The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1624 Old 07-01-2010, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I can see it on the right side, but it's really hard to see anything shaking on the left side. Really weird.

Good observation. I've actually seen this before in some of my previous HD camcorders. I ascribe it to the AVC H.264 Codec which doesn't see enough frame variation in low contrast/detail areas to "bother" changing the location. This makes sense when you consider how much compression is taking place with Hi-Def videos like this. If you look really closely you can actually see where the codec stops updating the info. It's right by the vertical tile line just to the left of the carpet. Look at the very top of the frame and you can see the line moving but not the information to the left of it. Interesting indeed.
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post #452 of 1624 Old 07-01-2010, 06:24 PM
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So you have seen this prior to the 700? If it's a codec issue, it might be nothing specific to the 700.
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post #453 of 1624 Old 07-01-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post

Good observation. I've actually seen this before in some of my previous HD camcorders. I ascribe it to the AVC H.264 Codec which doesn't see enough frame variation in low contrast/detail areas to "bother" changing the location.

Word has it that this shaking depends on the camera angle. IF that's the case then it would have nothing to do with the avchd compression. And for the record as well... I do not see this on my Canon HF and my Sony CX
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post #454 of 1624 Old 07-01-2010, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So you have seen this prior to the 700? If it's a codec issue, it might be nothing specific to the 700.

What I'm saying is that the codec is stopping the movement on the left side due to lack of significant detail. It does not create motion where none is. I saw it before on my Canon HF100. I was recording a dragonfly sunning on a rock. There was a crevice causing a very dark shadow (E.g. - black, NO detail). My handheld shot was causing a small amount of jitter on the textured rock and dragonfly but the dark shadow stayed strangely frozen. I recognized it for what it was and it never really bothered me. It's just the price you pay for compressing the s*it out of something. The same thing is happening on the left side of my little Vimeo carpet jitter demo.
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post #455 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post

What I'm saying is that the codec is stopping the movement on the left side due to lack of significant detail. It does not create motion where none is. I saw it before on my Canon HF100. I was recording a dragonfly sunning on a rock. There was a crevice causing a very dark shadow (E.g. - black, NO detail). My handheld shot was causing a small amount of jitter on the textured rock and dragonfly but the dark shadow stayed strangely frozen. I recognized it for what it was and it never really bothered me. It's just the price you pay for compressing the s*it out of something. The same thing is happening on the left side of my little Vimeo carpet jitter demo.

I actually see jittering on the left side as well, although less than the right side. So are you saying the jittering is normal in this camcorder? I cannot say I noticed much jittering in an old Panny MiniDV. Now I seeing it almost 100% of the time when I run a slow unzoom. Odd thing is, only some objects vibrate while others are smooth. Very irritating!
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post #456 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

I actually see jittering on the left side as well, although less than the right side. So are you saying the jittering is normal in this camcorder? I cannot say I noticed much jittering in an old Panny MiniDV. Now I seeing it almost 100% of the time when I run a slow unzoom. Odd thing is, only some objects vibrate while others are smooth. Very irritating!

Hi Bowmah,
What I'm saying is that jitter is normal if caused by the camera actually moving or the object being recorded moving. No the jitter in this camera is NOT normal as neither the camera or subject is moving.
Yes, there is slight movement on the left side at the beginning but its not as severe as the right side. If the entire frame had contained high detail/high contrast then the whole frame would be moving and oscillating in complete unison. I have observed this in other tests I've done.
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post #457 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 03:00 PM
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Update to my issue:

Panasonic service center called me this evening and they told me that they have tested with some of TM-700 and HS-700. All of them are shaking! However, there is no information about this in the support knowledge base yet so it is beyond their responsibility. They've just sent this case up to Panasonic HQ in Japan. The issue was sent on Friday evening so I have to wait till next week to get the next response.

@Djizasse Nice idea! Please also update this post to your topic.
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post #458 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar_Law View Post

Please also update this post to your topic.

lazy boy
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post #459 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar_Law View Post

Update to my issue:

Panasonic service center called me this evening and they told me that they have tested with some of TM-700 and HS-700. All of them are shaking! However, there is no information about this in the support knowledge base yet so it is beyond their responsibility. They've just sent this case up to Panasonic HQ in Japan. The issue was sent on Friday evening so I have to wait till next week to get the next response.

@Djizasse Nice idea! Please also update this post to your topic.

That is good news. Glad to hear it. I guess we'll have to sit and wait for a little while to see if anything can be done about it. Keeping my fingers crossed!! Hope you'll let us know the second you hear from them.
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post #460 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post

Hi Bowmah,
What I'm saying is that jitter is normal if caused by the camera actually moving or the object being recorded moving. No the jitter in this camera is NOT normal as neither the camera or subject is moving.
Yes, there is slight movement on the left side at the beginning but its not as severe as the right side. If the entire frame had contained high detail/high contrast then the whole frame would be moving and oscillating in complete unison. I have observed this in other tests I've done.

