Sony HDR-CX550V or Panasonic HDC-TM700? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 06:28 AM
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"Basically all I'm saying is that even if 1080 60p wont become a common standard anytime soon, using it for slow motion is a very good legitimate reason to have it right now."

I agree with you - if you are into doing slo-mo, this is useful. But most of the posts appear to be about how the quality of 60p compares to 60i in non slo-mo videos (not the quality of stills (which is irrelevant)). And here, there is no practical advantage.

Then, we want to compare 720 60p slo-mo to 1080 60p slo-mo only to know what the advantage is for this rarely used technique among consumers.

Obviously having this option is better than not having it, but it should be clear exactly what the advantage is - limited. Indeed, it would be better to have a 720 60p option than only the 1080 60p option, as it would provide an excellent slo-mo capability and be playable on most devices.
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post #92 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonk22 View Post

All the Youtube videos may be up to 1080p, but Youtube decreases quality and changes frame rate to 29.97 fps. Vimeo also doesn't have 60 fps videos unless you can download the original video.

Here are some videos straight off the TM700 at the original 1080/60p by Mrpenpengusa. You can compare it with his Youtube versions. Nero ShowTime plays them well:

Cat on Ginza St sign, 4th district:
http://firestorage.jp/download/b802c...4192c5e12b4b98

Suijou (on water) Bus (zooming on building under construction):
http://firestorage.jp/download/3e003...b9395f3071e23c

Suijou Bus (closeup of splashing water):
http://firestorage.jp/download/da961...926d1643f236c8

Suijou Bus (watching landscape):
http://firestorage.jp/download/3033d...88b81f2e1f68b6

Suijou Bus (filming from back of bus):
http://firestorage.jp/download/5a25f...4d24e3cad616f2

Zenkouji Temple:
http://firestorage.jp/download/ad80c...0ef5aa981f93ca

(Note: Firestorage files might expire)


All TM700, downloaded them and played them all on my PS3 perfectly fine...60p is a little jittery but put into FCP and shoved into a 30p timeline im sure it will look fine...try it yurself
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post #93 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

The 550 is completely compatible with iMovie. iMovie can archive all of the footage from the 550 (basically a file copy preserving file structure).

iMovie can import from that archive or directly from the camcorder. You can either import at 960X540 or 1920X1080, and iMovie transcodes to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) which is fast and easy to edit. The transcode happens faster than realtime on my MacBook Pro. You can then output to many formats.

The workflow is very easy. If you want to shoot movies, import them, edit them and output to a variety of formats, iMovie works fine with the 550.


I'm leaning a bit more toward the Sony...but David, what was the transfer rate that you used that iMovie copies and transcodes to AIC? Was it 1080/60i @24Mbps or something less?

Also, does anyone know if the TM700 is recognized by Imovie, transcoded into AIC in the same easy workflow? If not, then my decision would be Sony. Also, if the TM700 can't be used in 1080/60p 28Mbps (or whatever the max bit rate is), and thus I'd be likely to not use it until there's an easier MAC workflow, my decision would be Sony.

Looking forward to answers since I'm getting closer...and thanks much to people for sharing.

BTW: is the Sony accessory shoe a hot or cold shoe? The TM700 says cold, so you need power with a light and Mic. I will likely use a Mic at least, so I was curious.

Jonathan
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post #94 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 10:20 AM
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It's good news that the PS3 plays them but Sony does need to fix the supply issues it been having lately especially the $300 version.

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post #95 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

It's good news that the PS3 plays them but Sony does need to fix the supply issues it been having lately especially the $300 version.

I'm glad I paid 600 for mine so it works twice as good
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post #96 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nahtanoj View Post

I'm leaning a bit more toward the Sony...but David, what was the transfer rate that you used that iMovie copies and transcodes to AIC? Was it 1080/60i @24Mbps or something less?

