What 1080p model of camcorder is recommended? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 06-15-2009, 11:35 PM
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I give up trying to explain things to someone who has never even used one. All i say to anyone considering buying anything, is take peoples advice with a grain of salt, and try before you buy. That is, TRY various products and compare them.
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post #32 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

I give up trying to explain things to someone who has never even used one. All i say to anyone considering buying anything, is take peoples advice with a grain of salt, and try before you buy. That is, TRY various products and compare them.

Sorry for trying to get some information prior to purchasing? I happen to live in a location where Future Shop, SEARS, Costco, Visions, Wal-mart, London Drugs, and even two camera shops, DO NOT sell any Sanyo HD camcorders. So before I drive 3 hours to "try" one, I'd like some feedback (being a camcorder newbie), which people have been kind enough to give!

It's a little tough to compare cameras, when my only option is to order online.
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post #33 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mondoguitar View Post

Sorry for trying to get some information prior to purchasing? I happen to live in a location where Future Shop, SEARS, Costco, Visions, Wal-mart, London Drugs, and even two camera shops, DO NOT sell any Sanyo HD camcorders. So before I drive 3 hours to "try" one, I'd like some feedback (being a camcorder newbie), which people have been kind enough to give!

It's a little tough to compare cameras, when my only option is to order online.

My comment was directed at Pepster - not you, as he won't accept the 5D2 is anything but perfect for everbody's needs. He has also admitted to have never used one. That's why i said take the advice to purchase with a grain of salt. I am just pointing this out for the benefit of other readers. Wasn't really worth getting upset about. If i were you, i would drive 3 hours to try one out. Unless you're prepared to throw $2700 plus lenses on something that may or not work for you.
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post #34 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

My comment was directed at Pepster - not you, as he won't accept the 5D2 is anything but perfect for everbody's needs. He has also admitted to have never used one. That's why i said take the advice to purchase with a grain of salt. I am just pointing this out for the benefit of other readers. Wasn't really worth getting upset about. If i were you, i would drive 3 hours to try one out. Unless you're prepared to throw $2700 plus lenses on something that may or not work for you.

I apologize for that, I thought you were talking about the image stabilization. Anyways, after seeing some good sample videos from vimeo.com, I decided the stabilization issue was overblown (imo) and won't be a major factor for my personal use. I ordered from BHphotovideo today, hopefully I have it by the weekend.

Thanks for everyone's input. This is the only camcorder in my price-range and it has everything I need. I believe I started this thread by quoting my approximate budget, so it's confusing to me why some people posted much heftier camcorders? lol
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post #35 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Well pleasantly surprised by what Ronrosa was able to get out of his girlfriends first shoot with the Sanyo. Editing out the zoomaction it looks more stable than me shaking the Canon HF11, around.

http://www.vimeo.com/4616450

Did you use a musical track instead of natural audio due to the Xacti's poor audio quality, the FH1 not taking an external mic, or purely for editorial(artistic) reasons?........

Thanks. It was a low cost outdoor ceremony and reception. I didn't go to the wedding.

If I did, I probably would have used a voice recorder with lav mic to record the vows and another next to the boom box they used for music. For decent audio, the mic needs to be very close to the audio source, so you are talking long cable runs, wireless or totally separate portable audio recorders.

In general, all camcorder recorded audio is poor. A musical track just made the most sense.
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post #36 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ronaldkwok View Post

IS is Image Stabilisation or anti-shake. Sanyo uses Electronic IS while most of the rest uses Optical IS which works better. Wonder why Sanyo does not switch over to OIS.

Well like I said, I have an FH1 on the way, should be here by Friday. Thanks for posting the link to B&H, they really had some amazing prices. I bought a complete package of camera, battery, card and case.

I was also reading about the virtualdub plug-in "Deshaker"... seems like some people loved what it did. That will be something I will play with. Anyone have a comment about that plug-in?

