Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 108 - AVS Forum
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post #3211 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 08:18 PM
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Thanks. Helpful response.
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post #3212 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Thanks. Helpful response.
You're welcome. I appreciated your comment, and you made some interesting points. Thank you, too!
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post #3213 of 3783 Old 11-18-2010, 10:32 PM
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To add to the debate, 720p (at 50 or 60fps) may be a "better" viewing choice for many than 1080i especially if you have a small screen (say 42") and sit further back further than 3meters from it (see pic below). In such as case your can not perceive the higher resolution but you will still apreciate the higher progressive frame rate especially on fast moving subjects. I belive one of the US Cable Sports channels broadcast in 720p for this reason.

One reason we don't see interlaced issues (and judder from low 24fps frame rates in Movies) on professional films is that they are very aware of the issues and constuct scenes to to highlight these. Moves always have a nice smooth pan for example.

Anyway I endorse the comment of recoding the best you can!

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post #3214 of 3783 Old 11-19-2010, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Instig8oR View Post
Hi guys I recently bought HS-700 and I must admit I'm so happy with the quality and features of this camera. The video quality on my 42inch viera tv is simply amazing. I'm not having any issues with the "fan" as some unfortunate minority of people are having.

Can any of you please tell me what device is needed to make 2 microphone inputs to your camcorder? For example I want to hear a scanner audio AS WELL as ambient audio at the same time. My scanner only outputs on left channel. When I plug scanner into mic port, I only hear the scanner audio from the left speaker and no ambient sound.

Obviously the built-in microphones gets disabled while the scanner is connected, so is there a work around to this?

Thanks for any advice guys.
Anyone??

I'm considering buying one of those digital voice recorders to record scanner audio completely separately from the camera itself if there's no way around it, or is there any external microphone that have its own external mic port?
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post #3215 of 3783 Old 11-19-2010, 01:19 PM
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Hi. Anything you plug into the microphone input on the TM700 will disable the onboard mics. That 1/8" mini plug is stereo. The tip is the left channel, the sleeve is the right channel, and the base is ground connection.

Be aware that this input is very sensitive, meaning it's amplified many times, so that any line level (or even worst a speaker out level) output from a device such as a scanner or tape recorder will saturate the mic input and distort the sound quite a bit. (even possibly damage the audio circuitry of the camcorder if the signal fed in is excessively high!)

Unfortunately, there is no audio line level input on the TM700. So the best thing, as you suggested, would be to record the scanner on an external device, and then mix the sounds from the camera mics and the scanner recording later on in editing.

Hope this helps.
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post #3216 of 3783 Old 11-20-2010, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alainhubert View Post

Be aware that this input is very sensitive, meaning it's amplified many times,

Thanks for reply, I noticed that when I connected my scanner even when the volume level was all the way down to 0, you could still hear it. I'll get one of sony's note takers and give it a shot and see how it goes, now the only problem is the editing bit, I'd have to adjust the video/audio timeline in CS5 tediously for it to get it just right. (its for upcoming airshow)
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post #3217 of 3783 Old 11-20-2010, 07:01 AM
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Hi all,
Have any of you tried recording Concerts?
I took my TM-700 into my last two concerts, I used Manual Mode (1080/60P) and then setup the Mic for the Show, I left the 5.1 Surround on and set the Mic Record level via Menu in Manual Setup to "Set+AGC".
I found that for a pretty loud Rock n Roll Concert and a Blues Concert indoors an Audio Level of about -12 to -15dB, did the trick.
The Level indicator on the screen is really great and don't worry if you see it go to Red a bit.
Playing back the vids Looked and Sounded Great with no Distortion to the Audio at all!

I was discrete in my recording practices and did not flaunt it, not knowing if Security would bother me but let's face it,
everyone these days is recording with their phones and such...you can look around the audience and see it speckled with people holding up their little phones!
I just took it to the next level! LOL!
I was amazed at how well it Cammed out!

Concerts, Sporting Events, Races, etc..this Cam will really Excell! WOW!

I am really enjoying my new Toy!

Have a Great day All,
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post #3218 of 3783 Old 11-24-2010, 01:26 AM
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I just thought I'd post some TM700 videos that I've found.

