Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 12:37 PM
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hmmm does edius also allow the audio to be kept at 5.1 ac3? Sony vegas could not seem to get working in 5.1 at all - adobe premiere I can only get the option of aac audio when I choose export.

currently trying a simple M2TS to mkv conversion with handbrake which normally used for converting bluray rips.

At this point I'm just trying to get something that works best to get my popcorn player to play the files properly and with decent/untouched audio before I start looking at getting into proper editing adding effects and suchlike
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post #182 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 01:16 PM
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I'm working on options now... I think it works. I know I can export the video and audio separate keeping the 5.1 AC3 file for audio....
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post #183 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 01:23 PM
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Okay.. can't find a way to convert to h264 with AC3. Neo wants to convert it to PCM... You can however edit and then export just the video, and export the audio as AC3 5.1 separately then either use authoring app to author a Blu-Ray or just use V-Dub Mod to recombine them with direct stream copy which should be very quick and give you the proper file with AC3 5.1 audio.
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post #184 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 01:25 PM
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Past 3 posts so here's the direct link to vimeo page with neo editing the 1080p60 footy:
http://www.vimeo.com/10384127
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post #185 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 01:30 PM
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can confirm that Handbrake allows it to keep the ac3 file if just trying to do simple conversions without adding effects etc.

Would hope theres some way to keep audio in 5.1 format within the proper editing programs though, especially when start messing with joining vids, cutting etc as wouldnt be able to remux it manually then
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post #186 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 01:34 PM
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Okay.. tried CS4.2 and it does work but again.. not as smooth and you need to lower preview or select auto which in turn lowers it. Forget adding any effects or multiple layers, but for one track with no effects it does play.
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post #187 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Tboy View Post

can confirm that Handbrake allows it to keep the ac3 file if just trying to do simple conversions without adding effects etc.

Would hope theres some way to keep audio in 5.1 format within the proper editing programs though, especially when start messing with joining vids, cutting etc as wouldnt be able to remux it manually then


I'm sure Edius 5.5 (due out next month) will be able to handle the 5.1 better than Neo. The full Edius 5.X has the multitrack mixer which I now see is missing in Neo 2.5.

CS4 sees all 5 audio tracks/channels.
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post #188 of 3783 Old 03-23-2010, 03:27 PM
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Here's a low light test in which he gradually increases the gain.
http://vimeo.com/10382771

The top videos are stabilizer tests.
http://vimeo.com/groups/native1920x108060pclips/videos

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post #189 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 06:58 AM
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Question.

For the SD700 model does the card have to be certain class to record at 1080p60.
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post #190 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 07:15 AM
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Usually class 6 or better is recommended. Anything lower and you'll get a chance of the video stopping. You'll most likely be safe using a class 4 in all the other modes. Also, certain brands of cards aren't as fast as others in the same class.

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post #191 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 08:02 AM
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I have both a class 4 and a class 6 at 8gb each, which i've borrowed from my digital camera. I'm waiting to find a decent deal for 32gb SD cards at the moment to go in.

I've not had a problem while testing the class 4. In theory class 4 should be fine, as its meant to be a MINIMUM of 4megabytes/sec write speed.....and the panasonic writing at 28megabits = 3.5megabytes per second....so 4Mbytes/sec = 32mbits...so even with overheads it should be fine. Also the fact that the cards if they're genuinely class 4 will normally be a bit faster than that minimum too
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post #192 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Here's a low light test in which he gradually increases the gain.
http://vimeo.com/10382771

The top videos are stabilizer tests.
http://vimeo.com/groups/native1920x108060pclips/videos

seems to have very low noise even with max gain....
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post #193 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 11:31 AM
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so has anyone who owns a ps3 tried playing the raw footage back on it to see how well it plays now?

