Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:22 PM
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I've seen that video when he first posted it and either camcorder can be adjusted to look better than the other. Just keeping it on factory settings is never the best idea and at least a couple of users who has the TM300 has commented that their videos never looked that bad. Their are even people commenting that the Sony examples that he has doesn't look that bad either. Still, the new camcorders of this year are much more different than those.

I think we should agree that it's too soon to judge the stabilizer and low-light capabilities until we see a lot of testing but in the bright side their are big differences between all the camcorders which can make your choices much easier.

I've said this before but if I was really looking for a camcorder, I'd wait until the successor of the HMC40 comes out since I don't consider any of those 3 camcorders perfect.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:43 PM
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HMC40 is certainly not a bad tip, but a little bit over my budget. Besides a new camcorder I need to buy a new i-7 computer to manage the AVCHD footage, so the pocket is gonna be pretty empty...

Does anybody see any logic behind the fact, the Pany can only shoot at 60/50p but not at 24p?
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:52 PM
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Is it already out?

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702


It says usually ships 3-5 days wow i guess its available
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:59 PM
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It's been out in Japan. That would be shocking if the TM700 gets released in the US earlier than expected.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:03 PM
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Paulo on the phone with them now trying to get this figured out...The answer is YES "I have seen the product and it did come in early then expected" It is available to order...

Paulo what is your take on warranties they are pricey, but do you think they are worth it? Now that I know this is out, I may just buy it now without awaiting a review because I really am digging the manual controls along with the 60p.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt View Post

Just passing on a little more info.
As I mentioned a few posts ago, I placed an order for a TM700 with Panasonic. So, I called an asked them when it would ship and was told April 5. I'm not holding my breath, but that's what I was told.

ddt you see my above post...they are available to ship in 3-5 days according to their website. so you should be getting your sometime next week i presume.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:29 PM
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I did, and gave them a call to confirm, and had to leave a message. So, I'm waiting for a call back.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:41 PM
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ddt looks good lets us know how it is and first impressions if you get any time to work with it soon =)

Also, ddt did you get a warranty thingy? what were the prices for those? i am thinking about not getting one
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:39 PM
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All the Youtube videos may be up to 1080p, but Youtube decreases quality and changes frame rate to 29.97 fps. Vimeo also doesn't have 60 fps videos unless you can download the original video.

Here are some videos straight off the TM700 at the original 1080/60p by Mrpenpengusa. You can compare it with his Youtube versions. Nero ShowTime plays them well:

Cat on Ginza St sign, 4th district:
http://firestorage.jp/download/b802c...4192c5e12b4b98

Suijou (on water) Bus (zooming on building under construction):
http://firestorage.jp/download/3e003...b9395f3071e23c

Suijou Bus (closeup of splashing water):
http://firestorage.jp/download/da961...926d1643f236c8

Suijou Bus (watching landscape):
http://firestorage.jp/download/3033d...88b81f2e1f68b6

Suijou Bus (filming from back of bus):
http://firestorage.jp/download/5a25f...4d24e3cad616f2

Zenkouji Temple:
http://firestorage.jp/download/ad80c...0ef5aa981f93ca

(Note: Firestorage files might expire)
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:38 AM
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I have downloaded every single one of these clips and they all playback flawlessly on the PS3. Not only is the average bit rate higher than the files from Sanyo's 1080 60p camcorders, but they are easier to playback. Both Panasonic and Sanyo must have perfected the technology. I've tried it with a clip from another site a while back and I thought I was just lucky. This is huge!

Nero will basically play almost anything including CineForm files from NeoScene so it's not surprising that they play these files perfectly fine if you have a decent computer.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:38 AM
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Here is an evening video 1080/60p by Mrpenpengusa. This is using standard 60p recording, not low night scene mode or color night view.

In car, evening: http://firestorage.jp/download/f401e...226ce5cdcdfb16
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:21 AM
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files are slowly downloading.

Looking forward to trying them on the popcorn a-110 player to see what happens.

However, the sample files from videoaktiv.de/Testvideos/Panasonic/Testvideo-50p-Panasonic-HDC-TM-700-P.html link at 50p were jerky, though not sure if them files had been tampered with.

Interesting that you say they played perfect on the ps3, considering that cnet review said they were really bad on the ps3.

I thought that files produced in 50/60p werent meant to be in m2ts format and its own format, or mp4 or something due to being outside the avchd specs?
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonk22 View Post

All the Youtube videos may be up to 1080p, but Youtube decreases quality and changes frame rate to 29.97 fps. Vimeo also doesn't have 60 fps videos unless you can download the original video.

