Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 107 - AVS Forum
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post #3181 of 3783 Old 11-10-2010, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

For info only for anyone interested:

Dune 3.0 media-player plays native 1080P60 MTS files perfectly over network and from SD card.

I do not see anywhere in the specifications that it will play from SDXC card!?
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post #3182 of 3783 Old 11-10-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkhw77 View Post

Is there anything else can play .MTS? What is actually the good/best media player to work with TM700?

Splash Lite plays MTS files from the TM700 very smoothly on my laptop with no noticiable stutter, and it is free from there web site:
http://mirillis.com/en/products/splash.html
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post #3183 of 3783 Old 11-10-2010, 11:07 AM
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Thanks, I meant external media player- the one I can plug in to the TV.....
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post #3184 of 3783 Old 11-10-2010, 11:54 AM
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The PS3 can play the files but I think something went wrong in the latest firmware upgrade. When it's static, it seems perfectly fine but when their a lot of movement, the frame rate seams to drop in certain scenes. That's when it's hooked up to HDMI on a new 1080p TV that I got. when it was hooked up to an older TV by component, the motion is perfect in every scene. I really need to experiment more, like hooking up the component plugs to the new TV, etc.
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post #3185 of 3783 Old 11-10-2010, 12:47 PM
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Is there anything else? Are WD offerings are any good?
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post #3186 of 3783 Old 11-10-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzysiu View Post

I do not see anywhere in the specifications that it will play from SDXC card!?

Sorry for the misinformation. Correctly: SD card adapter plugged into front USB port.
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post #3187 of 3783 Old 11-11-2010, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

You got to stop spamming. This is not going to help your product.

I am only a user of Aunsoft MTS/M2TS Converter.
I use this software to convert HDC-SD700 1080P to Ipad 720P.
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post #3188 of 3783 Old 11-12-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhnj View Post

I am only a user of Aunsoft MTS/M2TS Converter.
I use this software to convert HDC-SD700 1080P to Ipad 720P.

AirVideo does the same job for a lot less $$, AND it let's you also stream videos from your Mac to your Ipad as a bonus.

Aunsoft Video Converter is too expensive for what it does (+ its conversion algorithm is flawed when decoding progressive scan) . I should know, I was suckered into buying it.
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post #3189 of 3783 Old 11-12-2010, 07:05 PM
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I am trying to export from Premiere Pro CS5 to .mov and it works, but it converts a 50MB .mts original to the final export of about 4GB!! I have tweaked the settings a lot and cannot get any reasonable file sizes. Does anyone use Premiere Pro CS5 and know the best settings to get the best quality .mov file?

Thanks in advance!
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post #3190 of 3783 Old 11-12-2010, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faithofgod View Post
I am trying to export from Premiere Pro CS5 to .mov and it works, but it converts a 50MB .mts original to the final export of about 4GB!! I have tweaked the settings a lot and cannot get any reasonable file sizes. Does anyone use Premiere Pro CS5 and know the best settings to get the best quality .mov file?

Thanks in advance!
Why are you choosing MOV format? Are you tied to MOV for any particular reason?

I use CS5, and also bought Cineform NeoScene, thus I'm doing all my editing in huge AVI file format, the three output formats that I've settled on that seem to have the best combination of playback quality, playability on various platforms, size, and 5 channel audio, and archival quality for any future transcodes are:

Microsoft AVI, using a Cineform x64 Codec v6.2.7, 59.94fps, Max Quality, 5.1 audio, at 32-bit float resolution. For 30 minutes this came out to be 57GB (huge, but I consider it my archivial quality option, for any future editing or transcoding this is my source).

My Portable (Blu-Ray like) type spec, H.264 format, 29.97 frame rate, Level 4.2, Target bit rate 35Mbps, Max 40Mbps, VBR 2Pass, Audio uses AAC 5.1 Channels, 48Khz, High Quality, 640Kbps. This comes out to ~7GB for the same 30 minute video.

My smallest high quality 60fps format: H.264 format, 59.94 frame rate, Level 5.1, Target bit rate 50Mbps, Max 80Mbps, VBR 2Pass, Audio uses AAC 5.1 Channels, 48Khz, High Quality, 640Kbps. This comes out to ~10GB for the same 30 minute video.