Tempted to get a ps3 at mo anyway, to go alongside my couple of 360s (one of which has just rrod'd grrr)...so if it can since recent ps3 updates play it back now then it might seal the deal for me, and save me time having to recode stuff to be able to watch it back, and keeping optimal quality
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post #194 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 11:33 AM
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Paulo Teixeira...went a few pages back and saw you posted you tried them flawlessly on a ps3. Where these 50p files or 60p? And where they definately the untouched files? As in that cnet review they said there was lots of issues in them playing smoothly on the ps3....but take it there has been recent ps3 updates that might have sorted it?
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post #195 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 11:51 AM
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Well some of those files did play smoothly but only if i paused then press play again. But yesterday i downloaded another one of those clips, the one of moving landscape and this one stuttered even after pausing and playing.

So now i don't trust the PS3 is powerful enough.

Will playing them direct off the camcorder work ok?
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post #196 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 12:00 PM
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playing direct off the camcorder to the tv does work perfectly fine.....but obv once the memory cards become full, it wouldnt really be practical to copy files from disc/hdd back onto memory card to put into the camcorder to then play.

My own pc is too slow to do a LOT of video editing (though I wont be using the camera every day I suppose)...but was considering upgrading the pc to an I7-860......though begrudge buying another one really since other than that the pc is just a net browser/downloader and wotnot.

Having a ps3 gives me an excuse to play a few more games :P plus if could get them to play smoothly then it would be an ideal option, though obv not as ideal as if my media player the popcorn, could have played them smoothly. Oh and being fair bit cheaper too

I'll have to do a few more tests with the 50i files on my popcorn player.....to see how much lag I get....as suppose for most 'home video' recording I can just record in that resolution...and then if I want to mess with scenery and other shots I can just do them as and when need the extra quality
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post #197 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 12:32 PM
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I plan on getting the TM700, and am curious about the1080/60p video. If I am making a Blu-ray in Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere, and the settings are set for 1080/30p, and I import the 60p footage, will the video play back at normal speed in the time line, or will it look like it was shot faster and play at only half the speed? Because if it did, that would be a huge plus for me since slo-mo footage makes regular mundane things look interesting (see: Myhtbusters, Time Warp).
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post #198 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 12:50 PM
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All of the files with the M2TS wrapper plays fine although I'm checking it on a standard definition TV since my old HD Tube TV that I've had for several years have decided to die on me months ago. Anyway, I haven't downloaded the fresh MTS versions that are on Vimeo.

I'm actually thinking about going to the Sony store today and see if I can get permission to try the clips on a display PS3 to see how it'll look on one of their HD TV's.

In case people doesn't know it, the PS3 can also playback RAW HDV, DivX, and WMV files. It even streams YouTube and NetFlix files. Theirs also a decently functional web browser that is said to be faster than Internet Explorer. I would still love to see FireFox on the PS3. For QuickTime files, you have to take it out of the .MOV wrapper first. It seems like a game to me in which the PS3 doesn't play QuickTime files while Apple's software's doesn't edit AVCHD files natively. Sony and Apple really needs to talk to each other about this.

Did I mention the PS3 can also play DVD's, Blu-Ray's and even video games? Yes, It does play those as well if your wondering.

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post #199 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eday_2010 View Post

I plan on getting the TM700, and am curious about the1080/60p video. If I am making a Blu-ray in Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere, and the settings are set for 1080/30p, and I import the 60p footage, will the video play back at normal speed in the time line, or will it look like it was shot faster and play at only half the speed? Because if it did, that would be a huge plus for me since slo-mo footage makes regular mundane things look interesting (see: Myhtbusters, Time Warp).

It would actually play at normal speed in Premiere. You have to go through one extra step to have it playback in slow motion on the time line.
Now is not a good time to buy CS4. If you must have Premiere, it's better to wait for CS5. As has been said a lot of times, for people who are on Windows, something like Edius Neo 2 Booster is a very powerful editor for only $200 if you can't afford anything with more features. At the moment it actually edits better than Premiere Pro CS4 on a week computer. It'll be interesting comparing it to CS5 with Adobe's new Mercury Engine.