Also, does anyone know if the TM700 is recognized by Imovie, transcoded into AIC in the same easy workflow? If not, then my decision would be Sony. Also, if the TM700 can't be used in 1080/60p 28Mbps (or whatever the max bit rate is), and thus I'd be likely to not use it until there's an easier MAC workflow, my decision would be Sony.

Looking forward to answers since I'm getting closer...and thanks much to people for sharing.

BTW: is the Sony accessory shoe a hot or cold shoe? The TM700 says cold, so you need power with a light and Mic. I will likely use a Mic at least, so I was curious.

I tested iMovie import from the CX550 with both 24 Mbps and 18 Mbps footage. Both worked fine.

Since the TM700 isn't out yet, it is not certain if it will work with iMovie. My guess is that if it uses standard AVCHD file structure, there should be no problem. The issue will be with the 1080 60p footage, since that isn't in an AVCHD file structure. I posted a link to another thread in which someone figured out how to work with Sanyo 60p footage in iMovie, but it requires some workarounds. I value simplicity, and I don't have a pressing need to shoot in 60p, so I just work in 60i

The Sony accessory shoe is a hot shoe, and will work with various Sony mics, including a bluetooth wireless mic. There are also video lights, still image flashes, and IR lights that work with it. See

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921666073231

and click on accessories for more information.
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post #97 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 01:49 PM
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Based on the 50p samples available on the Videoaktiv.de site, it looks like the files will be Media Transport Streams (MTS) just like AVCHD, probably using Level 4.2 AVC video instead of AVCHD's Level 4.1. I can only assume that the same file format will be used in the US model's 60p files. I suspect they did this to keep compatibility with NLEs as high as possible.
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post #98 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 03:04 PM
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I'm pretty sure 4.2 is the bare minimum for 1080 60p files.

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post #99 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

I'm pretty sure 4.2 is the bare minimum for 1080 60p files.

If this Wikipedia page is accurate, I believe you're correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

4.1 will go up to 68.3fps but only at 720p; at 1080p, it will only go to 30.1fps. 4.2 will go up to 64fps at 1080p.
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post #100 of 810 Old 03-18-2010, 08:40 PM
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Even if People didn't know about that, they will if they use Premiere for example and want to export to 1080 60p.

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post #101 of 810 Old 03-19-2010, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

This thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142704

has information about using 60p in iMovie. It was written concerning Sanyo camcorders, such as the FH1, which can shoot 60p. Presumably the TM700 60p mode would work the same way. Note that the 60p mode is not AVCHD.

I use the CX550 with 60i and iMovie 09. The workflow is very simple. In iMovie there is a choice to create an archive of what is stored on the camcorder. This is basically a file copy preserving all of the file structure. At any point in the future, you can them import clips from the archive into iMovie, which transcodes them into AIC (apple intermediate codec). You get a choice of Large (960X540) or Full (1920X1080) on import. For a project which is going to an SD DVD, Large is fine. The nice thing is the archive is always there, if you want to import later at Full. Just keep the archive backed up, and you are safe.

Also, the CX550 has a mode in which you can directly attach a USB drive to it (without using a computer) and can copy to the USB drive and play movies and photos from that drive.

hi I have a CX505 and can not import the m2ts files stored on my Hard Disk (original from the camera) to iMovie09, could you please explain a little how to on this?
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post #102 of 810 Old 03-19-2010, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pachanga View Post

hi I have a CX505 and can not import the m2ts files stored on my Hard Disk (original from the camera) to iMovie09, could you please explain a little how to on this?

You have to properly archive the files from your camcorder to your computer's hard disk using iMovie in order to properly read the files into iMovie. iMovie can either import files from the camcorder, or from an archive that it has imported from the camcorder to the computer hard disk. I think that if you simply use the Finder to drag files from your camcorder's memory to your computer's hard disk, the correct file structure is not copied, and iMovie will then not import from the hard disk.

Also, for iMovie to work, you can not have a mix of SD and HD video stored in your camcorder's memory. If you have SD video, copy those separately from the camcorder using the Finder, then use the camcorder to erase the SD files before importing the HD files into iMovie.