Here are some videos straight off the TM700 at the original 1080/60p by Mrpenpengusa. You can compare it with his Youtube versions. Nero ShowTime plays them well:

Cat on Ginza St sign, 4th district:
http://firestorage.jp/download/b802c...4192c5e12b4b98

Suijou (on water) Bus (zooming on building under construction):
http://firestorage.jp/download/3e003...b9395f3071e23c

Suijou Bus (closeup of splashing water):
http://firestorage.jp/download/da961...926d1643f236c8

Suijou Bus (watching landscape):
http://firestorage.jp/download/3033d...88b81f2e1f68b6

Suijou Bus (filming from back of bus):
http://firestorage.jp/download/5a25f...4d24e3cad616f2

Zenkouji Temple:
http://firestorage.jp/download/ad80c...0ef5aa981f93ca

(Note: Firestorage files might expire)

Greetings cocomonk22. Thanks for posting the clips.

Quick question on the native format: are these 60p .m2ts files stoed in AVCHD folder structure?

Thanks and best regards.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:27 AM
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downloading and getting ready to pop them into my PS3 and playback on my 50 Panny Plasma...Ill share my results
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:57 AM
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I tried the Sanyo dog videos and the Videoaktiv TM700 50p clip (with the .MTS file extension changed to .TS) on my Samsung HDTV's build-in media player and the upper 2/3rds portion of the display was messed up. However, from what I could see in the lower 1/3rd, the hardware should be capable of handling the framerate: the video was smooth. I'd really like to be able to just plug a USB hard drive or flash drive into the TV for viewing.

I've been trying to get some resolution on Cnet's Samsung forum but the Samsung tech guy has been mostly unavailable this week. I plan to keep hounding him, since the specs in the TV manual don't say anything about framerate, only resolution and codec; at least the Sanyo videos are compliant and I was able to make the Videoaktiv TM700 50i clip work perfectly with the .MTS file extension changed to .TS.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:49 PM
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This camera is excellent from those clips, but i had a minor issue with playback on my PS3. The video stuttered at times but if i pause then play, it then became smooth.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:21 PM
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tested in my Popcorn A-110 player, the picture quality is amazing, however the video, tho not skipping as such has a slight hesitation about it.

Unfortunately the sound on each file cuts out after about 10 seconds. Not sure why that is, supposedly ac3 audio in the file I believe, so presume its maybe because the popcorn is struggling to cope with the video so decides to drop the audio to keep up.

I dont have any HD camcorder yet, only an old DV one, but can try getting a few apps in advance before getting the camcorder.

Anyone know what progs best to try to convert the file to 30p? I'd like to give the file a quick conversion to see how well they then play with the popcorn player
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:25 AM
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oooooooh....just had an email from Elitegadgets where I preordered my SD700. Says its been dispatched and should be here within a couple of days.

now thats a surprise, considering its UK here who are usually the last to get anything...considering some people heard april 5th elsewhere
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:44 AM
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Here's a couple of native clips on Vimeo for you to download.
http://vimeo.com/user3409665
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:02 AM
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I downloaded two of the clips whose links are above - a 160 MB and a thirty-something MB.

My wife and I have two HTPCs which are each capable of playing bd and hd dvd movies flawlessly. (We also have the "Planet Earth" series, which is in 1080x1920 @ 60 fps, which also plays back perfectly.)

Our display device is a JVC RS1 that projects onto a 120" diagonal high power screeen. The RS1 refresh rate can be set to various frequencies, including 24 hz and 60 hz. Our eyes are about 8 feet from the center point of the screen, so please just believe me when I say that we can see any flaws whatsoever in playback.

Anyway, regardless of the measures that I have taken, I cannot get those clips to play back as smoothly as any of our 24 fps or 60 fps material in either PDVD (from an iso) or MPC-HC (as the original m2ts) using ReClock as the audio renderer in both players. As some above have mentioned, there are small, bothersome hesitations that make watching less that pleasurable, especially the video of the shoreline taken from the moving boat.

Other than that major flaw, however, the image quality and resolution of the video is fantastic! Although it is not equal to say the best-quality scenes in "Apocalypto", it is equal to, or better than, the vast majority of our 170 or so mainstream hd movies. Therefore, I think that a talented, motivated individual, or group of individuals, could produce a damned good movie (a human-interest drama, love story, or political-intrigue story, for example) with this camcorder and some good editing software.

But, again, there must be some way found to get good playback from an HTPC. If I could find a way to do that, I'd buy this cam to replace our 10-year-old Sony TRV20.

I'd be very interested to observe if the video plays back smoothy even when the camera is plugged directly into the projector, so if anyone buying one of these lives in Edmonton, Alberta, please PM me. Maybe you'd enjoy seeing how your video looks on a 120" screen.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herve View Post

Anyway, regardless of the measures that I have taken, I cannot get those clips to play back as smoothly as any of our 24 fps or 60 fps material in either PDVD (from an iso) or MPC-HC (as the original m2ts) using ReClock as the audio renderer in both players.