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post #200 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

It would actually play at normal speed in Premiere. You have to go through one extra step to have it playback in slow motion on the time line.
Now is not a good time to buy CS4. If you must have Premiere, it's better to wait for CS5. As has been said a lot of times, for people who are on Windows, something like Edius Neo 2 Booster is a very powerful editor for only $200 if you can't afford anything with more features. At the moment it actually edits better than Premiere Pro CS4 on a week computer. It'll be interesting comparing it to CS5 with Adobe's new Mercury Engine.

How would it work in Sony Vegas? What extra step is needed in Premiere to get it to play in slow motion fluidly (i.e better than taking 30p footage and changing the playback speed to 50%).

I've previously used Premiere Elements for my past SD DVD making, simply because I can edit everything together, make the menus, and burn the disc all from within the program. However, it would crash a lot, so I was looking as Sony Vegas for when I get a new PC capable of handling HD video. I've tried using Premiere CS4 before on a "trial" basis, but could not get Encore to start. And from the reviews I have read Sony Vegas is loaded with some great features.
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post #201 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 05:25 PM
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Watch.Impress review of the TM700:
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/s...24_356414.html

English Translated:
http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&sl=ja&tl=en

They sound very positive about it.

I would not be surprised if we'll be able to author Blu-Ray movies very soon. Like they said, the Blu-Ray standard has been upgraded to included 3D so you never know. Keep in mind that Panasonic holds a lot of patents in Blu-Ray. Now rather or not Sony would want it to happen soon remains to be seen since this would be helping TM700 sales but then again, even the MTS files are compatible with the PS3, not just the M2TS files. I think it all depends on how you transfer the files to your computer. You'll still notice bugs in the playback sometimes.

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post #202 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eday_2010 View Post

How would it work in Sony Vegas? What extra step is needed in Premiere to get it to play in slow motion fluidly (i.e better than taking 30p footage and changing the playback speed to 50%).

I would imagine that vegas you'd just ad a video envelope and drop the speed to 50%, double the length like you said. Not sure about premiere...but I could play around with that tonight!


EDIT: Tried it out in vegas with the choppy water video (20100314_150853.m2ts) linked to earlier, and it looked pretty sweet!!
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post #203 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Watch.Impress review of the TM700:
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/s...24_356414.html

English Translated:
http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&sl=ja&tl=en

They sound very positive about it.

I would not be surprised if we'll be able to author Blu-Ray movies very soon. Like they said, the Blu-Ray standard has been upgraded to included 3D so you never know. Keep in mind that Panasonic holds a lot of patents in Blu-Ray. Now rather or not Sony would want it to happen soon remains to be seen since this would be helping TM700 sales but then again, even the MTS files as compatible with the PS3, not just the M2TS files. I think it all depends on how you transfer the files to your computer. You'll still notice bugs in the playback sometimes.

The 28mbps video played in KMplayer but not the other ones, just the audio portion. So far all of the native 28mbps files I played like the cat etc were the best I have seen from any $1,000 camcorder or VDSLR.
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post #204 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 07:38 PM
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In Premiere Pro, you first make a 29.97 time-line and then import the 1080 60p files. Right click a file and select "Interpret Footage". Once the box pops up, select "Assume this frame rate" Put 29.97 in the field. Now you can put that file inside the time-line and it'll always play in slow motion.



Anyway, here is another low-light clip:
http://vimeo.com/10414600
It was shot in the intelligent Auto mode so I'd assume certain parts could look much better if shot in manual.

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post #205 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 08:44 PM
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What I do not understand is why these new Panasonic camcorders do not have a setting for 24Mbps for 60i recording? That means to make Blu-ray disks that will actually play on a blu-ray player, you have to use the inferior bitrate of 17Mbps. So the Canon, Sony and JVC camcorders will make for higher-quality Blu-ray playable videos, no?