I start off with this one because it was pretty well made and haven't gotten much attention:
http://vimeo.com/16315081

A lot of of you have seen this particular one already since I posted it here before:
http://vimeo.com/15495926

Extras:
http://vimeo.com/14510838
http://vimeo.com/11941796
http://vimeo.com/17098510
http://vimeo.com/11846013
http://vimeo.com/16800271
___
http://vimeo.com/16751405
___

What's ironic is that if these were shot with a DSLR, some of these would have been much more popular.

Since I want some of the features of the GH2 and already have a couple of lenses, the 20mm and the 14-140mm. it wont cost me much to sell my hack-able GH1 and get it. For sure it'll put a dent in me if I were to also get the TM700. Besides the fact that I always wanted one, I have an ambitious project planned in which some of the shots will be in slow motion which makes the TM700 perfect for that while the normal motion shots will be coming from the GH2. Although I can easily borrow an HVX200A which has a very good built in slow motion feature, it's not 1080p. I may still use it for something in the project just like I might be able to have access to the Canon 5D Mark II.

It's about time I post something shot with a TM700 rather than only showing other people's work. I'm obviously not going to start it until I get the GH2 but then again, I have to prepare a few things first before I start the project.
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post #3219 of 3783 Old 11-24-2010, 07:32 AM
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Searching through YouTube to see if I can find any good examples of these camcorders, I came across something that doesn't really show it off at all as far as picture quality is concerned. I haven't posted any "films" yet so I figured I might as well post this one.

It's a rather graphic horror film made by German teenage kids using the Panasonic SD707.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-kXkEQZDY

Here's the English translation:
A self Twisted horror film, with Jonathan Graf, Felix Wolf, Arman Kiss and Lucas Ajjam. Direction and camera led Leon and the script comes from Leon with the help of Lucas Ajjam. Shot with the HDC SD 707.

I used Google for the translation and I really don't have to rephrase it.
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post #3220 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 02:30 AM
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Yeah... the reason 720/60p is in the ATSC spec is because ABC, and their ESPN division, lobbied for it. They like 720/60p over 1080/60i for at least some sports.

I definitely agree. I've shot soccer in the fall, fairly regularly, over several years. Two seasons ago, I was using my pro-class Sony HDV camcorder, 1440x1080/60i. Good results... but I was concerned about extended hear wear, with 140-210 extra minutes of video a week. So last year I messed around with cheap tapeless models, including the Sanyo Xacti FH1, with its 1080/60p mode.

This year I shot in 720/60p on my newish HMC40. I could have used the TM700, but I decided the operating controls and good mic on the HMC40 trump the extra spatial resolution. If it was [American] football rather than soccer, though, I might have gone for the 1080/60p.
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post #3221 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 02:03 PM
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FYI - I've pretty much given up that Edius Neo 3 will support 1080/50 or 60p output - http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/fo...ad.php?t=19304

So still no great editing solution IMHO for this data type, so I guess I will stick to making short clips (with just cut and shut, opening title, and the odd scene transition if needed) in HD Writer for now for HTPC playback and use anyting to then burn these to a DVD/Blu-ray for distribution to Fam/Friends as needed. Sod the use of overlays, multi audio, etc etc for now.
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post #3222 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 02:15 PM
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Have you tried WMV? The top WMV setting in Edius 6 is VC1 and I think I was able to export to 1080 60p with a bit rate of 20Mbps. That along with high bit rate MPEG2 plays fine in the PS3. I'm not sure if you can get those settings in Edius Neo. I know with Premiere CS5 that I use mostly use, I can adjust H.264 to any way I want but the PS3 doesn't like those 1080 60p files at all unfortunately. I even tried 10Mbps and the playback is still not 100% smooth. I do have the newest firmware update unfortunately since I think the earlier versions were more stable. That may change if Sony releases a 1080 60p consumer camcorder next year.
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post #3223 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 02:29 PM
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Thanks Paulo, I've always kept my edited video in the same format as it was shot in (eg DV, HDV etc) and then transcode for distibution as needed and want to do the same with the Pana. I can get "close" to the original format in CS5 and and Vegas (see back a couple of pages) ...anyway....

