Official Sony HDR-SR11/12 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3108 Old 03-13-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHD4me View Post

I have a Q6600 running at 3.6 on air, an 8600GT video card, a 150gb Raptor for my system drive and a 500gb Seagate as my data drive. When I render HD videos in Vegas Pro, I find that each core of my cpu is only running at 30-50%. Is there anything I can do to get this closer to 100% and reduce render times?

I can't speak with absolute certainty on this but I believe that this is the software just being single threaded (i.e. only using one CPU). I have seen this before (with other single threaded software) but I don't know why Microsoft shows 50% on both CPUs instead of 100% on one and 0% on the other. If you turn off one of the CPUs in the BIOS, and reboot, I bet it jumps to 100% (just for testing obviously).

It my theory is correct, the resolution would only come with a software update from Vegas Pro to support multiple threads.

Again, just a theory on my part. No experience with Vegas Pro.

By the way, if a single CPU doesn't give you near 100%, then perhaps the storage subsystem is part of the issue but what you're doing sounds very CPU intensive, right?
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post #182 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ericjut View Post

I agree with you about the FX1 being on the blurry side compare to the new CMOS sensors, but I've yet to find another consumer HD camcorder with so little noise in low-light condition (it was a 3 lux camcorder afterall). Well, something's got to give when you reduce the size of a camcorder.

Yup, the FX1 was certainly the low light champ. I've yet to see another HD cam that could produce HD video as well in low light. Of course even the FX1 was a shadow of the VX2000/VX2100, but those were/are mini-DV cams.

I gave it up for the same reason...huge! It was embarrassing going anywhere with that beast. I felt like I should have an NBC badge on my shirt.
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post #183 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Fort View Post

Now bestbuy near me has a few SR11's so I don't understand how its working.
The local shop near me where I want to get mine told me that he got 20 SR12's in and 18 have sold. He is getting more in on friday. None of the SR10's sold yet.

Im close to pulling the trigger on the SR12 but the extre $200 is going take away from the sony vegas PRO 8 upgrade

Paul, even the clips posted in another thread from the SR10 look very nice. It looks as if the SR10 has no viewfinder though.
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post #184 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madi123 View Post

I also was waiting for a nice review, but I tired of waiting. I went to a pricegrabber and found that SR12 was already on sale for a $1200. Great!

This is my first camera and I'm really impressed. All my digital cameras are Canon (SD600, SD950) and for me it was really hard to choose between Canon and Sony. However, I left with a bunch of questions, which you might also have. So if someone will answer them I (myself) and other people who are researching will be very happy.

1) Is there any way to choose between 50i and 60i inside the camera, since I will be living in a place where 50Hz is used for electric bulbs after few months. I'm really concerned about flickering.

2) Which mode is better AVCHD at 5MB/s (1440x1080) or MPEG-2 at 9Mb/s (720x480) in terms of overall quality. (Like noise level, light sensitivity, detail processing, blocking, motion)

3) Can I copy the CD software installer (picture motion browser) to the Camcoder's Hard Drive? I just don't want to carry this CD to install software on other PCs.

4) Can I really take still images (photos) while recording a video if I'll buy a Sony Memory Stick? What will be the quality? 2MP or 10.2MP?

5) I found it akward that there is now way to pause the video recording, or I just missing something. So, there is no need in pause button anymore?

I used the sony Picture Motion Browser Software to convert the AVCHD to Standard MPEG-2 and it was done pretty quick (C2D 2.2GHz, 4GB RAM, 160GB 5400RPM, 8600M GT) for 2-5 min clips. Now I can watch all my clips on any DVD player before I'll buy a Blue Ray Disk player and/or recorder.

Madi, I'll try to answer what I can:

1) No. It's extremely rare to find a camera that can internally switch between 50i and 60i. Equipment bought for use in the U.S. will invariably be 60i and can't be switched. PAL versions will be 50i and of course those too can be bought in the U.S.