I see, objects moving can cause jitter as well? That is exactly what I can seeing when I unzoom in the slowest setting. Some objects jitter and some do not on the same screen. Do you also see this on your 700 unzoom footages? I don't see the issue while panning but maybe it's more difficult to judge during pans.

Wow, Panasonic did not know of this jitter issue? Sure doesn't sound good.
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post #461 of 1624 Old 07-02-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

...Wow, Panasonic did not know of this jitter issue? Sure doesn't sound good.

Better than if they did know, and just shipped it anyway... If they manage to come up with a fix, that would be great!
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post #462 of 1624 Old 07-03-2010, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar_Law View Post

Update to my issue:

Panasonic service center called me this evening and they told me that they have tested with some of TM-700 and HS-700. All of them are shaking! However, there is no information about this in the support knowledge base yet so it is beyond their responsibility. They've just sent this case up to Panasonic HQ in Japan. The issue was sent on Friday evening so I have to wait till next week to get the next response.

This is good news, as at least this is starting to progress through the "official channels".
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post #463 of 1624 Old 07-03-2010, 01:17 AM
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Here is one more info regarding 50p/60p playback.

I've gone to VLC forum regarding something else, but I've noticed someone asking about the 60p playback, so I've joined the thread. Soon after, I've noticed another post, and I think I've got VLC playing 60p files just fine - in software mode!

Here is the post with the instructions, please try it if you can, and report here if it works for you: http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic....259479#p259479

Now another thing regarding VLC. You've heared that VLC added hardware decoding, but only on nVidia cards. Well, now it's working on ATI as well, we'll just have to wait for updated app+driver, but it works with their beta, read:
Quote:


VLC 1.1.0 and GPU decoding on ATI
2010-07-02The latest released version of VLC, 1.1.0, that was out a week ago, and has been downloaded half-a-dozen millions times so far, has added GPU acceleration for HD decoding under Linux and Windows. On Windows, as already stated, the code isn't working correctly with AMD Radeon cards.
Therefore, we have been working with AMD on this topic and after common work, we are going to release a new version of VLC, versionned as 1.1.1, that will work with the upcoming ATI Catalyst 10.7 driver. AMD did provide us a beta of this driver and we have verified successfully that GPU acceleration works.
Thanks for your understanding and your support.

Source:
http://www.videolan.org/news.html
Also:
http://twitter.com/CatalystMaker/status/17594903967

I've sent a post in forum regarding testers they need, so if they send me v.1.1.1 beta I'll notify you all right away!
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post #464 of 1624 Old 07-03-2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

Here is one more info regarding 50p/60p playback.

Thanks for the post. Not long time ago you advised to use Splash lite to improve 50\\60p playback on slow PCs. It helped me on my 4-years old core 2 duo 2,13GHz PC. But sometime (on quick moving scenes) the sound was interrupted for a half of sec.

I have found another solution that helped me completely.
This is a CoreAVC Pro edition 2.0 + Multimedia PlayerClassic Home Cinema v.1.3.1774.0.
This bunch of codec and player works very good for my old PC. 50p Video works smoothly without any issues.
See an attached jpg.file with options for CoreAVC that I have installed on my machine for 1080p playback.

MYG
LL
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post #465 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 01:51 AM
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Thanks.. maybe someone will be interested but:
a) no trial
b) payed codec
c) CUDA only

So, I should gamble if it will work smoothly without nVidia card (I've got ATI), and give them my money. Not gonna happen. My cam still isn't here, so I've got time to wait for either new Splash + Catalyst 10.7, or VLC 1.1.1 + Cat 10.7, or whatever else happens in the meantime.

I'm starting to think about getting a cheap nVidia card as a second card, just for these CUDA enabled apps :P Naaah! :P
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post #466 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

Thanks.. maybe someone will be interested but:
a) no trial
b) payed codec
c) CUDA only

So, I should gamble if it will work smoothly without nVidia card (I've got ATI), and give them my money. Not gonna happen. My cam still isn't here, so I've got time to wait for either new Splash + Catalyst 10.7, or VLC 1.1.1 + Cat 10.7, or whatever else happens in the meantime.

I'm starting to think about getting a cheap nVidia card as a second card, just for these CUDA enabled apps :P Naaah! :P

Hi,

a) and b) - You are correct, but 12$ is not a round sum.

c) You are not correct there, see an attached screenshot from my previous post ("Prefer CUDA acceleration" option is unchecked there).

Also, see an answer of CoreAVC programmer from the CoreAVC member forum (original post there: http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3835):

Question: Hi there! I have a problem with CoreAVC when it comes to playing back 1080p footage at 50 FPS (double PAL framerate) when using CUDA. Without CUDA they work fine, but CPU usage is through the roof. This problem occurs no matter which video player I use (Media Player Classic Home Cinema, BSPlayer, etc). Is there some known issue with non standard framerates and GPU video decoding?
My system specs:
Core 2 Duo E7200 OC @ 3.6 GHz
4 GB DDR2
nVidia 8800 GT 512 MB
Windows 7 x64 Ultimate Edition
Thanks !
PS: Love the CoreCodec, for me it's the best in the world... one thing though, maybe (for the future) ATI Stream GPU decoding could be supported. It's a shame that GPU decoding is only limited to nvidia cards...