I think this is a major shortcoming.

Or is there a new 24Mbps capability for 60i that I missed?
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post #206 of 3783 Old 03-24-2010, 08:44 PM
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Out of the box, Adobe Premiere Elements 7 (PE7) does not support 50p or 60p timelines. The bundled presets are limited to 25i and 30i timelines. This means progressive footage is 'downgraded' to interlaced mode -- PE7 will still edit them and render out your final video, but it's compromised because the editor assumes it's working on interlaced-video.

Anyway, a while back, Adobe posted a CanonHDVpreset for Premiere Pro, which added "Canon HDV progressive modes (1440x1080 30p, 1440x1080 25p)" to PPro's list of presets. The update installs and works in Premiere Elements 7. Then, a user was able to modify Adobe's CanonHDVpreset, and extend it with p24/p50/p60 presets. Basically, it enabled PE7 to create projects with the following timelines:1080p24, 720p50, 720p60, 1080p50, and 1080p60.

Using that patch (elements7_24p_50p_60p.zip), I was able to read the Panasonic 1080p60 test-clips into a 1080p60 timeline, and render them out at 1080p60. I didn't try any real heavy-duty editing (merging clips, fading, splicing, etc.), but I was very surprised it worked at all.

The reason being... PE7 is *known* to have problems reading 720p50/720p60 recordings made by the Panasonic GH1. Opening such a file in PE7 (with or without the preset patch installed) causes the program to hang or slow to a crawl. PE7 seems to have the same trouble with AVCHD-lite (720p30) recordings from the Panasonic FZ35/38, TZ7/ZS3 and other models. It's very puzzling, because the GH1 and AVHCD-lite files max out at 17Mbps, while Canon and Sony's newer AVCHD camcorders produce recordings at the full 24Mbps. And I've never had problems editing Canon AVCHD (24Mbps) files in PE7.

Sadly, the latest version, Premiere Elements 8, removed the ability to add user (hacked) presets. The preset-patch does NOT work in PE8, so while PE8 can at least read the GH1 and AVCHD-lite files without crashing, it can't edit them natively in a proper 50p/60p timeline. (Well, you can do some nice overcranking effects...)

Here's the link to the preset-patch for Premiere Elements 7: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/447974?Start=0
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post #207 of 3783 Old 03-25-2010, 05:49 AM
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I found out that Handbrake on the Mac does a pretty decent job of converting that M2TS file of the train into MP4. I'm still looking for a lossless alternative that would just unpackage the M2TS tracks and repackage them into an MP4, since Handbrake re-encodes. There are a couple of open-source utilities that may do the job, but I need to do some experimenting. If I can get those files into an MP4 wrapper, I'm hopeful iMovie can handle them.
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post #208 of 3783 Old 03-25-2010, 07:49 AM
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In case anyone is curious, this camera is definitely shipping in the US now from Panasonic direct. I place my order on Tuesday and it shipped last night. It'll be here Friday (yeah, I paid the $11 for 2-day shipping, what's an extra 1% of the purchase price anyway).

I'm not normally so impulsive when it comes to purchasing things such as these, but I decided to just let myself do it this time. This will be my first HD camcorder and I'm upgrading from a Sony mini-DV tape SD camcorder.

I'll be sure to post back any impressions (for whatever it may be worth).
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post #209 of 3783 Old 03-25-2010, 09:48 AM
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Same here, my order shipped last night and will be here next Tues. I too am upgrading from a Sony miniDV (TRV22).
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post #210 of 3783 Old 03-25-2010, 10:19 AM
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I wish I can say the same thing. Anyway their is a chance that I may be able to borrow one from someone. If and when that happens and somebody who owns either a top Sony or Canon camcorder wants to do a shoot-out with me in Massachusetts, I'm all for it. I would also like to have people who had one of the previous top Panasonic camcorders, like the TM300, TM350, etc. This is the best way to keep it as fair as possible.

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