it would just be a standard DVD.


pretty easy actually and I'm a newbie myself with HD camcorders. Just take the .m2ts files and burn them onto a dvd using your favorite burner software. I used burn4free. Also, make sure to include your audio files(forgot the suffix for those). Pop it into the PS3 and there you get your hidef video on a standard dvd. Also, if you want to save dvds but still want to see how the video looks, you can use a USB drive. Just make sure to put the files under a /video folder.
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post #118 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

1) Yes it's normal with any HD camcorder. The circuitry that processes HD tends to run hot in any of these cams.

2) I've never used a UV or skylight filter on any cam I've owned, but some feel more comfortable with it. I find with the automatic lens cover it's really not essential. Your call.

3) Yes it's true. No standard DVD player is capable of playing HD content from any cam or any Hollywood movie.

The included software will and can burn HD content from the camcorder to an ordinary DVD-R for playback in true HD on a Blu Ray player. But again, since this is HD content it will not play on a regular DVD player. Time to spring for a Blu Ray player my friend.

Actually, the software that comes with the SR11/SR12 (Picture Motion Browser 3.0) gives you 3 options when you want to burn:
1. AVCHD disk (can be on a DVD+-R/W): this will arrange the video files into the AVCHD disk format to be played by the PS3 and/or AVCHD-enabled bluray players. This option doesn't require re-encoding and is pretty quick.
2. DVD-Video disk: this will re-encode the video files in non-HD MPEG2 (480i) so that it can be played on any old DVD player. HD quality is lost and the transcoding takes quite a lot of time (several hours).
3. Data-Disk creation: I haven't tried it, but this seem to let you create a data-disk that could be played on other computers. It probably could be used as a backup solution too.

In other words, there is a way to author disks to be played back in any DVD players with the provided software, but you won't get more than DVD quality from them. Alternatively, you can also create AVCHD disks that will preserve the original quality of the video footage and enable you to play it back on your computer, PS3 and some bluray players.

-eric
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post #119 of 3108 Old 03-12-2008, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I also found something interesting in the SR11 manual. There's a conversion lens setting where you can choose WIDE CONVERSION or TELE CONVERSION. So possibly choosing TELE CONVERSION could give you more steadyshot correction (and hopefully no other side-effects if you don't really have one attached)


This is a great question about stabilization. Any answers?

This camera seems to have a number of "hidden" features. The camera control button, if held down, puts up an LCD dispay of all the cam control functions. You can scroll thru them and select/cancel the one of choice. Very slick.
Night shot is cool , but autofocus seems pretty bad in nightshot mode. The IR light and close range is OK, but focus is painful otherwise.
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post #120 of 3108 Old 03-13-2008, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Danlew View Post

This camera seems to have a number of "hidden" features. The camera control button, if held down, puts up an LCD dispay of all the cam control functions. You can scroll thru them and select/cancel the one of choice. Very slick.

Dan, I don't recall if it was you that mentioned this 'hidden feature', but it was a great tip! VERY convenient being able to switch the mode of that front adjustment dial to any of the 4 picture parameters that can be altered.

I'll try to check today on that image stabilization thought. I know this came up with an earlier HDV Sony cam that had the same stabilization adjustments, but I don't recall what the end result was.
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