PS3 Playback - I can stream or copy and play (off HDD) the 1080/50p clips and while they play the Audio drifts out of sync very quickly, even with the PS3 set to switch to 50hz mode (which is does)....anyone else seen these or is this a "PAL" country issue?
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post #3224 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 05:45 PM
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Hi all,
just finished my first 1.5 hours movie out of 5 hours TM700 50p native clips which were in the selection for editing out of 10 hours recording.
Shooting in sometimes cold and harsh situations in the Himalaya on long journies.
Edited with PPro CS5 on a workstation (Win 7, i7 930, 2.8 Ghz / 12 GB Ram / 10'000 Rpm System drive / 7'000 Rpm Scratch drive / 7'000 Rpm Project drive 7'000 Rpm Output drive / Quadro FX 3800).

To be sure to get a final result (which I had to deliver in time) I edited the first cuts in 7 different projects. After that I imported those 7 first projects into a new one and did the audio and finally filters (mainly gamma correction, Mercalli, Magic Bullet). All done with native 1080/50p clips. Loading the huge project takes time and switching back to Premiere out of other programms takes time. But still editing was most times smooth, few times little stuttering, not surprising...
I thougt to get into real trouble with that much load.

Rendering the final movie wich has Magic Bullet filter & vignette on the full time took about 7.5 hours for a 1080 25p output.
The result makes me smile...

(Before doing the final work I rendered the movie for tests into several different formats such as H.264 1080/50p, H.264 1080/50i, H.264 720/50p, MPEG 2 /50 Mb, AVI: All fine. Only .wmv had playback problems toward the end of the rendered movie. If I just played the movie without interruption it was all fine. But if I wanted to play it from 1:15 h onward Windows Media Player gave me an error message saying that the file was not playable. No problem jumping around up to 1:15, no problem playing the full movie, just pause and restart after 1:15 or switch to somewhere later wasn't possible.

After using the cam almost half a year, 3 months in high altitudes up to 5500 meter over sea level; cold & dusty and sometimes hot & humid climate conditions I'm fully satisfied with the decision to invest a lot of money into this cam & accessoir and necessarily also into according PC Hard- and Software.
Great, it works till the high end!
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post #3225 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post

So still no great editing solution IMHO for this data type.....

I have been using PowerDirector 9 which handles the clips fine and can render H.264 1080p60 @ 24Mbps. It even smart renders some clips if the original bitrate is below 24Mbps (as is often the case).
Not a perfect programme but does the job well enough.
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post #3226 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

I have been using PowerDirector 9 which handles the clips fine and can render H.264 1080p60 @ 24Mbps. It even smart renders some clips if the original bitrate is below 24Mbps (as is often the case).
Not a perfect programme but does the job well enough.

Thanks - downloading the trial now! If it does smart render it is exacly what I want (and not bit $ like some of the others I've trialed).
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post #3227 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

I have been using PowerDirector 9 which handles the clips fine and can render H.264 1080p60 @ 24Mbps. It even smart renders some clips if the original bitrate is below 24Mbps (as is often the case).
Not a perfect programme but does the job well enough.

Not Bad! You can create a profile that is pretty close, and it WILL smart render (see pic) but there are some issues with this that I've posted over at the Cyberlink forum to see if we get some answers --> http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/pos...t/0/14176.page

Thanks
Nathan
LL
LL
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post #3228 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 11:06 PM
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Video Redo also smarts renders 1080 60p files and the playback preview screen works surprisingly well on my 2 year old laptop.

The average bit rate for the TM700 is around 25Mbps and it's common to find clips that are averaging 27Mbps. For sure files that high may be peeking over 30Mbps. I would assume that if the bit rate limit is 24Mbps, it would be very hard to find clips that peek at 24Mbps. Does this mean the maximum bit rate for PowerDirector is over 24Mbps?
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post #3229 of 3783 Old 11-25-2010, 11:31 PM
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Hi Paulo - Good to see Video Redo offering x264 support now but it really does not give us much more than HD Writer (except if you prefer the IF). I have also checked some of my footage which is 1080/50p for me and according to MediaInfo for the Video Stream:
- "Maximum bit rate" is 26.0Mbps and
- "Bit rate" varies between a low of 23.8 and a high of 25.2 on the clips I have looked at

When creating the custom profile in PD9 you can set the:
- Average Bit rate at a Max of 22,500 Kbps
- Maximum Bit rate of a Max of 24,000 Kbps

As I only have the trial at this stage I'm note sure what (if any) limits will kick in and how accurate they are as my 23.8Mbps would actually be 24,371 Kbps.....and I was clearly Smart Rendering on some of my files.