I haven't actually output anything to blu-ray disk yet, so I can't yet speak to that, but you didn't state your final output, so that's not clear that it's a requirement for you.

Roland.
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post #3191 of 3783 Old 11-12-2010, 09:49 PM
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Hi guys I recently bought HS-700 and I must admit I'm so happy with the quality and features of this camera. The video quality on my 42inch viera tv is simply amazing. I'm not having any issues with the "fan" as some unfortunate minority of people are having.

Can any of you please tell me what device is needed to make 2 microphone inputs to your camcorder? For example I want to hear a scanner audio AS WELL as ambient audio at the same time. My scanner only outputs on left channel. When I plug scanner into mic port, I only hear the scanner audio from the left speaker and no ambient sound.

Obviously the built-in microphones gets disabled while the scanner is connected, so is there a work around to this?

Thanks for any advice guys.
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post #3192 of 3783 Old 11-13-2010, 05:05 PM
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After hours of reading, I received my tm700 today from B&H. These are my
conclusions based on my reading of your opinions and inspecting the camera
and software. All remarks refer to max resolution and 60p.

1. Move data to a PC using USB cable provided and AE 2.1.

2. Write data to a dvd non edited.

3. Move back from DVD to solid memory (32GB card) using AE 2.1
and then playing on hdtv with HDMI out from 32 GB card in camera.

4. If good output erase in camera data, save DVD and reformat flash
memory.

Scenario 2

Edit using AE2.1 after step 1 above.

Caveats: DVD is an archive and will not play movie. It must be moved
back to an external card which is then played in the camera.

Where have I gone wrong?
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post #3193 of 3783 Old 11-14-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpwooste View Post

Why are you choosing MOV format? Are you tied to MOV for any particular reason?

I use CS5, and also bought Cineform NeoScene, thus I'm doing all my editing in huge AVI file format, the three output formats that I've settled on that seem to have the best combination of playback quality, playability on various platforms, size, and 5 channel audio, and archival quality for any future transcodes are:

Microsoft AVI, using a Cineform x64 Codec v6.2.7, 59.94fps, Max Quality, 5.1 audio, at 32-bit float resolution. For 30 minutes this came out to be 57GB (huge, but I consider it my archivial quality option, for any future editing or transcoding this is my source).

My Portable (Blu-Ray like) type spec, H.264 format, 29.97 frame rate, Level 4.2, Target bit rate 35Mbps, Max 40Mbps, VBR 2Pass, Audio uses AAC 5.1 Channels, 48Khz, High Quality, 640Kbps. This comes out to ~7GB for the same 30 minute video.

My smallest high quality 60fps format: H.264 format, 59.94 frame rate, Level 5.1, Target bit rate 50Mbps, Max 80Mbps, VBR 2Pass, Audio uses AAC 5.1 Channels, 48Khz, High Quality, 640Kbps. This comes out to ~10GB for the same 30 minute video.

I haven't actually output anything to blu-ray disk yet, so I can't yet speak to that, but you didn't state your final output, so that's not clear that it's a requirement for you.

Roland.

Hi Roland,

I do not prefer the .mov format, but a site I am uploading them to requires it be in .mov format. I am not sure how to get the file size to be reasonable when exporting from CS5.
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post #3194 of 3783 Old 11-17-2010, 09:50 PM
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I will be doing a lot of our door shooting with my TM700 and would like to get a good quality UV lens that wont have any affect in quality of my videos. I am looking at the HOYA Multi-Coated UV Filter. I will most likely be keeping it on 24/7 so that I can protect the camera from dust, dirt, etc.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...UV_0_Haze.html

Is that a good one? Also will it fit with my lens hood and not show any of the lens?

Thanks for you help and suggestions!
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post #3195 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 12:18 AM
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The PS3 is funny with these clips (I've a "PAL" 1080/50p model). All my native MTS/M2TS clips will play and stream over DLNA but:
- Some have no sound (I think the ones I edit lose sound)
- The ones with sound lose audio sync pretty quick (a seek brings in back in sync)
- The Video looks great!

Sometimes you just scratch your head with this stuff.....
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post #3196 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svrd View Post

I will be doing a lot of our door shooting with my TM700 and would like to get a good quality UV lens that wont have any affect in quality of my videos. I am looking at the HOYA Multi-Coated UV Filter. I will most likely be keeping it on 24/7 so that I can protect the camera from dust, dirt, etc.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...UV_0_Haze.html

Is that a good one? Also will it fit with my lens hood and not show any of the lens?