Steps involved:

1 Turn on camcorder, hook up USB cable between camcorder and Mac.

2 On camcorder LCD screen, select USB connect.

3 Depending on how your Mac is set up, and if there are jpg images on the camcorder, iPhoto might start up. You can copy relevant jpg images to iPhoto or just quit iPhoto.

4 start up iMovie 09 (it is probably OK to already have it running)

5 From the file menu, choose Import from Camera . . .

6 A window opens up, showing thumbnails of all of the clips on the camera. You can choose anyone and play it.

7 At this point you can Import All or select clips to import. What I like to do is choose Archive All . . . at the bottom of the window. Choose a location then click on Create. This doesn't actually import the clips into iMovie, but it basically does a file copy from the camcorder to your hard disk, preserving the correct AVCHD structure. I find this useful, as you can then later import the clips into iMovie without having the camcorder connected. jpg images are also copied into the archive.

8 Once the archive is copied you can disconnect the camcorder. Press the up triangle at the bottom of the window to eject, then press End on the camcorder LCD display, disconnect the cable and press YES on the camcorder LCD display.

9 To actually import footage from the archive into iMovie, from the file menu choose Import>Camera Archive . . . and select the correct archive. You will then get the window showing all of the clips, and you can import all or import checked clips, etc. You have a choice to import at Large (960X540) or Full (1920X1080), and in either case iMovie will transcode to AIC at the selected size.

I like this workflow, as the Archive contains the original files, and I can import only those I want to work with in iMovie. I can import at Large or Full resolution, depending on my final output.
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post #103 of 810 Old 03-30-2010, 03:44 PM
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camcorderinfo now has a review up for the HDC-TM700. The only editing program they are aware of having the ability to edit 1080/60p files is the included software from Panasonic - and it is PC only.
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post #104 of 810 Old 03-30-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

This thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142704

has information about using 60p in iMovie. It was written concerning Sanyo camcorders, such as the FH1, which can shoot 60p. Presumably the TM700 60p mode would work the same way. Note that the 60p mode is not AVCHD.

Post 22 in this thread reports success importing a TM-700 1080p clip into iMovie.
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post #105 of 810 Old 03-30-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTU16 View Post

I am leaning toward the Sony now. I was leaning toward the Panasonic, but I decided in my inexperienced state, I will probably be happier with the better stabilization, low light conditions, and honestly some of the Auto functions.

I dont know that the people watching my videos will be missing some of the finer points like 60p.

Does that make sense or am I confused?

Also, is any class 6 high speed SDHC okay or are there brands or things to stay away from? Does anyone have recommendations on cards for these cameras?

I use a 16GB Sandisk Extreme III Class 6 30mb/sec SDHC card with my Pentax K-7 for HD video and never had any problems. I have not seen any consumer Sony video that has better stabilization or low light quality than the HDC-HS700 yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-G4J...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXZ6o...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dxh7...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qONES...eature=channel
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post #106 of 810 Old 03-30-2010, 04:22 PM
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I sort of expected them to be this favorable of the camcorder knowing how much they obsessed over the TM300 but what I really don't get is that how is the low light capabilities of the TM700 not noticeably better than the TM300 when the lens went from f/1.8 to f/1.5? They did say that the colors when shooting at night are a lot better. That sounds slightly contradictory.

"The HDC-TM700 did reasonably well in our low light sensitivity test. The camcorder required 11 lux of light to reach 50 IRE on our waveform monitor—a slightly higher amount of light than its predecessor, the HDC-TM300, required. Still, this is a better score than both the Canon HF S21 and Sony HDR-CX500V achieved in the same test."

"The HDC-TM700 measured a color error of 4.96 in our low light test, which is a nearly identical score to last year's HDC-TM300. The shocking part, however, is the fact that the TM700 had a much better saturation level of 80.92%—compared to the TM300's 65.09%. This stronger saturation level really makes the TM700's low light image look a whole lot more pleasing."