2) I think that's a tough question given that AVCHD is a far more efficient compession technology and a lower bitrate will produce the same quality as a higher bitrate in MPEG2. But with that said, you'd still need to do an A/B between two cams with those settings to see. Light sensitivity will be more a function of the sensor itself than the bitrate. Yes, a higher bitrate might produce a bit less noise, but the sensor and processing would be more important.

3) Interesting question, I doubt it, but I'm not sure. It seems to me that recording to the HDD is only via the camcorder. But wouldn't it be just as easy to put the CD on a small memory stick or flash drive? They're tiny.

4) Yes you can. I don't take still pix with my videocams since I've never seen one that can come close to a good still digicam, so I'm not sure of the quality of the SR11/SR12. It seems the megapixel count in videocams has little to do with the ultimate picture quality from what I've seen from posted pix.

5) Get used to AVCHD. Everytime you pause the recording, you're creating a new file. But in playback it's seamless, so it's no big deal.
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post #185 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 05:23 AM
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Let me share another "hold button" tip: If you hold the Display button for a couple of seconds, it would turn off the LCD screen. Press it again to turn the LCD screen on.
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post #186 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 06:18 AM
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Just to let you know, if you're in Canada...

the SR11 is 1299$ and the SR12 is 1499$ (sony price)... Yeah i know 100$ more than the US... It's not fair since CAN$ is worth the same or more than the US$ now... oh well...

But this week, Future Shop (like best buy) is doing a sale on the SR11... for 1199$ (same US price) and give with it the Pinnacle Movie Studio Ultimate 11 for free...

So for all canadian on here, it's could the a goood time to buy the SR11.

I''ll be running to the store later today.... but ill try to have something else free, since I'm on MAC... with already Final Cut.... so no need Pinnacle.

Annyone on here tried the SR11 or 12 on MAC ????
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post #187 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Paul, even the clips posted in another thread from the SR10 look very nice. It looks as if the SR10 has no viewfinder though.

Ken is correct... The SR10 has no viewfinder, and I know that is a dealbreaker for some people. However as my test clips show I have done some shooting in bright outdoor sunlight, and while the LCD screen was washed out, I could always tell what I was shooting.

Greg
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post #188 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madi123 View Post

4) Can I really take still images (photos) while recording a video if I'll buy a Sony Memory Stick? What will be the quality? 2MP or 10.2MP?

Here's how pictures work on the SR11: there are two modes on the camcorder, and picture taking behaves differently between the two.

Mode #1: Video - The aspect ratio and the resolution are fixed to widescreen 7.1MP, independently of if you're recording video or not. The flash is disabled in that mode. Note that you can use night shot to take photos, but you can't apply "pict effect" (which are misleadingly called, since they're really video effects).

Mode #2: Photo - You can choose which resolution the picture will be taken from VGA to 10MP (only one widescreen res is available though, which is the same as 7.1MP).

You can set the pictures to record on the HDD or the stick, and do so independently of the video. Personally, I didn't take any chance of any hiccup on the video side and just bought a 4GB stick from Costco ($30) that I'm planning to use to record photos.

Quality-wise, from what I see on the 7.1MP and 10MP pictures I took so far, they seem to be of similar quality (no degradation of the color quality in video mode). There's obviously some interpolation done to get both resolutions and it shows a little on the effective resolution when compared to true 10MP pictures. But they're also looking sharper than a 4-5MP to me. I hope an incoming professional review will do some resolution tests on the photos coming out of the SR11, as I know countless of people that are looking for good hybrid (good camera taking decent HD video or good camcorder taking decent hi-rez pictures), and with my experience so far, the SR11 could be what they were looking for.

-eric
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post #189 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlscream View Post

Annyone on here tried the SR11 or 12 on MAC ????

There's a whole thread on an other popular forum just dedicated to the SR11 on the mac. Check your PM.
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post #190 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericjut View Post

There's a whole thread on an other popular forum just dedicated to the SR11 on the mac. Check your PM.