Thanks for you help and suggestions!

I have that filter.

Works fine.
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post #3197 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scidoc View Post

After hours of reading, I received my tm700 today from B&H. These are my
conclusions based on my reading of your opinions and inspecting the camera
and software. All remarks refer to max resolution and 60p.

1. Move data to a PC using USB cable provided and AE 2.1.

2. Write data to a dvd non edited.

3. Move back from DVD to solid memory (32GB card) using AE 2.1
and then playing on hdtv with HDMI out from 32 GB card in camera.

4. If good output erase in camera data, save DVD and reformat flash
memory.

Scenario 2

Edit using AE2.1 after step 1 above.

Caveats: DVD is an archive and will not play movie. It must be moved
back to an external card which is then played in the camera.

Where have I gone wrong?

I think the obsession with having to view ALL videos in 60p is overrated.

I edit and convert mine with Edius Neo Booster to 1920 60i and they look fantastic, even when viewed on a 120" screen.
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post #3198 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 09:06 AM
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Totally agree with Ahender!
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post #3199 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakotase View Post

Totally agree with Ahender!

I agree with Ahender too, to a certain extent only. While it's true that content filmed in native 60p then converted to 60i can still look good (because recorded at a higher frame rate) it will introduce some interlacing artifacts nonetheless. BTW, if you use an SD card with the TM700, you can convert 60p videos to 60i internally in the camcorder, by transferring them from internal memory to the SD card. And it does an excellent job of it, too!
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post #3200 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 10:27 AM
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Which is going to look better: recording in 1080p and then converting to 1080i or recording in 1080i? If all I want to do is burn AVCHD discs which will work on most Blu-ray players which way should I go?
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post #3201 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 11:12 AM
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Even if theirs a slight quality drop going from 1080 60p to 60i rather than recording straight to 1080 60i, I think it's always best to start with 1080 60p. It's not only today your viewing your footage, it'll also be viewed years from now. In a few years, I bet your average netbook wont have any issues playing back 1080 60p footage. Plus your footage wont look as ancient. Interlace is getting less popular every year.
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post #3202 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 11:41 AM
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I agree - shoot, edit, and store in 50/60p (if you can) then distribute in the format you need on a case by case basis (eg DVD, Blu etc).
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post #3203 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 02:11 PM
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1080P is the way to go IMHO. At a guess, most of us play back most of their footage locally on our own screens so if you can't play back 1080P buy a cheap $100 1080P mediaplayer to compliment your $800 camcorder!
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post #3204 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post

Q: I find the inbuilt microphone (set to 5.1) very sensitive in that it picks up my breathing. Anyone else heard this / any tips (apart from breathing more quietly)?!?!

I just refrain from breathing altogether. All my clips are very short, or end with the camera falling to the ground

I think you can turn off the AGC and adjust the sound manually, that may help.
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post #3205 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

1080P is the way to go IMHO. At a guess, most of us play back most of their footage locally on our own screens so if you can't play back 1080P buy a cheap $100 1080P mediaplayer to compliment your $800 camcorder!

Is there any $100 1080P mediaplayer which plays 1080P60?
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post #3206 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volitar Prime View Post

Which is going to look better: recording in 1080p and then converting to 1080i or recording in 1080i? If all I want to do is burn AVCHD discs which will work on most Blu-ray players which way should I go?

As most other members agree on so far, 1080p is the way to record first, and then convert down to 60i if needed.

And for a simple mathematical reason:
1080 60i mode scans two FIELDS of 540 horizontal alternating lines each, 60 times per second. Then those two FIELDS are recombined into one complete 1080 lines FRAME when played back, effectively yielding a TRUE playback speed of only 30 FRAMES per second, similar to 1080 30p.
However, if the subject has moved between to field scans, it will appear blurry and stair cased when those two different fields are de-interlaced into a frame. That's one of the possible artifact caused by interlaced scanning, not a problem in 1080 30p mode because all 1080 lines are scanned at once.

On the other hand, 1080 60p mode scans a complete 1080 lines frame, 60 times per second, so it yields a true 60 complete frames per second smooth playback. And that's why it looks so stunning. Because our brain analyzes continuous movements, the higher the number of images per second you can produce, the closer to our natural perception of movement it becomes.