As far as software is concerned, if you have a very powerful computer, Premiere Pro 4 works with the native files and Edius Neo 2 Booster works even better.

What would make the tests better is by showing native clips from each camcorder just like the Watch.Impress review.

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post #107 of 810 Old 04-10-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Don't take a mere statement that shooting hockey at 60i is ok. Here is a hockey video, indoors, shot at 1080, 60i with a shutter speed of 1/60th, 17Mbps, handheld:

I think these are fine (choose to watch at 1080p). The videos look much better before YouTube conversion, of course.

Olympics hockey was shot at 60i and looked great, so you do not need progressive unless you are interested in slo-mo.

Wow, thanks! Sorry for a bit late reply, but this video is really good, and now I just can't wait for a new camera and a new hockey season As for 60p, well, slow motion sounds real fun, but truth be told - I'd rarely use it probably. But let's keep it on the list.. after all neither slow mo nor sharper videos can't hurt anyone Thanks again for this video!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe1946 View Post

Anyone who thinks getting a Class 6 SDHC card to use with a HD camcorder in 2010 is a waste is not thinking straight. A Class 6 card only cost a few bucks more and will load HD video to a PC faster and is more future proof if you upgrade to a 1080p60 camcorder or VDSLR.

Joe, it's more about using your old(er) equipment that you've already have. I've got Class 4 16GB SD memory card, so I'm very interested if I'll need to spend more money and literally throw my old card to trash, or will I be able to use it. According to what people here say I'll be able to use it, so that makes me happy. If I would be buying new card for some reason, sure, I'd spend few $ more to get a much faster memory.. But I'd still rather not buy new if I can use what I've already got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffturn9 View Post

All TM700, downloaded them and played them all on my PS3 perfectly fine...60p is a little jittery but put into FCP and shoved into a 30p timeline im sure it will look fine...try it yurself

I'm afraid these videos are gone Any other source perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by basic_cable View Post

camcorderinfo now has a review up for the HDC-TM700. The only editing program they are aware of having the ability to edit 1080/60p files is the included software from Panasonic - and it is PC only.

Just wanted to add the link, so people don't have to search for it.. Thanks for the heads up though
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...view-37681.htm

I'm gonna read that review now, but I wanted to say a little thing about 60i vs 60p .. and the "lack of players".. Sure, maybe BluRay doesn't support it, but I thought we're in a new technology age. I'm first one that ain't ever gonna buy a BluRay player, burner, or discs. Why? Simple - not worth the price. For the price of supporting hardware I can build a HTPC, and for the cost of discs (storage) I can buy much more in HDD storage which I can than add to that same HTPC. Friends and family? They can watch it online. YouTube and Vimeo don't support it? Who CARES?! I've got hosting that's oh-so-cheap, with unlimited bandwidth, and unlimited storage, I will just upload any videos I want to share with anyone else, and let it either be an ordinary file download (something that anyone can setup on their web pages) which can than be played on any PC, or I'll provide an online player, and will thus provide an easy and friendly solution for their family and friends to enjoy (suitable for people like me that are not afraid to put in some time to setup their website). So I don't expect any playback issues with either playing it myself, or sharing with anyone else.

EDIT: Just finished reading the review.. Pretty good review, but unfortunately they didn't provide any photos/videos in full size resolution :/ Good thing is - Canon HF S21 is reviewed there, so you can compare. And after reading short comparison, I'm not looking at Canon anymore. It's more expensive, has worse image quality, lower battery life, just stereo mic integrated etc. Only thing going for it is larger screen (dooh!), and larger built in memory (which ain't that big of an advantage either, with SDHC cards being available quite cheaply these days).
They did seem to bash Panasonic for that 1080/60p recording mode, not the recording itself, but the file format. But I think they overdid it, even if it's not widely supported at the moment, I don't see that being an issue for long, it can't be but a small patch for any better video editing tool. And while not AVCHD, it's still normal MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and that's all that matters to me. (EDIT2: Seems there are already several programs supporting it just nicely.. like Edius Neo 2.5 & Premiere CS4 that Paulo mentioned: http://vimeo.com/10384127, Final Cut Pro for Mac: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1950263 - just follow vimeo links; Vegas was mentioned as well.. so plenty of choices, and more will come I'm sure.. )
Anyway.. now we're just waiting for Sony to come out and get reviewed, preferrably by side by side with TM700