Ultimately, I've seen some of the home videos online and that's exactly what I want. Mostly zoomed out home videos of our newborn and if there's stuff that requires a little more movement, I'll purchase a monopod/tripod.
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post #37 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ronrosa View Post

Thanks. It was a low cost outdoor ceremony and reception. I didn't go to the wedding.

If I did, I probably would have used a voice recorder with lav mic to record the vows and another next to the boom box they used for music. For decent audio, the mic needs to be very close to the audio source, so you are talking long cable runs, wireless or totally separate portable audio recorders.

In general, all camcorder recorded audio is poor. A musical track just made the most sense.

I also watched your video, that was pretty much what made up my mind to buy the FH1. Extremely vibrant colours with just some very minor stabilization issues. I wouldn't even mind the movement so much, it's just that sometimes it looks so blatently artificial.

As for the microphone, how would you have setup a lav mic with no mic input on the FH1? Are you talking about mixing the audio in after the fact?
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post #38 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 07:24 PM
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I would have used a portable audio/voice recorder in the grooms or ministers pocket with a lav mic. Synchronizing the audio in editing.

Outdoors, camcorder is 30+ feet away, people walking all over the place, and you want to record voice at normal speaking levels. Not too many alternatives in this situation other than a wireless mic.

BTW, you don't always need a tripod. Get creative. Set the camcorder down on a chair, table, shelf, rock, anything flat and stable. Use a book or magazine to angle the cam up or down. You don't always have to shoot eye level at a horizontal angle.
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post #39 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 09:14 PM
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Thats one of the ergonomic quirks of a dSLR video - with exception of nikon D5000. Usually no tilt viewfinder for high/low angles.

In regards to audio, try using a Beachtek XLR adaptor with a Sennheiser MKH416 shotgun mic. It is a great mic, well suited to dialog. Please, please don't turn a wedding in to a cheesy music video clip with no nat sounds and no dialog.
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post #40 of 56 Old 06-16-2009, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Just do what my wife and I did and have a concert setup, so when you give your vows, the stacked speakers do all the talking. It will drown out any nonsense chatter close to the camera.
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post #41 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 06:12 AM
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Hello Chevypower.

The video I made in no way was meant to compete with what a professional wedding videographer produces.

My girlfriend borrowed my Sanyo Xacti, went to a friends wedding, and asked me to make a video using the footage and pictures she took.

The bride and groom could not afford a photographer or videographer. All they had was photo and video by the guests. They were expecting to see raw unedited footage, so a cheesy music video was a nice surprise. After seeing the video on the internet, they asked for a copy on DVD, so they must have liked it.

But you are right. A wedding is a once in a lifetime event and if they can afford it, deserves to be captured by a professional using professional equipment. Not a girlfriend using a $500 Xacti.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

Thats one of the ergonomic quirks of a dSLR video - with exception of nikon D5000. Usually no tilt viewfinder for high/low angles.

In regards to audio, try using a Beachtek XLR adaptor with a Sennheiser MKH416 shotgun mic. It is a great mic, well suited to dialog. Please, please don't turn a wedding in to a cheesy music video clip with no nat sounds and no dialog.

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post #42 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 08:49 AM
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I will look up that Sennheiser V8 mentioned. XLR means it is part of this vendors more expensive range?

Ron what lapel mike are you recommending? Wireless or if on budget wired. Or what little mp3 player/recorder is a good budget option? No need to get up to an HHB or Fostex I guess (no budget for that, anyway;-)).

The Canon HF11 has a seperate mike input, and apparantly there are convertors for its proprietary hotshoe, so I should have some options available.

Need to do a wedding myself in a couple of months, and am a complete novice, so getting a bit nervous;-). They have a professional photographer, but the groom wasn't satisfied with the videos he had seen by local videographers, plus the additional cost, plus the video guy waiting for the photographer to take his shots before getting his shots in, prolonging all of the event, made him decide against it.

Plus videocamera set makes for a very nice wedding gift! Allowing him to document his new family life. That's why we went with the HF11 over the HF20, indoor shooting will be more prevalent than outdoor shoots.

