Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

There has been a new firmware released?????

No, I think he's just conjecturing.
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post #722 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 06:35 AM
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Hello,

Would you compare the stabilisation quaility and the sharpness/resoultion of these 2 clips, please ?

tm700: vimeo - search for: Panasonic HDC TM700 raw file
cx550: youtube - search for: Eden driving her car

Now look at this tm700 vs cx550 low light video comparsion (thanks to djandrea):

youtube - search for: sony cx550 vs panasonic tm700 very low light

Panasonic has fan noise, Sony has blue dot problem
Panasonic resolution and sharpness is better than Sony
Sony has better stabilisation
Sony has better low light video

Oh, when can we have only 1 (one) production with all the good features, please ???

- no fan noise
- no blue dot problem
- very good 1080/60p video
- almost glidecam quaility stabilisation
- good low light quality

Because at the moment Panasonic or Sony can't make a good, error free camera.

Anyone remember the pana gs-400 and the sony hc 90 ? It was like 5 year ago.
Do you remember the results of the comparing tests ?

Panasonic resolution and sharpness is better than Sony
Sony has better stabilisation
Sony has better low light video

5 years passed, Panasonic still can't beat Sony stabilisation and low light video, Sony still can't beat Panasonic picture quality.

How long should we wait until we can a good camcorder without compromise ?
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post #723 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I believe the included software can do the file conversion...I seem to have read someone using it that way. You don't have to convert any files for viewing if you're using the player in the bundled software. It does a very nice job even with my relatively weak PC.

Unfortunately the bundled Panasonic software drops the framerate to 20fps on my PC which isn't acceptable. (strangely, it's either 60fps, 20fps, or 10fps using the Panasonic software, nothing inbetween).

There's got to be a better way to view the files without hassle. I just found out today that you can't even playback 1080P files on the TV without the optional HDMI cable... is this true?
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post #724 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeAddct View Post

I just found out today that you can't even playback 1080P files on the TV without the optional HDMI cable... is this true?

This is true. Plus you need a mini-HDMI converter.
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post #725 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Register for free on Vimeo and download the TM700 1080p60 native files.
Here are a few:
http://vimeo.com/10663338
http://vimeo.com/10738173
http://vimeo.com/10737780
http://vimeo.com/10644225
http://vimeo.com/10753892

I did not download your videos on my PC, but I can play with no problem these files on my laptop (Asus G73J. It is a i7, ATI hd5870 1gb video card ram, 8gb memory, 1.60 GHZ ) if I play them in the vimeo embedded video player.

Do u guys know if I can download the files off on my Hard disk so that I could try to play them directly on my laptop ?
Do u think that there is a difference if I play the videos from my PC vs playing them online , in terms of slowing down the laptop ?

Thank you
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post #726 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 09:40 AM
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Time Lapse Quality

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Originally Posted by djandrea View Post

2 exaggerated .....
the time lapse using a bitrate of 14mbps for a 50i is already high enough and eventually you move meter that are not are still

for me it is already as much as bitrate

are the optimal time lapse

When I tried a time-lapse sequence I found that the camera recorded at a bit-rate of 7.3 mbs regardless of the recording mode [except when in 108060p mode when a message appeared saying that time-lapse will not operate in that mode].

I will try and check systematically this week-end to make sure that I have not make an error.
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post #727 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 09:56 AM
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I just installed the 5.5 update to Edius Professional on my I7 HP computer. The 1080p clips play like butter! Not the slightest hesitation and the buffer doesn't drop at all as you play it, so the computer is actually loafing with the 1080p clips.

I've always loved Edius for my editing since they're usually ahead of the curve for things like this.

Now although Edius Professional is not a cheap program, it's my understanding that Edius Neo will do a similar job since it has the same upgrade relative to AVCHD.

Guys, there is no longer any excuse 'but I can't edit my 1080p'. It's here now! You can now have the best PQ out there AND have the tools to edit.
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post #728 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hextra View Post

5 years passed, Panasonic still can't beat Sony stabilisation and low light video, Sony still can't beat Panasonic picture quality.

