Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 105 - AVS Forum
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post #3121 of 3783 Old 10-21-2010, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisterbret View Post

I haven't used the component but with the HDMI I can shut the icons off by hitting the middle button on the remote. I believe it's labeled "OK".

I want not to show while recording, not in playback mode. Are you talking about playback or recording mode?

Thank you.
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post #3122 of 3783 Old 10-21-2010, 08:52 PM
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I just tried iMovie '11 and it still doesn't recognize native *.MTS files from the TM700.
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post #3123 of 3783 Old 10-22-2010, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimev View Post

I just tried iMovie '11 and it still doesn't recognize native *.MTS files from the TM700.

I haven't tried it yet myself, but I did notice that you can export as 1080p from iMovie now. But it was grayed out so I don't know how to 'enable' it.

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post #3124 of 3783 Old 10-22-2010, 11:49 AM
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Premiere Pro CS5 with Neo Scene work very well together for 1080P60 editing. I have been getting GREAT results in editing with this combination.

With an expensive combination of hardware and software, editing the TM700's 1080P60 video is now as easy, and fluid, as editing Mini-DV standard definition files. However, it's a fairly significant caveat of a large investment in hardware and software to make it work this well, and output to 1080P60 is still challenging.

Roland.
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post #3125 of 3783 Old 10-23-2010, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohibaman View Post

I just like to use raw files, and I wasn't sure if HD writer would change any compression (or degenerate) the files, when it changes them from MTS to M2TS files, especially when using the highest quality mode 1080/60P.

Can anyone please confirm above statement?
Coz AFAIK HD writer only converts MTS to MT2S so that Windows can recognize the file and this task is done without any encoding process.
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post #3126 of 3783 Old 10-24-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janico View Post

Can anyone please confirm above statement?
Coz AFAIK HD writer only converts MTS to MT2S so that Windows can recognize the file and this task is done without any encoding process.

The MTS and M2TS files are so similar in size and the conversion so quick that there can't be any encoding difference, just a different header block.

Premiere Pro accepts either file format.
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post #3127 of 3783 Old 10-24-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpwooste View Post

Premiere Pro CS5 with Neo Scene work very well together for 1080P60 editing. I have been getting GREAT results in editing with this combination.

With an expensive combination of hardware and software, editing the TM700's 1080P60 video is now as easy, and fluid, as editing Mini-DV standard definition files. However, it's a fairly significant caveat of a large investment in hardware and software to make it work this well, and output to 1080P60 is still challenging.

Roland.

Can we have a list of current hardware configurations that is editing 1080P60 easy and fluid!
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post #3128 of 3783 Old 10-24-2010, 03:40 PM
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here's one test.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post19370319

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post #3129 of 3783 Old 10-24-2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janico View Post

Can anyone please confirm above statement?
Coz AFAIK HD writer only converts MTS to MT2S so that Windows can recognize the file and this task is done without any encoding process.

*.mts and *.m2ts are only different in extension. The file is unchanged between the cam (*.mts) and after HDwriter registers it on your computer (*.m2ts). If you drag and drop files from the cam using Windows Explorer the file extension will stay *.mts on your computer and can be played by nearly any software other than HDwriter. For some reason HDwriter will only recognize files it has copied to your computer and in doing so it changes the extension to *.m2ts.

I believe the only reason there is a distinction between the extension on the cam and those imported by HDwriter on your computer is so that it knows which files have been copied already.

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post #3130 of 3783 Old 10-25-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brnchbrkr View Post

Can we have a list of current hardware configurations that is editing 1080P60 easy and fluid!

I said it was expensive...

Intel Core i7 980X overclocked to 4.3Ghz
Gigabyte X58A-UD5 motherboard
Zalaman CNPS 10x Performa CPU Cooler (with dual fans)
6*2GB G.SKILL PC16000 memory (2000Mhz, running at 1880Mhz)
MSI GTX 470 Video card
850W Corsair single rail PSU
OS runs on RAID-0 2-way Intel X25-E SSD's
Video project runs on RAID-0 8-way X25-E SSD's (although this may be overkill)
Intel PCIe Gen2 x8 (8 lane) Server RAID conroller card, for the above 8 drive SSD array.

Premiere Pro CS5, with the GTX470 Hack enabled.
Conversion of MTS files to AVI using CineForm NeoScene.
AC3Filter used for the sound conversion by NeoScene - enables 5 channel audio.
Edit the entire project in these AVI files.

Timeline scrub is smooth and fluid, editing is quick and easy, very little frame dropping while editing.

However, beyond the extreme level of hardware, output is still a huge hassle.
I've found what appear to be the most useful 3 outputs:
  • 60P with MS AVI, using the Cineform codec - however these are 2GB/min
  • 60P with H.264 encoding, these are 333MB/min - but only playback on VP4 based video cards, e.g. GTX470
  • 30P with H.264 encoding, these are 233MB/min - and works well anywhere, but is only 30P rather than 60P.

I wish I could at least find a software (CPU rather than GPU, like Windows Media Center) player that will play 60P H.264.