For so many years technology was limited, and trickery was used to fool our brain into thinking it saw continuous movements on screens. First by 24 fps cinema, then 30fps television with all it's interlaced jittering... It's about time that we step the speed up to produce a more convincing result.

The only advantage of interlacing fields, and in fact it was the basis of the invention of this mode of scanning, is the lower bandwidth required because there is less information per second to handle, either by electronic analog signals frequencies or the amount of digital data. Thus allowing lower bit rates and extending record time. That's also the reason why progressive scan will always require a higher bandwidth, because there is more available visual information to deal with.

So to recapitulate, you always want to scale down, not up from original material. Because you can always discard superfluous information, but it's much harder to invent (or extrapolate) convincing data if it's missing in the first place. Although some upconverting players do a remarkable job of it.
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post #3207 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkhw77 View Post

Is there any $100 1080P mediaplayer which plays 1080P60?

WDTV live and MNP-101 spring to mind. You could pick up an Xtreamer cheap as well.
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post #3208 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 04:37 PM
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"1080 60i mode scans two FIELDS of 540 horizontal alternating lines each, 60 times per second. Then those two FIELDS are recombined into one complete 1080 lines FRAME when played back, effectively yielding a TRUE playback speed of only 30 FRAMES per second, similar to 1080 30p.
However, if the subject has moved between to field scans, it will appear blurry and stair cased when those two different fields are de-interlaced into a frame. That's one of the possible artifact caused by interlaced scanning, not a problem in 1080 30p mode because all 1080 lines are scanned at once."

Are you implying that 108060i video is inferior to 108030p video? One purpose of video is to show motion well, not to look at individual frames. Blurring contributes to the illusion of smooth motion - which is good. I am not arguing that 60p is worse than 60i, but I am asking if 30p is better than 60i. Are you purposely not mentioning temporal resolution?

I also have yet to see any de-interlacing artifacts on any HDTV programs I watch on my HDTV that are broadcast in 108060i, nor have I heard anyone complain about this for HDTV broadcasts (apart from bitrate starvation).

Please enlighten us.
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post #3209 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 05:55 PM
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@markr041

You wrote:"Are you implying that 108060i video is inferior to 108030p video?.....Are you purposely not mentioning temporal resolution?"

Far from me the idea of over-simplifying the complex intricacies of capturing moving pictures. My humble goal was only to try to answer questions frequently asked: is 1080 60p superior to 1080 60i and should I record in 1080 60p, and then convert that to 1080 60i or record originally in 1080 60i.

If you read the very last sentence in my last reply, you will note that I allude to the fact that present technology (when properly implemented) can yield amazingly good results in de-interlacing fields into a full frame.

In my own experience however, yes 1080 30p can be considered somewhat superior to 1080 60i because the end-result is different, not by much I'll give you that, but different nonetheless. Moreover, it requires a more complex playback decoding scheme. That's why they have invented 1080 60p to alleviate inherent weaknesses in 1080 60i.

You also wrote: "I also have yet to see any de-interlacing artifacts on any HDTV programs I watch on my HDTV that are broadcast in 108060i, nor have I heard anyone complain about this for HDTV broadcasts (apart from bitrate starvation)."

I also watch a lot of 60i HDTV on a 42" LCD screen, and cannot really complain about de-interlacing artifacts. But when I was shopping around, I saw many cheaper TVs that DID show annoying interlacing artifacts because they probably had less sophisticated (and costly) circuitry. If, and when, HDTV broadcast decoders will offer 60p, I'm convinced the difference will be as evident as footage from my TM700 shot in 60i when compared to 60p.

Maybe I'm biased but I feel that progressive scan, at any given resulting identical frame rate, will always be superior to interlaced scan. But I might be wrong.
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post #3210 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 06:37 PM
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@markr041

One more important thing...

You also wrote:"...Blurring contributes to the illusion of smooth motion - which is good."

I agree with you wholeheartedly, it is very important to recreate the naturally occurring blur caused by fast motion.

But this blurring should be created artistically by varying exposure times (either optically or electronically) to mimic the human eye's perception of light, rather than result from artifacts of a limited frame recording technology. Don't you agree ?
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