AVCHD: Vegas or Premiere? (Vegas doesn't support 24 Mbps?) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to edit some AVCHD (1080i, 24 Mbps) clips using Sony Vegas 8.1 and Adobe Premiere CS4.

I've used Sony Vegas in the past and I like it but I can't seem to render to 24 Mbps.

Vegas 8.1 comes with the Sony AVC and Mainconcept AVC encoders but the Sony AVC only supports up to Main Profile at 15 Mbps. The Mainconcept encoder supports Main profile up to 240 Mbps (?!?) but doesn't have any presets for 1080i so I'm not sure which settings are needed.

I haven't fooled around with Adobe Premiere CS4 but I've installed a trial version and it seems like a decent enough program. Will it be able to render to 1080i 24 Mbps?

I'm trying to render to the highest quality possible given my source material (Canon HF11/HF20, AVCHD, 1080i, 24 Mbps)...
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post #2 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

I'm trying to edit some AVCHD (1080i, 24 Mbps) clips using Sony Vegas 8.1 and Adobe Premiere CS4.

I've used Sony Vegas in the past and I like it but I can't seem to render to 24 Mbps.

Vegas 8.1 comes with the Sony AVC and Mainconcept AVC encoders but the Sony AVC only supports up to Main Profile at 15 Mbps. The Mainconcept encoder supports Main profile up to 240 Mbps (?!?) but doesn't have any presets for 1080i so I'm not sure which settings are needed.

I haven't fooled around with Adobe Premiere CS4 but I've installed a trial version and it seems like a decent enough program. Will it be able to render to 1080i 24 Mbps?

I'm trying to render to the highest quality possible given my source material (Canon HF11/HF20, AVCHD, 1080i, 24 Mbps)...

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I render to 1080i with the Mainconcept encoder all the time... I just open the Custom dialogue and type it in. Since then I have created my own preset and I experience no problems with it at all.

Steve
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post #3 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I can enter a custom resolution too but I found it odd that it didn't offer that as a preset. I was also hoping for a High Profile option instead of Baseline/Main but I don't know if this matters.

Anyways, what did you use for these options in the MainConcept encoder:

Allow source to adjust frame rate
Allow source to adjust frame size
Pixel aspect ratio
Number of reference frames
Use deblocking filter

Are the defaults pretty much best settings for the highest quality?
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post #4 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Yeah, I can enter a custom resolution too but I found it odd that it didn't offer that as a preset. I was also hoping for a High Profile option instead of Baseline/Main but I don't know if this matters.

Anyways, what did you use for these options in the MainConcept encoder:

Allow source to adjust frame rate
Allow source to adjust frame size
Pixel aspect ratio
Number of reference frames
Use deblocking filter

Are the defaults pretty much best settings for the highest quality?

Well, let's see. When encoding 30p, for instance, I use 29.970 for frame rate. Frame size, of course, depends on what resolution of video you're rendering... but the standard sizes all apply (such as 1440x1080 for 1080i and 1920x1080 for 1080p... though when rendering HD for web I generally use 1280x720). I leave the "let source adjust" boxes UNchecked, because I think I've found it to be problematic at times.

Pixel aspect ratio is 1 for everything I do, but then again, I shoot at 1920x1080, so I'm not sure when something like 1.333 would be called for in this.

Number of reference frames I never touch.

Use deblocking filter is always checked as it makes a big difference with quality.

I render to VBR for most of my projects, as it's typically for web. But all you have to do in either case is multiply your desired Mbps value by 1,000,000 and you've got your desired rate. For instance, 24 Mbps = 24,000,000 in the bps box. That's really all there is to it!

I hope this helps.

Steve
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post #5 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help!

Two quick questions though...

1) If I'm shooting at 60i, then wouldn't my frame rate still be 29.97 fps?

2) Why are you saying 1440x1080 for 60i and 1920x1080 for 30p? I thought that 60i is still 1920x1080?

There is quite a bit to learn about video editing, HD resolutions, etc! (I always thought 720p was 1280x720, and 1080p was 1920x1080 but I guess it gets a lot more complicated than that...)
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post #6 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Thanks for the help!

Two quick questions though...

1) If I'm shooting at 60i, then wouldn't my frame rate still be 29.97 fps?

2) Why are you saying 1440x1080 for 60i and 1920x1080 for 30p? I thought that 60i is still 1920x1080?

There is quite a bit to learn about video editing, HD resolutions, etc! (I always thought 720p was 1280x720, and 1080p was 1920x1080 but I guess it gets a lot more complicated than that...)

Er... Oh heck, you're right, I guess it was a little bit early when I typed up that part about the resolutions this morning. I actually am a bit sketchy on the specifics of each standard or resolution, though Wikipedia provides some helpful information as usual. All 1080p is 1920x1080, but I think 1080i is generally 1440x1080 with a 1.333 pixel aspect ratio (at least that seems to be the HDV standard). You can find these standards and their various parameters in the Vegas File > Properties dialog. That might help you quite a bit when choosing what to render to.

Most 720p LCD TVs are 1366x768 resolution I think, but rendering to higher resolutions simply leads them to downscale it to meet their needs. Either way, disregarding my untrustworthy advice regarding resolution settings, the rest of my process as detailed in the above post should work.

Steve
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post #7 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the reply.

It looks like the highest resolution possible for HDV is 1440x1080 which is their version of 1080i and 1080p, but AVCHD supports both 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 so I guess it is a little confusing.

I'll have to check my video files when I get home but I believe the Canon HF11 and HF20 both gave me 1920x1080 files (at least when I used the 24 Mbps quality setting).
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post #8 of 8 Old 04-13-2009, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Thanks again for the reply.

It looks like the highest resolution possible for HDV is 1440x1080 which is their version of 1080i and 1080p, but AVCHD supports both 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 so I guess it is a little confusing.

I'll have to check my video files when I get home but I believe the Canon HF11 and HF20 both gave me 1920x1080 files (at least when I used the 24 Mbps quality setting).

Yeah; on Canon's cams, anything below 17 Mbps results in a 1440x1080 1.333 pixel aspect file.

Steve
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