Thanks
Nathan
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post #3230 of 3783 Old 11-26-2010, 12:33 PM
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PD9 is in no way a bug free application but seems reasonable value if you don't want to go the CS5 Pro route.

The smart render does work on many clips BUT it is useless if you edit the beginning of the clip at all ie trim or even add transition. That said, the 1080p60 output seems indistinguishable from the original when played on my 46" 1080p screen.

I think it should be added to the list of potential NLEs useful for the TM700.
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post #3231 of 3783 Old 11-26-2010, 01:35 PM
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Thanks - I'd agree that at this stage PD9 looks like a well priced consumer NLE for TM700 users who need a more than HD Writer - I'll continue the posts over at the cyberlink forum on the bugs etc
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post #3232 of 3783 Old 11-26-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc3 View Post

I have been using PowerDirector 9 which handles the clips fine and can render H.264 1080p60 @ 24Mbps. It even smart renders some clips if the original bitrate is below 24Mbps (as is often the case).
Not a perfect programme but does the job well enough.

Cross post with http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/pos.../15/14176.page

Good News! You can "manually" edit the profile and push up the Bit Rate - I've set mine as an average of 25Mbps and a Max of 28Mbs - may need some fine tuning and playing but apart from the SVRT bug it will now Smart Render my higher bitrate files!

So the process is you:
1) Create the Custom Profile in PD9 as usual
2) Then you need to Edit it in Notepad --> C:\\Users\\[YourUserName]\\AppData\\Roaming\\CyberLink\\PowerDirector\\9.0\\Profile.i ni.

Here is an example of what my looks like (so far without any great tweaking)
Code:
&
AVCHD
Custom Profile -1

Custom Profile -1
 
11124
11125
2
13
8
8
3
0
10183
25000000
11250000
28000000
0
1920
1080
50.000000
65380
IBBPBBPBBPBBP
0
1
0
6
0
0
2
0
1
1
128
2
16
384000
6
1
1
0
0
&&
That said - it seems to have changed some header info - see pics
LL
LL
LL
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post #3233 of 3783 Old 11-26-2010, 06:50 PM
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Sony Vegas Pro 9 and 10, with custom project and render settings can edit and render 1080 60p MP4, WMV videos. Also CS5 After Effects and Premiere can do this too. I read some Panasonic BR players can play BR discs at 1080 60p. Oonce you get used to watching 1080 60p video, It's hard to watch regular 1080i or 30p as I can see the frames changing. I have a Sony HVR-A1 and an Intensity Shuttle that I can't see me using anymore, since the Tm700 video quality totally smokes it. Chromakeying the 60p is unbelievable too! No more interlaced video for me. I could easily buy two Tm700s for what I could sell my HVR-A1 for. This little Tm700 is absolutly fantastic!!
Danny Hays, Universal Studios FL.
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post #3234 of 3783 Old 11-26-2010, 10:24 PM
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FYI - PD9 (with bonus pack stuff) can be had for $89.95 AUD from http://downloads.pcauthority.com.au/...ctor_9_ultra64
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post #3235 of 3783 Old 11-29-2010, 03:09 PM
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Hi all,
Have any of you noticed that when shooting 1080/60P video to the 32GB Internal Memory and you quickly Pan left or right, a notice will come up on the LCD display stating that you panned too quickly.
I do not see it in the Final Product (Video) just on the display while shooting.

Well, I purchased a Lexar "Professional 133X" SDHC "Class 10" 32GB Card for Thanksgiving. ($109.00)
First thing that I noticed is that when I am shooting Video to the Lexar SDHC Card, I can Pan and Scan as fast as I want and I do not see that notice pop up on the Display telling me that I was panning to quickly.
I would surmise that the Camcorder can write quicker to the Lexar Class 10 card than it can to the Internal 32GB Memory!