We did get a reltively cheap tripod, though it is a full height one, not too smooth a plastic head though, this Velbon CX 540. But quite light at 1.6 kilogram. But as long as it hold the camera up, when I double as one of the witnesses...

Although, I supposedly need to get a filter as well, to help that shoot in the tropics.
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post #43 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 07:19 PM
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Wow, quite applicable device that Sennheiser, cost as much as two cameras, and quite a big stick (25 cm) to carry on top of a little consumer handheld. It's a condenser mic so it need to get a fair amount of phantom power from some external source as well.
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post #44 of 56 Old 06-17-2009, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Wow, quite applicable device that Sennheiser, cost as much as two cameras, and quite a big stick (25 cm) to carry on top of a little consumer handheld. It's a condenser mic so it need to get a fair amount of phantom power from some external source as well.

Depending on the model, the Beachtek will give it Phantom power. That mic works best at close proximity and pointed directly at subject with very little off-target tolerance, so i dont recommend camera mounting it. But it will give you the most clear, crisp, rich and full vocal sound you could ask for. It is worth the inconvenience. I like to mix in standard mini dv onboard stereo mic for nat sounds, another track for music -but dont overdo the music. Think about on movies, you never hear full tracks, and they don't lay the whole show with music clips.
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post #45 of 56 Old 06-18-2009, 03:16 PM
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Not sure a $1000 shotgun mic is what donaldk is looking for. He has a Canon HF11 and a Velbon CX 540 tripod. We all want to make great looking videos with awesome sound, but you can go crazy and bankrupt in the process.

Donaldk, you might do better starting a new thread or taking a look at the DVinfo forum.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/

Let people know what you want to do, what your budget is and what you expect the finished product to look and sound like. I have my opinions, but I am only a hobbyist. People with more experience will offer better advice. Just make sure you let them know your budget.
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post #46 of 56 Old 06-18-2009, 06:26 PM
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Ron that's what I meant. Anyway going out to look for pro gear is easy, if there's no budget concern, I regularly get emails or printed brochures, or (potential) customer events invites from distributors. Not that I would know how to use the gear, LOL.

The Rohde mic was recommended elsewhere, but there are two models, one called stereo and the other not labelled stereo, but still stereo, so not sure which model they meant.

This model Chevypower suggested is almost as classic ('75) as the Sennheiser reportermicrophone that has been the mainstain of radio (and tv) reporting since the sixties.

Asked my brother if any of his mp3 players had recording capability, following up on your pocket recorder suggestion, well the only one that wasn't broken, yet, didn't. But 'If you need to record something important, i've got that Marantz' suggesting I borrow that Nagra/Uher follow-on that he uses together with one of those Sennheiser reportermics at the local public radio station. Same recorder as he used in his work at the National Public Broadcaster.

Or use one of his (big) personal condenser (studio) microphones. Great for sound, but not suitable to lugg around to South America seeing a few minutes of use in what will allways remain an amateur video.

But I coudn't go and tell him it was to hear him say 'sim', now could I;-). Wouldn't want to take the risk of borrowing this type of recorder and taking it abroad, anyway.

Indeed my folks aren't made of money, nor am I so, the Canon was the perfect compromise of performance and price. Something he will undoubtedly enjoy for the years to come, as he establishes his family.

Indeed, the Velbon isn't like any fluidheads I have seen at IBC over the past 15 years, but it will see very little use in recording any babies that may arrive, and similar important occassions or just the, hopefully many, fun moments over the next few years. So 50 euro bought something that was light but fairly sturdy, unlike the thinner legged 40 euro model. Perhaps with a little more care that money could have bought a slightly better tripod, however, it is something easily upgraded if the need arrises.

Indeed a completely different class of camera stand than what this German manufacturer emailed me about earlier this week: http://www.movietech.de/german_09/neuheiten_dt_09.htm, LOL.