I'm on a mac too, any chance I could get this PM?
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post #191 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 09:33 AM
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I have been waiting for this type of clip and finally it came. The SR12 at night
http://www.vimeo.com/782786

I find the noise levels to be good (good enought for me to upgrade anyway)
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post #192 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 10:09 AM
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I redid the comparison this morning with almost same zoom setting (and I did remove the wide-angle lens). Here are the image gallery (more comparisons will follow this weekend):

http://lucienk.spaces.live.com/photo...B12A26635!673/

Click full screen to compare (or download). Points to check: marble around fire place, sofa fabric.

To be honest I'm more interested in sunny daylight comparisons since that's what I typically shoot. But it's been raining last couple of days. Hopefully there will be a break in the weather tomorrow so I can finally compare it.

I will also post later on Vimeo.com the video's (at high bit rate so you can download instead of lower quality streaming).
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post #193 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I redid the comparison this morning with almost same zoom setting (and I did remove the wide-angle lens). Here are the image gallery (more comparisons will follow this weekend):

http://lucienk.spaces.live.com/photo...B12A26635!673/

Click full screen to compare (or download). Points to check: marble around fire place, sofa fabric.

To be honest I'm more interested in sunny daylight comparisons since that's what I typically shoot. But it's been raining last couple of days. Hopefully there will be a break in the weather tomorrow so I can finally compare it.

I will also post later on Vimeo.com the video's (at high bit rate so you can download instead of lower quality streaming).



Ok I'll guess again HV20 on left??

Well all I can say is that they are both very close in quality and noise. Each has weak areas as well as strong one's.
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post #194 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 11:03 AM
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Less stair-stepping on the SR11, most likely due to full 1920x1080 res.
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post #195 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 11:50 AM
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I added one outdoor example (cloudy conditions but bright).

Yes left is HV20. I wish someone could do another outdoor test comparison as I didn't expect this outdoor difference:

http://zbanuw.bay.livefilestore.com/...-uLm87T_Q3tjug

Both cameras were on auto and I used the FP mode on the SR11. I'll do another test tomorrow.
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post #196 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Fort View Post

Ok I'll guess again HV20 on left??

Well all I can say is that they are both very close in quality and noise. Each has weak areas as well as strong one's.

Yup. Some areas of the same pix show more detail on one cam and another area shows more detail on the other. The one consistent is the much lower noise level of the SR11.

But again, I find these results totally academic since it's not moving video and has no relationship to moving video. I think most people that have used videocameras over the years know that any given camera might produce better stills than cam B, but cam B might produce better videos.

This is why I don't take these tests seriously. There is only one way to test 2 cams, side by side, same material, same time and same focal length with the same settings.
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post #197 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I added one outdoor example (cloudy conditions but bright).

Yes left is HV20. I wish someone could do another outdoor test comparison as I didn't expect this outdoor difference:

http://zbanuw.bay.livefilestore.com/...-uLm87T_Q3tjug

Both cameras were on auto and I used the FP mode on the SR11. I'll do another test tomorrow.

The picture of the grass is precisely what I'm talking about with moving videos vs still pix. There is no video clip I have from my SR12 that even comes close to being that soft and blurred...guys, not even close. In fact I honest to God think I would have a very difficult time producing a video clip that looked that soft on this cam. I've shot on cloudy days and my videos are much much sharper than those pix would suggest. The clips I've uploaded previously pretty much prove that.

Interestingly I just had a friend over during lunch who is also a videophile. I showed him my A/Bs of the HV20 vs the SR12 in a 'blindfold' fashion. He had no idea which clips came from which camera. He owns an HV20 and just got back from California with some footage shot with the HV20.

To be sure he wasn't cheating, I made sure the ambient noise in the room was loud enough so that he couldn't hear the tape transport of the HV20 running to give that away. Input switching was done by my Yamaha 3800, so even there, there was no clue on the screen since both cams showed "Input 4" on the Pioneer plasma.