EDIT.. last for today: I've downloaded 2GB of TM700 test videos in 60p mostly.. and they've all got one particular problem - stuttering. Whenever there is too much motion in the scene, either because of panning or because there are lots of people/animals/cars in the picture, it starts stuttering.. I don't see that as being acceptable for a higher end camera, even if it's "just" a high-end consumer model.. I can pan around more slowly, but if it goes nuts every time there are 5 people in the scene it's unusable :/ Anyone got experience with HD cams and this problem?
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post #108 of 810 Old 04-10-2010, 06:35 PM
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How are you playing the files? With Nero 9, you'll need a powerful computer to get smooth motion without issues. The PS3 is a good option although some users may have problems. .

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post #109 of 810 Old 04-10-2010, 06:48 PM
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Yes, stuttering is likely a player problem. Connect the TM700 using HDMI directly to a good HDTV. You will not see any of this. Action scenes use more bits, and this can choke many players.
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post #110 of 810 Old 04-10-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

EDIT.. last for today: I've downloaded 2GB of TM700 test videos in 60p mostly.. and they've all got one particular problem - stuttering. Whenever there is too much motion in the scene, either because of panning or because there are lots of people/animals/cars in the picture, it starts stuttering.. I don't see that as being acceptable for a higher end camera, even if it's "just" a high-end consumer model.. I can pan around more slowly, but if it goes nuts every time there are 5 people in the scene it's unusable :/ Anyone got experience with HD cams and this problem?

Not a problem with the camera. Everyone that plays the clips from the camera gets buttery smooth motion. That's the beauty of 1080p. If you're having a stuttering problem it's more than likely your computer isn't powerful enough to play 1920X1080 60p.

I can't get them to play smoothly on a dual core, but they play like butter on my I7. Of course regardless, they play superbly from the camera directly to my HDTV plasma.
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post #111 of 810 Old 04-11-2010, 05:11 AM
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Thanks guys

I'm actually playing it on my dual core PC with (you wouldn't believe it) - Windows media player. For most part it's nice and smooth, but in "action" scenes it stutters a bit from time to time. I've monitored my CPU, and it's on ~10% so it's not that. But I'm now sure it's my PC, as I've just re-run same video 10x and stutters are never in the same place, each time I replay it stutters in different part (same scene, but like half a second earlier/later)

I've already got worried it's cam's problem

(on my way to find troublemaker..)
(EDIT: didn't find the reason.. changed video drivers, played from another HDD, used several different applications, changed codecs, upgraded audio drivers - more or less, always stays same. But if I slow down video on the fly to 50%, meaning 30p, it plays nice and smooth... Obviously I need a better computer )

Info - there are some test pictures of Sony vs Panasonic here:
http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/c...vergleich.html
It's very limited, but seems that TM700 has better picture.. It still says that Sony hasn't been reviewed, but hopefully it will be soon.. I mean, they've got half of stuff done and posted, so I hope it's just a matter of days.. :P

Btw, does anyone know what would be the price for Panasonic SD700? It's mentioned on some regional Panasonic websites, like UK, but without price. If TM700 (999$) is same as SD700, and if SD700 is 15% cheaper like some price-search sites suggest (in UK), than it should be 849$, which makes it more affordable to buy SD700+Class 6 SDHC card (32GB) than buying TM700. Of course, IF that's the price, and IF nothing else except storage differs from them... and IF it will be available worldwide :/
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post #112 of 810 Old 04-11-2010, 08:48 AM
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Significant differences in luminance resolution and color with the 700 being better. To my eyes the color on the Sony is the issue I have with many of the videos with my 500, the color tends to be 'creamy' at times. I saw the same thing with a clip that was posted on Vimeo comparing the 550 to the 700.
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post #113 of 810 Old 04-11-2010, 12:22 PM
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Thanks guys