Budget, well as little as possible without buying unusable crap, one will simply never use again. Hence thinking of a little camera mounted shotgun mic, as that seems to be the microphone one will most likely still use in general family type point and shoot style use.
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post #47 of 56 Old 06-18-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

The professional wedding photographers are all selling their cameras and are now all buying Canon 5D2s. Their solution for long takes (eg long speeches) is to use a separate audio recorder (eg the Zoom H4N - has mikes and XLR) that records continuously.

That does indeed look like a nice little recorder for the prosumer market you are refering to. At approx. 350 euro it isn't too expensive either for enthousiast or semi-pro users.
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post #48 of 56 Old 06-18-2009, 09:54 PM
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There are two Rodes that are highly regarded in their price points:

The Rode VideoMic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...a_Mounted.html

And the Rode Stereo VideoMic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ic_Camera.html

I personally own the latter and I'm very satisfied with it.

You can find reviews on both of them online.
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post #49 of 56 Old 06-19-2009, 04:50 AM
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The Zoom H2 is a smaller less expensive option to the H4. Add a Giant Squid lav mic for low cost portable audio recording. Works nicely when the subject is more than 10 ft away from the camcorder.
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post #50 of 56 Old 06-19-2009, 09:20 PM
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Never used a Rode, but i only ever hear good things about them. I recommend using a mono shotgun as opposed to a stereo mic for dialog. Use stereo for nats.
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post #51 of 56 Old 07-07-2009, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I finally got my FH1 and 8GB Kingston class 6. I'm a little dissappointed with the time it takes to autofocus sometimes, but the clarity is unbeatable for $430. It also seems you have to manually set the white balance every time you use the camcorder or else the colour is bouncing all over the place with the Auto WB.

Also, 60fps doesn't play back on my PS3 or the computer... the video goes 1/2 speed and the audio is full speed. I think I would've stayed away from 60p anyways due to the size of the files and what I'm using it for, but it would've been nice to be able to play them back smoothly. Even the 1080p 30p videos have some audio sync issues using WMP. Nero Showtime seems to work a lot better.

Thanks for all your help. The FH1 definitely has to be the best for the buck. I opened the box and I just said to myself, "okay, now where is the camera??" It's tiny!
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post #52 of 56 Old 07-07-2009, 08:00 AM
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After reading mostly positive reviews, I went ahead and order FH1 one as well. I was planning on getting Panasonic TM300/Tm350 but couldn't justify paying 3 times more for all the extra features (better OIS, 5.1 audio etc). Video/still quality is the most important part and from what I've read, FH1 should not disappoint.

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post #53 of 56 Old 07-07-2009, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post

After reading mostly positive reviews, I went ahead and order FH1 one as well. I was planning on getting Panasonic TM300/Tm350 but couldn't justify paying 3 times more for all the extra features (better OIS, 5.1 audio etc). Video/still quality is the most important part and from what I've read, FH1 should not disappoint.

I guess that's another thing that dissappointed me about the FH1, even though it claims to shoot 8MP, i find the photos extremely poor compared to the quality my Nikon 7.2MP Coolpix takes. They just seem really grainy, but maybe I have a setting wrong. I have it at 8MP high, which is where I believe it is supposed to be.
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post #54 of 56 Old 07-07-2009, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondoguitar View Post

I guess that's another thing that dissappointed me about the FH1, even though it claims to shoot 8MP, i find the photos extremely poor compared to the quality my Nikon 7.2MP Coolpix takes. They just seem really grainy, but maybe I have a setting wrong. I have it at 8MP high, which is where I believe it is supposed to be.

Hmmmm...that's a let down but fortunately, I do not plan on using FH1 for pictures. I have my old trusty Panasonic FZ5 for that

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post #55 of 56 Old 07-07-2009, 08:19 PM
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I always like CANON.
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post #56 of 56 Old 07-07-2009, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyman6 View Post

I always like CANON.

I would've liked Canon as well if I had 3x more money to spend. FH1 was $427, the S10 was $1299US
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