Roland.
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post #3131 of 3783 Old 10-25-2010, 08:33 AM
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The GTX470 is already certified. I do wish Adobe would sanction more NVidia cards so people wouldn't have to either hack it to work or be forced to choose between only a few cards. As least for my case, if I finally decide to build a desktop over a laptop the 470 is very good already.

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post #3132 of 3783 Old 10-25-2010, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohibaman View Post

Here is a link to a MTS file joiner program that Ken Ross devised, I am not sure if this is a GUI-based program that you were referring too.
http://sites.google.com/site/mtsfilejoiner/
And is this the same as the way you catenate them? Thx in advance

Ken's program looks ok.

The Panasonics don't drop a single bit when splitting the file. However, they also don't break the file at logical boundaries (like, at a GOP boundary), they break them at the 4GB boundary. So if you drop 00001.MTS and 00002.MTS onto a timeline, there's going to be some mess there at the boundary. What I'm doing is a dumb catenation, which is exactly what you want to fix the issue. I believe that's what Ken's program does, too.

There's no need to analyze the file contents. A program like TSMuxer, or other video-aware program, is not the right answer here, unless it's specifically designed to detect this situation.
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post #3133 of 3783 Old 10-26-2010, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazydave View Post

Ken's program looks ok.

The Panasonics don't drop a single bit when splitting the file. However, they also don't break the file at logical boundaries (like, at a GOP boundary), they break them at the 4GB boundary. So if you drop 00001.MTS and 00002.MTS onto a timeline, there's going to be some mess there at the boundary. What I'm doing is a dumb catenation, which is exactly what you want to fix the issue. I believe that's what Ken's program does, too.

There's no need to analyze the file contents. A program like TSMuxer, or other video-aware program, is not the right answer here, unless it's specifically designed to detect this situation.

Greetings Dave.

I noticed when using HDWriter the playback is seamless.

Just to clarify, are you saying there will be glitches if different segments are joined together using tsMuxeR?

If so, will the dos command copy/b work?

Many thanks and best regards.
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post #3134 of 3783 Old 10-26-2010, 11:53 AM
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I am trying to sort out the best programme to preserve 60p on rendering. After reading many many suggestions on this thread I have tried the trial versions of Vegas Movie Studio 10, Premiere Elements and Edius 2.5 but cannot get any of them to output 60p AVC.

Is there any others I should trial or have I missed something?

I know this has come up many times previously, but I am still having trouble. Thanks.
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post #3135 of 3783 Old 10-26-2010, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

I am trying to sort out the best programme to preserve 60p on rendering. After reading many many suggestions on this thread I have tried the trial versions of Vegas Movie Studio 10, Premiere Elements and Edius 2.5 but cannot get any of them to output 60p AVC.

Click to see how I render 60p AVC from Vegas.
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post #3136 of 3783 Old 10-26-2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Click to see how I render 60p AVC from Vegas

Thankyou for the link.

Two questions if I may:

From the video it seems that the highest bitrate is 18Mbps. Does this cause a qualatative degredation in quality when rendering?

With 59.97 fps, does this cause a drop frame problem with 60fps clips?

Thank you
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post #3137 of 3783 Old 10-26-2010, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

From the video it seems that the highest bitrate is 18Mbps. Does this cause a qualatative degredation in quality when rendering?

AVCHD spec limits bitrate to 18 Mbit/s. Yeah, I know, I am already breaking the spec by rendering 1080p60. 20 Mbit/s works fine on my player. Vegas did not allow me rendering with bitrate higher than 20 Mbit/s into .avc file. The resulting video looks great to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

With 59.97 fps, does this cause a drop frame problem with 60fps clips?Thank you

It is 59.94. The TM700 shoots 60p at 59.94 fps. No frames are dropped.
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post #3138 of 3783 Old 10-26-2010, 05:38 PM
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With all do respect for Ungermannm who knows what he's talking about. I found another way that might interest you. You can save it as a mp4 at 60p and it plays smooth with any player. It's a pretty small file that I believe keeps almost all the quality. With one problem. the mp4 doesn't not liked to be edited in Sony Vegas. When you scrub the timeline the computer just slows to a crawl. That being said, you can use the mp4
as a final output to play on a server. You can also save the Vegas save file and render the whole project to your liking. Mp4 Settings below

Sony Vegas mp4 60p output settings

MainConcept AVC/AAC (*mp4)
Custom


Custom Frame Size
1920 1080
Frame Rate 59.940

Field Order none Progressive

Max (bps) 50,000,000
Average (bps) 25,000,000

Changing profile from baseline to main will allow you to edit field order if you need to


Still working out my work flow but this is what I've come up with.

Pull the files off with the Pana software It's saved in a folder I label by month/year
Edit the files using Sony Vegas. I render the project mpg for the dvd folks. I then do a 60i for blu-ray. I find Sony's conversion much
better and faster then the camera. Then I output a mp4 for my own personal viewing on my video server. I can delete any and all
renderings. As long as I keep my Sony save file and the orginal source video, I can render again at anytime. I should mention in a pinch you can convert the mp4 back to a mts type file with a few different programs.