His overall impression was precisely like mine, the SR12 looked more professional with just a slight amount more detail in some scenes than the HV20 but with a more professional, lower noise 'polished' look. He also preferred the SR12's color in many scenes, since he finds the HV20 tends a bit to magenta with some colors (like the sky). The Sony was a true sky blue.

He was suprised like me about the relatively poor showing of the clips posted thus far from the HF10. But he agreed with me that something must have been wrong with the way they set these cams up. Even though the SR12 was set to a lower rez, it still looked much better.

Bottom line? He'll be picking up the SR12 shortly.
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post #198 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I added one outdoor example (cloudy conditions but bright).

Yes left is HV20. I wish someone could do another outdoor test comparison as I didn't expect this outdoor difference:

http://zbanuw.bay.livefilestore.com/...-uLm87T_Q3tjug

Both cameras were on auto and I used the FP mode on the SR11. I'll do another test tomorrow.

Wow, thanks Luc!

I'm really impressed with the HV20 that is some tack sharp stuff.

Do you have any plans to purchase the HF100?
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post #199 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ericvonzipper View Post

Wow, thanks Luc!

I'm really impressed with the HV20 that is some tack sharp stuff.

Do you have any plans to purchase the HF100?

I have the HF100 on order. Problem is that I'm going on vacation mid April so not sure if I'll get one in time. I don't know yet if the HF100 will be adequate for my needs but hopefully there's some time for me to compare first.

I've posted the 2 comparison video's on vimeo (WMVHD 5Mbps, 2 pass). Direct download links (you need to log on to be able to download):

http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41212964
http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41245865
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post #200 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I would venture to say that Sony probably may of underestimated the popularity of the SR10/11/12 family.. seems to be a good seller!
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post #201 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:51 PM
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I would venture to say that Sony probably may of underestimated the popularity of the SR10/11/12 family.. seems to be a good seller!

Yeah, I just got a price adjustment from the place I bought mine (nearly $200!) and the guy was telling me they can't keep them in stock. This is the best Sony cam I've seen them make in years. In fact, I had almost given up on them!
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post #202 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:51 PM
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Hi guys, I havent brought a camcorder since almost 7-8 years ago. I'm really tempted to get the sr11. My biggest worry, is that my laptop isnt powerful enough. Its an Dell Inspiron 1500 with Intel dual core and barely hitting 2ghz, and it does have 1 gig of ram.

I'd like to film clips of my kid playing soccer, and taking pieces and combine them which I believe I can do with Sony Vegas, right? Also, I'm planning a trip this summer, and just filming and making clips as a hobby.

Sorry for the newb questions and concerns, but with this new camcorder and new file format, I dont want to be stuck with a slow laptop that cant handle all this video processing. I just want to have a good hd video experience thats all, and it would be my first time playing with video editing software like Sony Vegas
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post #203 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I have the HF100 on order. Problem is that I'm going on vacation mid April so not sure if I'll get one in time. I don't know yet if the HF100 will be adequate for my needs but hopefully there's some time for me to compare first.

I've posted the 2 comparison video's on vimeo (WMVHD 5Mbps, 2 pass). Direct download links (you need to log on to be able to download):

http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41212964
http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41245865

Both looked bad. You might want to try megadownload for full quality clips and when you do these tests, pan slowly. Your pans are much to quick and the artifacts in both cams is almost dizzying.
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post #204 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc48 View Post

I have the HF100 on order. Problem is that I'm going on vacation mid April so not sure if I'll get one in time. I don't know yet if the HF100 will be adequate for my needs but hopefully there's some time for me to compare first.

I've posted the 2 comparison video's on vimeo (WMVHD 5Mbps, 2 pass). Direct download links (you need to log on to be able to download):

http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41212964
http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41245865

Thanks for the videos!

I hope you get the HF100 before your vacation...would love to see a HV20/HF100/SR11 shootout!
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post #205 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocanyc View Post

Hi guys, I havent brought a camcorder since almost 7-8 years ago. I'm really tempted to get the sr11. My biggest worry, is that my laptop isnt powerful enough. Its an Dell Inspiron 1500 with Intel dual core and barely hitting 2ghz, and it does have 1 gig of ram.