I have to tell you, the stabilization disparity (if any) between my Sony XR500 and Panasonic TMV700 is so slight, I honestly couldn't tell you which is better. If one is better than the other, it's slight and nothing to get nuts about. I've done walking tests and there's very little difference.

Let's put it this way, the difference in PQ between these two cameras is FAR greater than the difference between OIS.

Now, I will acknowledge that in crazy low light, my Sony is more noise-free than my Panasonic. But at that point the colors on the Sony are terrible, the image is dark and the detail is just not there.

If you want good video in the kind of lighting where the Sony does beat the Panasonic, you should really be using a light. Otherwise neither camera will give you quality results. You must understand that even professional $75,000 HD cameras require lots of light. That's the nature of HD. That's video 101.
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post #729 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Sushinut, actually the DSLR (GH1) were assigned to my wife. She always has the still shot responsibility and she was happy with the stock GH1 lens which has a pretty nice zoom ratio. She couldn't understand why I didn't take the Sony XR500, but I just knew I'd be disappointed with a number of scenes, so for me it was worth lugging that behemoth around. I wasn't disappointed with the results, but I actually would have been happier had the TMV700 been around back then!

I've taken a couple of pix with the camera in video mode (haven't even tried the still mode yet) and on my Pioneer Kuro 60", it was very sharp. But if I zoomed in at all, the picture would deteriorate. But after reading the CCI review, I was surprised that the non-zoomed pix was as sharp as it was. I set the stills to a 16:9 aspect ratio since I enjoy watching pix on the plasma. I'm not sure how these shots would print out, but one day I'll give that a try...just not a priority for me.

Have you printed any out and if so, what size will retain a nice degree of sharpness?

I could tell the difference in sharpness just on my laptop's 15" LCD. A bigger difference is the color accuracy due to the AWB of the TM700. I *could* manually mess with the white balance on the tm700 to take a picture, but I might as well just get the digital camera out and point and shoot instead.

on the Canon SD780IS


on the TM700, pic in video mode (color is the same in either mode)
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post #730 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:16 AM
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There are some features that are interesting, like the timelapse, but that seem to be hobbled (low bit-rate recording.) I would like a feature like timelapse, but it becomes far less useful at low bit-rate.

It would be interesting to know more about the features of the TM700. Is there a pdf manual available online? I wasn't able to find one at the Panasonic site. I typically download and read through a pdf manual before I buy any piece of expensive electronic equipment.
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post #731 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeAddct View Post

Unfortunately the bundled Panasonic software drops the framerate to 20fps on my PC which isn't acceptable. (strangely, it's either 60fps, 20fps, or 10fps using the Panasonic software, nothing inbetween).

There's got to be a better way to view the files without hassle. I just found out today that you can't even playback 1080P files on the TV without the optional HDMI cable... is this true?

As I mentioned above, my dual core does not do well with 1080p clips and it's probably not reasonable to expect it to. I was hoping, but I was not getting smooth playback on WMV. I do get reasonable playback on the bundled software. Yes, you won't get 30fps, but it still looks quite good. I just don't place a ton of value watching 1080p clips on a small computer monitor. There's just so much detail, it cries out for a large screen HDTV. If all I was doing was using my computer for playback, I would never have bought this or any HD camcorder...but that's me.

For editing, as I've discovered this morning, there's a superb editing solution that plays full frame rate 1080p like butter. BUT, you will need an I7 to do it.
My dual core just couldn't handle the same upgrade and do it smoothly.

This is the nature of video as it gets more data intensive, it forces us to upgrade our computing equipment if we want the best.
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post #732 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushinut View Post

I could tell the difference in sharpness just on my laptop's 15" LCD. A bigger difference is the color accuracy due to the AWB of the TM700. I *could* manually mess with the white balance on the tm700 to take a picture, but I might as well just get the digital camera out and point and shoot instead.

on the Canon SD780IS


on the TM700, pic in video mode (color is the same in either mode)

Sushi, to my eyes (you were there though) the Canon looks too warm and the Panny too cool. Looking at the cap on the bottle, I doubt the cap was yellow as it is on the Canon, but it probably wasn't that cool on the Panny. Either one could probably have given better results with MWB.
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post #733 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

There are some features that are interesting, like the timelapse, but that seem to be hobbled (low bit-rate recording.) I would like a feature like timelapse, but it becomes far less useful at low bit-rate.