You would think that Panasonic would install fast enough Memory into the camcorder that a Class 10 card would not show up the Pan Memory!
Not a big deal, stable video (Tri-Pod) I'll shoot to the Internal memory, Fast moving/Panning and Scanning Video will go to the Lexar Card!

Bud B
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post #3236 of 3783 Old 11-29-2010, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud B View Post

Hi all,
Have any of you noticed that when shooting 1080/60P video to the 32GB Internal Memory and you quickly Pan left or right, a notice will come up on the LCD display stating that you panned too quickly.
I do not see it in the Final Product (Video) just on the display while shooting.

Well, I purchased a Lexar "Professional 133X" SDHC "Class 10" 32GB Card for Thanksgiving. ($109.00)
First thing that I noticed is that when I am shooting Video to the Lexar SDHC Card, I can Pan and Scan as fast as I want and I do not see that notice pop up on the Display telling me that I was panning to quickly.
I would surmise that the Camcorder can write quicker to the Lexar Class 10 card than it can to the Internal 32GB Memory!

You would think that Panasonic would install fast enough Memory into the camcorder that a Class 10 card would not show up the Pan Memory!
Not a big deal, stable video (Tri-Pod) I'll shoot to the Internal memory, Fast moving/Panning and Scanning Video will go to the Lexar Card!

Bud B


Hello, Bud. I own a TM700 too.
The message you are seeing is a warning (that you can disable in the Record Setup menu under Shooting Guide) that is telling you that you are panning too fast for rolling shutter type sensors like the ones in this camcorder, and that will result in a skew effect (vertical details like telephone poles will be slanting instead of straight up).

Depending on image content, sometimes this message might not always appear. The message will also not appear in standby mode (paused recording). See page 72 in your Operating Instructions manual.

I own a TM700 and it has an internal memory buffer (RAM) that it uses before writing to internal, or SD card flash memory.
It has nothing to do with memory speed, as the camcorder's buffer/flash memory transfer speed is fast enough for the highest bit rate encoding possible (averaged 28Mbps in 1080 @60p). The benefits of a very high speed SD card will be for video transfers (and also re-encoding) from internal memory to SD card, mainly.
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post #3237 of 3783 Old 11-29-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud B View Post
Hi all,
Have any of you noticed that when shooting 1080/60P video to the 32GB Internal Memory and you quickly Pan left or right, a notice will come up on the LCD display stating that you panned too quickly.
I do not see it in the Final Product (Video) just on the display while shooting.

Well, I purchased a Lexar "Professional 133X" SDHC "Class 10" 32GB Card for Thanksgiving. ($109.00)
First thing that I noticed is that when I am shooting Video to the Lexar SDHC Card, I can Pan and Scan as fast as I want and I do not see that notice pop up on the Display telling me that I was panning to quickly.
I would surmise that the Camcorder can write quicker to the Lexar Class 10 card than it can to the Internal 32GB Memory!

You would think that Panasonic would install fast enough Memory into the camcorder that a Class 10 card would not show up the Pan Memory!
Not a big deal, stable video (Tri-Pod) I'll shoot to the Internal memory, Fast moving/Panning and Scanning Video will go to the Lexar Card!

Bud B
Interesting observation, Bud.

Do you have sustain/burst read and write speed of this class 10 device?
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post #3238 of 3783 Old 11-29-2010, 09:57 PM
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Hi Alainhubert,
I checked out page 72 in the Manual about the "Shooting Guide," that is exactly what it is.
What is crazy though, is that when shooting Video (1080/60P) to the SDHC the "Camera Panning is Too Fast" does not show up.
I am confused as to why not.

Bud B
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post #3239 of 3783 Old 11-29-2010, 10:03 PM
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Hi Mariner888,
You asked,
Quote:


Do you have sustain/burst read and write speed of this class 10 device?

I do not have that information but I did find very favorable reviews of the card on the web, also compared to much more expensive cards.
You could search, Lexar 32GB Professional 133X-Class 10.

Later,
Bud B
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post #3240 of 3783 Old 11-29-2010, 11:38 PM
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Looks like you've picked up a good bargain.
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