I'd like to film clips of my kid playing soccer, and taking pieces and combine them which I believe I can do with Sony Vegas, right? Also, I'm planning a trip this summer, and just filming and making clips as a hobby.

Sorry for the newb questions and concerns, but with this new camcorder and new file format, I dont want to be stuck with a slow laptop that cant handle all this video processing. I just want to have a good hd video experience thats all, and it would be my first time playing with video editing software like Sony Vegas

The AVCHD format really taxes any computer, especially slow ones. If you're looking at the Sony, keep in mind that clips are 'stitched' together, so every time you hit 'pause' the clips will play back seamlessly. The reason I mention this is you can do rough edits within the cam (trimming clips) and maybe you can get away with just that and avoid the computer completely.

But yes, Vegas is probably the best right now although you can also use Ulead Studio 11+ which supports AVCHD and can handle the Dolby Digital 5.1 surround that the Sonys have.
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post #206 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The AVCHD format really taxes any computer, especially slow ones. If you're looking at the Sony, keep in mind that clips are 'stitched' together, so every time you hit 'pause' the clips will play back seamlessly. The reason I mention this is you can do rough edits within the cam (trimming clips) and maybe you can get away with just that and avoid the computer completely.

But yes, Vegas is probably the best right now although you can also use Ulead Studio 11+ which supports AVCHD and can handle the Dolby Digital 5.1 surround that the Sonys have.

So do you think I'll have slow performance issues? Or I should be ok?

Ultimately, if I want to share clips with family or save onto a dvd. How big of a process is this? I mean just a rough estimate of what steps are involved beginning with transfering AVCHD file to computer, etc? Thanks in advance. Trying to get a feel of what I would be in for.
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post #207 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken what does Ulead give you that Vegas doesn't? Is the interface better? I think I remember you saying that Ulead can't export 1920, right?
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post #208 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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Ken what does Ulead give you that Vegas doesn't? Is the interface better? I think I remember you saying that Ulead can't export 1920, right?

No, it can. It was Vegas that I couldn't export in 1920X1080. When my friend was over today we both looked at Vegas to see if maybe I overlooked something, but we can't find a setting for 1920X1080. When you select AVCHD, the highest quality is 1440X1080 at a 15mbps bitrate. So you lose quality on both bitrate and resolution. On the other hand, it seems Vegas handles AVCHD clips a bit smoother than ULead. But I do like the interface of ULead a little better.

We still need a really good editing program for this stuff. I'm hoping Grass Valley's Edius Pro will offer full support for AVCHD. Right now I can only import AVCHD into that program, but I have to export in HDV.

Maybe there's something I'm just not seeing in Vegas in terms of rez & bitrate.
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post #209 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 01:51 PM
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I have the HF100 on order. Problem is that I'm going on vacation mid April so not sure if I'll get one in time. I don't know yet if the HF100 will be adequate for my needs but hopefully there's some time for me to compare first.

I've posted the 2 comparison video's on vimeo (WMVHD 5Mbps, 2 pass). Direct download links (you need to log on to be able to download):

http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41212964
http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:41245865

nice comparison.

One thing we can say about the results is that the HDV and AVCHD formats have now become equal.
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post #210 of 3108 Old 03-14-2008, 02:01 PM
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nice comparison.

One thing we can say about the results is that the HDV and AVCHD formats have now become equal.

I certainly see no AVCHD compression artifacts so that's great. But I was hoping for a better outdoor SR11 performance but I'll repeat the test tomorrow. I do see smudging due to noise removal even in this cloudy shot. It could be my SR11 so I'm interested if someone could do the same thing if they have both cams.

I don't have any problem with the vimeo download quality and yes the panning is too fast (compression test).

PS I found VS 11.5 can open the SR11 files properly (11+ doesn't).
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