It would be interesting to know more about the features of the TM700. Is there a pdf manual available online? I wasn't able to find one at the Panasonic site. I typically download and read through a pdf manual before I buy any piece of expensive electronic equipment.

I haven't used the timelapse, so I'll reserve judgement. But I know what you mean about hobbled features. I was excited about the slow motion on my Sony until I saw how utterly down-rezzed it was. As a result, I never used it once. Some of these features are just a bit better than gimmicks. But I'll take a look at the time lapse and see how it is.
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post #734 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I have to tell you, the stabilization disparity (if any) between my Sony XR500 and Panasonic TMV700 is so slight, I honestly couldn't tell you which is better. If one is better than the other, it's slight and nothing to get nuts about. I've done walking tests and there's very little difference.
....

Note that the XR500 does not have the same quality EIS as in the CX500 and XR/CX550 series cams. It is missing the 3-Way Shake Canceling algorithms introduced in the CX500/520 cams in 2009 and apparently some additional "EIS while walking" stabilization changes made in the 550 series. So it's two notches behind the latest Sony camcorders in stabilization. If the TMV700 looks about the same as the XR500, then the 550 series should perform better than the TMV700 in this area, just as would be the case comparing the XR500 vs a CX550.
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post #735 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 11:05 AM
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Hi!

I downloaded like six native 1080P 50P/60P clips from Vimeo at work today and brought them home on a usbstick. I plugged in the stick in my PS3-Slim 250GB with the latest Playstation firmware 3.21 and it played like a charm.

I have used and still using a Sony TRV-950 camcorder since 2002 and have never owned a HD camcorder. I will buy TM700 as soon it will arrive here in Sweden. This is my first time watching HD-material from a HD camcorder.

After watching all clips on my PS3 connected to a 42" Panasonic plasma (X10, not Full HD, only HD-ready) my jaw dropped I have never ever seen anything like this. I couldnt belive my eyes. I had no idea that any camcorder actually could capture such insane picture qualilty! How could any camera produce better PQ then this?? Is it even possible that this can look even better on a full hd plasma? How is that even possible i ask myself It was not only the PQ but the coulors were simply amazing.

Cant wait to get my hands on TM700 and since i have no rush to edit my movies and 1080P 50P material runs so smooth on my PS3 i will only record in 1080P 50P.
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post #736 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Sushi, to my eyes (you were there though) the Canon looks too warm and the Panny too cool. Looking at the cap on the bottle, I doubt the cap was yellow as it is on the Canon, but it probably wasn't that cool on the Panny. Either one could probably have given better results with MWB.

The Canon had the more accurate picture. It was pretty warm/yellow from the lighting.
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post #737 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

There are some features that are interesting, like the timelapse, but that seem to be hobbled (low bit-rate recording.) I would like a feature like timelapse, but it becomes far less useful at low bit-rate.

It would be interesting to know more about the features of the TM700. Is there a pdf manual available online? I wasn't able to find one at the Panasonic site. I typically download and read through a pdf manual before I buy any piece of expensive electronic equipment.

Here ya go Dave, it's on the site:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER...CHS700-MUL.PDF
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post #738 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:07 PM
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again with low bitrate

and a time lapse stop to 50i

and 14 Mbps bitrate for a video camera STOPPED

enough!
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post #739 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeAddct View Post

Unfortunately the bundled Panasonic software drops the framerate to 20fps on my PC which isn't acceptable. (strangely, it's either 60fps, 20fps, or 10fps using the Panasonic software, nothing inbetween).

There's got to be a better way to view the files without hassle. I just found out today that you can't even playback 1080P files on the TV without the optional HDMI cable... is this true?

I don't beleive that's true. I can play the 60p videos using AV-multi (component input to TV). But, the catch might be the tm700 automatically downgrades it to 60i and plays it. If you use HDMI, it does definitely play the native 60p.
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post #740 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rico90 View Post

Hi!