Try Nero Showtime if you can. You can get the demo here:

Nero 9 Demo

They played back flawless for me in nero showtime, and only had a few MINOR instances of stuttering when playing in Windows Media Player!!

(my system)
Win 7 Ultimate x64
phenom II 720 @ 3.2 ghz
4gb DDR3
ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB

It's not a beast of a machine, but it seems to handle these files well.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herve View Post


Anyway, regardless of the measures that I have taken, I cannot get those clips to play back as smoothly as any of our 24 fps or 60 fps material in either PDVD (from an iso) or MPC-HC (as the original m2ts)

test the various output rendering settings under 'view; options' in MPC. When set to 'overlay mixer' the video should playback smoothly. You can also try using KMplayer.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIK View Post

test the various output rendering settings under 'view; options' in MPC. When set to 'overlay mixer' the video should playback smoothly. You can also try using KMplayer.

Yes, this works! Fantastic! Thanks!

I had been using VMR7 (renderless) for all the other video. It's easy enough to switch filters for these m2ts clips.

But, although playback is now silky smooth, I hear the occasional audio breakup near the end of the 160 MB clip (view of shoreline from moving boat). Are you getting that, too? (Again, I'm using ReClock.)

Thanks again.

And, again, this camera has very good PQ. It's all up to the operator to get the most out of it.
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Old 03-20-2010, 03:08 PM
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Here is the US user manual:
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER...CHS700-MUL.PDF

I'm amazed that nowhere does it mention what recording mode is what (except the 1080/60p, that is clearly labeled). The rest are 4 recording modes and you have no idea what resolution, frame rate and interlaced or progressive you are recording. They just label them with some meaningless abbreviations like HA, HG, etc. Whoever is responsible for the manuals at Panasonic has to be fired
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:45 PM
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Thanks for the link.

On p152:

Recording mode and
transfer rate

1080/60p: Approx. 28 Mbps (VBR)
HA: Approx. 17 Mbps (VBR)
HG: Approx. 13 Mbps (VBR)
HX: Approx. 9 Mbps (VBR)
HE: Approx. 5 Mbps (VBR)
Refer to page 147 for the recordable time.

Picture size

1080/60p: 1920k1080/60p
HA/HG/HX/HE: 1920k1080/60i
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herve View Post


But, although playback is now silky smooth, I hear the occasional audio breakup near the end of the 160 MB clip (view of shoreline from moving boat). Are you getting that, too? (Again, I'm using ReClock.)

Thanks again.

nice to hear you got it working. As for the audio breakup, I didn't encounter the problem. I'm not using ReClock but the audio renderer options in MPC are set to 'system default'. It could be the soundcard configuration, so you might have to tweak around any available codec options listed.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theory View Post

Thanks for the link.

On p152:

Recording mode and
transfer rate

1080/60p: Approx. 28 Mbps (VBR)
HA: Approx. 17 Mbps (VBR)
HG: Approx. 13 Mbps (VBR)
HX: Approx. 9 Mbps (VBR)
HE: Approx. 5 Mbps (VBR)
Refer to page 147 for the recordable time.

Picture size

1080/60p: 1920k1080/60p
HA/HG/HX/HE: 1920k1080/60i

st_o_p,

Theory is correct. You can also take a look here.

Panasonic.net

check out the chart of recording time.

From what I have gathered, everything is in 1080/60i Though there is a 24p mode, but it is still wrapped in 1080i. (i'm sure the manual covers that though)
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:58 PM
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Quote:


Verdict

Overall, the HDC-TM700 produces a killer combination of consummate manual control and best-of-breed image quality. And with a price already similar to the outgoing models, you should look no further than this if you're in the market for a top-end HD camcorder with semi-pro capabilities. Panasonic has cemented the lead it acquired in 2009, and upped the ante still further, making this the camcorder to beat in 2010.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcor...c-HDC-TM700/p1
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:27 PM
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He did say that the stabilizer is much better but he claims that the low-light capabilities is slightly better because the chips are similar. Even if the better noise reduction technology of the TM700 is just marketing, their should be a decent difference going from f/1.8 to f/1.5.
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:51 PM
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I downloaded one of the "vimeo" clips posted above - the 75 MB clip of the approaching and passing train.

The clip begins with the cam zoomed in. I don't know if it was maximum, but as the train comes into view the cam operator zooms back out, revealing just how zoomed things were at the beginning.

Anyway, even at high zoom, the image is still quite stable, and high quality.

If one were to use a "steady cam" type of device, again, I think one could obtain near-professional results.
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