I'm actually playing it on my dual core PC with (you wouldn't believe it) - Windows media player. For most part it's nice and smooth, but in "action" scenes it stutters a bit from time to time. I've monitored my CPU, and it's on ~10% so it's not that. But I'm now sure it's my PC, as I've just re-run same video 10x and stutters are never in the same place, each time I replay it stutters in different part (same scene, but like half a second earlier/later)

I've already got worried it's cam's problem

(on my way to find troublemaker..)
(EDIT: didn't find the reason.. changed video drivers, played from another HDD, used several different applications, changed codecs, upgraded audio drivers - more or less, always stays same. But if I slow down video on the fly to 50%, meaning 30p, it plays nice and smooth... Obviously I need a better computer ):/

I have the same problem on a i5 system. Almost not using any CPU but stutters time to time. When I turn DXVA off it will be better.
Also another player changes the stuttering.
I think it is more a software/codec problem then hardware, but not sure.

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Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

Btw, does anyone know what would be the price for Panasonic SD700? It's mentioned on some regional Panasonic websites, like UK, but without price. If TM700 (999$) is same as SD700, and if SD700 is 15% cheaper like some price-search sites suggest (in UK), than it should be 849$, which makes it more affordable to buy SD700+Class 6 SDHC card (32GB) than buying TM700. Of course, IF that's the price, and IF nothing else except storage differs from them... and IF it will be available worldwide :/

In the Netherlands the SD700 is available at about 860 euro.
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post #114 of 810 Old 04-12-2010, 11:15 AM
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I have the same problem on a i5 system. Almost not using any CPU but stutters time to time. When I turn DXVA off it will be better.
Also another player changes the stuttering.
I think it is more a software/codec problem then hardware, but not sure.

I think that CPU utilization is low because decoding is offloaded to GPU. When I've uninstalled Catalyst drivers (I've got ATI HD4890) CPU was on 80-90% and stuttering was unbearable. But changing drivers didn't help.. Perhaps they're not optimized for 60p video..
EDIT: Changed back all the way to Catalyst 9.4 (almost full 12 months old drivers), and while video stuttered few times (much less!) on the first run, it played 100% smooth on second run (played on loop). So it's definitely ATI drivers, but I'm not going to use 12 months old drivers just because of few stutters. Hopefully I'll get around it by the time I actually buy the cam

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In the Netherlands the SD700 is available at about 860 euro.

Thanks for the info!
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post #115 of 810 Old 04-12-2010, 08:46 PM
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The stability control of the two seems to be the pressing matter for me. I really like the 60p of the Panny and the LCD screen of the Sony. Wife really wants the stability though as my current Canon HG10 performs poorly in that department. Anyone have any comparisons of walking with the 2 camcorders?

Thanks.
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post #116 of 810 Old 04-12-2010, 09:42 PM
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^ I think you will love the Sony. Even if it's 60i (it's smooth enough IMO, 60p is better but i love my cx550v), it's amazing! And the screen is gorgeous and the camera has many features and the optical/active stabilizer is bloody brilliant!
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post #117 of 810 Old 04-13-2010, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PannTher View Post

The stability control of the two seems to be the pressing matter for me. I really like the 60p of the Panny and the LCD screen of the Sony. Wife really wants the stability though as my current Canon HG10 performs poorly in that department. Anyone have any comparisons of walking with the 2 camcorders?

Thanks.

The stability of both is very good. I can only compare my Sony XR500 and my Panny 700 is the equal of that stabilization system.