I downloaded like six native 1080P 50P/60P clips from Vimeo at work today and brought them home on a usbstick. I plugged in the stick in my PS3-Slim 250GB with the latest Playstation firmware 3.21 and it played like a charm.

Did you by any chance play those clips on PS3 with 3.15 firmware?
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post #741 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:21 PM
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No i didnt. I hadnt started my PS3 for like 1 month and it suggested firmware update as soon as i had started it. I did that before i watch the movies. It doesnt work with older firmwares?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipak_b View Post

Did you by any chance play those clips on PS3 with 3.15 firmware?

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post #742 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rico90 View Post

No i didnt. I hadnt started my PS3 for like 1 month and it suggested firmware update as soon as i had started it. I did that before i watch the movies. It doesnt work with older firmwares?

It's jittery like cnet/CCI reviews said. Both audio and video stutters while playing. Its starts out fine from beginning or pause. When I convert (downgrade) them to AVCHD(30p), it plays fine. I'm stuck between loosing "OtherOS" and smooth 60p playing.
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post #743 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djandrea View Post

again with low bitrate

and a time lapse stop to 50i

and 14 Mbps bitrate for a video camera STOPPED

enough!

That's my thought too on this djandrea. I'm not sure there's even a need for a high bitrate for time lapse video. I'll see if I can give it a shot this weekend.
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post #744 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:37 PM
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I still have 3.15 on my PS3 and it works for me.

For anyone else who tried playing back 1080 50p/60p clips on a PS3, please tell your results in this poll.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1241535
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post #745 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dipak_b View Post

I don't beleive that's true. I can play the 60p videos using AV-multi (component input to TV). But, the catch might be the tm700 automatically downgrades it to 60i and plays it. If you use HDMI, it does definitely play the native 60p.

HDMI is always the preferred connection methodology for any equipment today. All good displays over the last couple of years come with HDMI.

With that said, I'd be surprised if component connections are capable of carrying 1080 60p.
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post #746 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rico90 View Post

Hi!

I downloaded like six native 1080P 50P/60P clips from Vimeo at work today and brought them home on a usbstick. I plugged in the stick in my PS3-Slim 250GB with the latest Playstation firmware 3.21 and it played like a charm.

I have used and still using a Sony TRV-950 camcorder since 2002 and have never owned a HD camcorder. I will buy TM700 as soon it will arrive here in Sweden. This is my first time watching HD-material from a HD camcorder.

After watching all clips on my PS3 connected to a 42" Panasonic plasma (X10, not Full HD, only HD-ready) my jaw dropped I have never ever seen anything like this. I couldnt belive my eyes. I had no idea that any camcorder actually could capture such insane picture qualilty! How could any camera produce better PQ then this?? Is it even possible that this can look even better on a full hd plasma? How is that even possible i ask myself It was not only the PQ but the coulors were simply amazing.

Cant wait to get my hands on TM700 and since i have no rush to edit my movies and 1080P 50P material runs so smooth on my PS3 i will only record in 1080P 50P.

As hard as it is to believe, yes, those clips will look even better on a full 1080p HDTV...much better!

If you need to do 1080p editing, it's available today from Grass Valley's Edius in a consumer version and a professional version.
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post #747 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

I still have 3.15 on my PS3 and it works for me.

For anyone else who tried playing back 1080 50p/60p clips on a PS3, please tell your results in this poll.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1241535

Please look for videos which are constantly playing at avg of 28Mbps video and 384Kbps or above AC3 audio (Dolby). I'll upload one such clip tonight on vimeo.
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post #748 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 01:52 PM
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Is that a typo ? I only see 240GB with the HDC-HS700K at all other websites.
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-...0842754&sr=1-1
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post #749 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 02:27 PM
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That model should be 240gig, not 120.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...702#tabsection
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post #750 of 3783 Old 04-09-2010, 02:37 PM
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I seem to remember this being discussed at some point in these 26 pages of this thread so far, but has anyone had success playing the 60p files from an SDHC card in the media slot of a blu-ray player?
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