I've been using the free (Splash) player to play 60p clicks smoothly. The mp4's working on any player but the orginals dog on other players. Thumbs up for Splash!
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post #3139 of 3783 Old 10-27-2010, 10:41 AM
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Has anyone used the Panasonic VW-LDC103-K DC Video Light on their TM700? I seen it but never seen anyone ever mention it before. Any word on how it performs or what video looks like with it attached? Just curious
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post #3140 of 3783 Old 10-27-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisterbret View Post

You can save it as a mp4 at 60p and it plays smooth with any player.

I am not sure that MP4 can be easily rewrapped into M2TS. Maybe it can, I haven't researched this path. My goal was playback on my BD player.
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post #3141 of 3783 Old 10-27-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

I am not sure that MP4 can be easily rewrapped into M2TS. Maybe it can, I haven't researched this path. My goal was playback on my BD player.

Using tsMuxeR I was able to change from mp4 back to M2TS
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post #3142 of 3783 Old 10-27-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisterbret View Post

Using tsMuxeR I was able to change from mp4 back to M2TS

Cool, I haven't tried it.
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post #3143 of 3783 Old 10-27-2010, 12:14 PM
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Thankyou for the suggestions.

As far as I can tell then, there is no programme that will not completely render these clips on production ie no ability to preserve original video stream in sections where there has been no modification.

I wonder if the 3rd party video editors will catch up?
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post #3144 of 3783 Old 10-28-2010, 09:36 AM
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Just recently purchased this, and was wondering if there is any way to turn the cam on and use the pc to monitor what it sees(preferably over USB as I don't have an HDMI input or component inputs). All the other cams in the past I've used have been able to do this, but this one seems to shut the cam off the second it is plugged in. Any ideas?
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post #3145 of 3783 Old 10-28-2010, 12:41 PM
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No. A capture card viewing the outputs is the only option for that.
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post #3146 of 3783 Old 10-29-2010, 01:20 AM
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Hi guys!


After being away from the camcorder forum for a while, I just spotted a good deal on the SD700 and now I am wondering - what is the status on being able to find software that will accept 50/60p without any transcoding?

E.g. the new Premier Elements 9 is out for both Mac and PC and if I remember correctly, Premier CS5 was able to accept the 700 series files(?)
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post #3147 of 3783 Old 10-29-2010, 02:53 AM
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Just about any editing software that's not made by Apple can take in the footage natively. With that said, their are a couple of ways to dump the footage into Apple without degrading the quality and the easy way is by purchasing ClipWrap which basically re-wraps the footage into something Final Cut can read.

Nevermind the fact that their are also regular HD modes or you can still shoot in 60i and have either the camcorder or HD writer convert to 60i. You would have to get the TM700 version to do it within the camcorder.

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post #3148 of 3783 Old 10-29-2010, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Just about any editing software that's not made by Apple can take in the footage natively. With that said, their are a couple of ways to dump the footage into Apple without degrading the quality and the easy way is by purchasing ClipWrap which basically re-wraps the footage into something Final Cut can read.

Nevermind the fact that their are also regular HD modes or you can still shoot in 60i and have either the camcorder or HD writer convert to 60i. You would have to get the TM700 version to do it within the camcorder.

Does this ClipWrap trick include iMovie and/or Final Cut Pro -or just final cut? I was hoping for the new iMovie 11 being able to support it directly.

I want to get the SD700 version, as the price difference I can buy 2 32GB Sandisk Class 6 cards :-)

I am not going to shoot interlaced for now, the 50p opportunity is what sold me on the 700 series :-9

Anyone have some words or comments on Adobe Premier Elements 9 ? There is a good deal on Photoshop/Elements 9 bundle.
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post #3149 of 3783 Old 10-29-2010, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

Does this ClipWrap trick include iMovie and/or Final Cut Pro -or just final cut? I was hoping for the new iMovie 11 being able to support it directly.

I want to get the SD700 version, as the price difference I can buy 2 32GB Sandisk Class 6 cards :-)

I am not going to shoot interlaced for now, the 50p opportunity is what sold me on the 700 series :-9

Anyone have some words or comments on Adobe Premier Elements 9 ? There is a good deal on Photoshop/Elements 9 bundle.

You can do 1080/50p just with iMovie. Use the free program "Rewrap2M4V" to change the .mts files (without any transcoding) to .m4v flies which can then be imported into iMovie '09 and I assume into iMovie 11 too. However, you also need to alter the iMovie prefs to 50fps otherwise the files will become 25fps when iMovie transcodes to AIC for editing. I've described the steps here: http://www.ianperegian.com

Cheers,
Ian
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post #3150 of 3783 Old 10-29-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianperegian View Post

You can do 1080/50p just with iMovie. Use the free program "Rewrap2M4V" to change the .mts files (without any transcoding) to .m4v flies which can then be imported into iMovie '09 and I assume into iMovie 11 too.

Eek, "without any transcoding" corresponds only to the task of mere reading of source files. iMovie will transcode the files into AIC anyway. On contrary, most Windows tools, like Vegas 10 that I use now, can accept MTS files directly and edit them without any transcoding.
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