My opinion is that since I can walk with the Panny and it's quite stable as I do so, I'll go for the better PQ. I can always do things to even further stabilize the Panasonic, but there's nothing I can do to get more resolution out of the Sony. The smooth motion of 60p is simply the best.

They're both great cameras, but after seeing the 1080p picture, I'd never buy another camcorder without it.
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post #118 of 810 Old 04-13-2010, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
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The stability of both is very good. I can only compare my Sony XR500 and my Panny 700 is the equal of that stabilization system.

This has been discussed ad nauseam... the CX550 stabilization has been improved over the XR500, making your constant comparison to an older model useless.

The CX550 stabilization is absolutely amazing, and can pass for a professional 'steady cam' setup in many shots. PannTher, don't let some people that insist on comparing current models to older models confuse you.
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post #119 of 810 Old 04-13-2010, 06:19 AM
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Keep in mind, that 1080p/60 is not part of the Blu-ray standard (or AVCHD) so the only way to play your files is on a PC or maybe a standalone player (if you find one which support it). Of course you can downsample to 1080i for mastering a blu-ray.

A few features on the Sony side ( CX550 ):

- much beter LCD screen comparing with Panasonic ( 4 x pixels)
- better viewfinder ( 2x pixels)
- Direct Copy ( USB host) which allows you to connect an external harddrive . This alone is a almost a deal breaker for me, as it allows cheap additional storage when you travel ( a 500 GB 2.5" external harddrive is under $90 ).
-Better OIS ( I would say filming while walking is what I'm doing most).


What I like on Panasonic:
-108060/p ( main feature I would say, without this I would not even consider Panny)
- SDXC support ( sony just has SDHC support, but has Direct Copy) so much cheaper storage as you have 64GB internal and maybe 1 or 2 32 GB cards (I hardly see you need more than this for a day of filming and you can allways upload your movies during the night on the HDD). But if in the furure higher capacity SDXC cards will become dirt cheap, it would ne nice to have it ( It's not so long ago when a 4 GB Compact flash was $600 so in 2-3 years we may see 256 GB SDXC under 100 $). I'm sure next Sony refresh will add SDXC support also.


My prognosis for next year models:

- Sony will add support for SDXC cards. However I doubt they will add support for 1080p (maybe 2 years from now...). For sure it will not come before a new BIONZ processor is release.Also remember Sony took it's time to switch from 17 bit's to 24 bit's on AVCHD ( to keep compatibility with AVCHD recorded on DVD which maxes out at 17 b/s).

- Panasonic will replace the LCD /viewfinder with a higher resolution one.
- Panasonic will add "walking" mode for OIS.

Both Sony and Panny may shrink the cameras a little bit but if they keep the veiwfinder I don't expect more than 15% in size/weight.

Both may switch to an AMOLED display ( Samsung has some new briliant ones with capacitive touch screens now used on smartphones). An 800x480 super AMOLED screen on a camcorder would be great !

I don't see improvements on the image sensors at least not major for the next year models as both Panny and Sony have relatively new sensors, but the low light may improve a notch in the processing side.

These are may guesses only
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post #120 of 810 Old 04-13-2010, 06:50 AM
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A few features on the Sony side ( CX550 ):

- much beter LCD screen comparing with Panasonic ( 4 x pixels)
- better viewfinder ( 2x pixels)
- Direct Copy ( USB host) which allows you to connect an external harddrive . This alone is a almost a deal breaker for me, as it allows cheap additional storage when you travel ( a 500 GB 2.5" external harddrive is under $90 ).
-Better OIS ( I would say filming while walking is what I'm doing most).

Don't worry Ken, I know all your answers already so here goes:

- Better LCD? Doesn't matter, panny has 1080p60
- Direct Copy? Doesn't matter, panny has 1080p60
- Better OIS? Doesn't matter, no one walks and films (especially on vacation, or with kids, etc)

For the rest of us that can compare more than one feature, thanks for the balanced post adit
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