ANSWER: Hardware decoding typically can't handle 1080p@50fps and above. Despite what you may have heard, CPU decoding is always faster on current CPUs.

MYG
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post #467 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 01:07 PM
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Hello All

Looking through the TM700 manual, this thread, the internet, can't see how to set video file names to be named sequentially. For me, after a new card is inserted or internal memory formatted, the numbers start over again at 00000.mts, etc. Now I have a lot of files named 00000, and I can get a lot of duplicate file names even in the same session if I use internal and external memory. This can be confusing for workflow. Does anybody know if setting retaining and incrementing video file names is possible? Thanks much.

-Keith
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post #468 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

Thanks.. maybe someone will be interested but:
a) no trial

I have just found another solution:

From CoreCodec site:

If you are not satisfied with any CoreCodec software purchased directly from CoreCodec, Inc., contact us within 30 days of your purchase to receive a refund. Refunds requested more than 30 days after your initial purchase date will not be issued unless the transaction was subject to a fraudulent purchase.
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post #469 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 02:31 PM
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Hi guys. I have been looking at a TM700 for some time and am ready to pull the trigger. That being said, I want to order an external microphone at the same time that I order the camera. I will be doing some instructional videos where I will be standing 12-15 feet from the camera, and wanted either a quality shotgun type of mic or perhaps a wireless lavalier mic. I was hoping some of you existing owners could tell me what you use. If you think the built in microphone is so good that I would not need such a microphone, please feel free to chime in. I am looking to order the TM700 on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Owners - thanks in advance for all your wonderful help!

Bill
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post #470 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmaki View Post

Hi guys. I have been looking at a TM700 for some time and am ready to pull the trigger. That being said, I want to order an external microphone at the same time that I order the camera. I will be doing some instructional videos where I will be standing 12-15 feet from the camera, and wanted either a quality shotgun type of mic or perhaps a wireless lavalier mic. I was hoping some of you existing owners could tell me what you use. If you think the built in microphone is so good that I would not need such a microphone, please feel free to chime in. I am looking to order the TM700 on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Owners - thanks in advance for all your wonderful help!

Bill

Check out the wireless Azden WMS-Pro on ebay. Here is a great review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlhDGrw_eA

Just be sure to use a mono to stereo adapter with this setup as the wireless mic is mono. Watch the video.
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post #471 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 05:02 PM
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I'm shooting at HA (1080i 17Mbps) and the image looks great, but I see too much color saturation especially on the reds. Any suggestions?

Also, because of resolution limitations on my plasma (which I use as monitor) I can use the included software so how do I play all clip continuously without having to use an editing software? Any other player you can suggest?
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post #472 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 09:01 PM
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As a followup to the last post, I have stumbled into the Rode VideoMic and am fairly impressed on paper. One issue though, it is supposed to mount directly on the hotshoe. Isn't the hotshoe on the TM700 on the side of the camera? How does one mount the microphone? Perhaps there is an adapter (hopefully that comes with the camera) to allow for such mountings?

Thanks owners,
Bill
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post #473 of 1624 Old 07-04-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmaki View Post

As a followup to the last post, I have stumbled into the Rode VideoMic and am fairly impressed on paper. One issue though, it is supposed to mount directly on the hotshoe. Isn't the hotshoe on the TM700 on the side of the camera? How does one mount the microphone? Perhaps there is an adapter (hopefully that comes with the camera) to allow for such mountings?

Thanks owners,
Bill

There's a compartment on the right side that reveals a small hot-shoe like shoe that a supplied adapter fits into, providing a real cold shoe. I think it's kind of kludgey, but it will get you something you can mount your videomic onto (videomic is a pretty good unit, I have one).
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post #474 of 1624 Old 07-05-2010, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myg View Post

Hi,

a) and b) - You are correct, but 12$ is not a round sum.

c) You are not correct there, see an attached screenshot from my previous post ("Prefer CUDA acceleration" option is unchecked there).

Also, see an answer of CoreAVC programmer from the CoreAVC member forum (original post there: http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3835):

Question: [i]Hi there!
ANSWER: Hardware decoding typically can't handle 1080p@50fps and above. Despite what you may have heard, CPU decoding is always faster on current CPUs.

MYG

Quote:
Originally Posted by myg View Post

I have just found another solution:

From CoreCodec site:

If you are not satisfied with any CoreCodec software purchased directly from CoreCodec, Inc., contact us within 30 days of your purchase to receive a refund. Refunds requested more than 30 days after your initial purchase date will not be issued unless the transaction was subject to a fraudulent purchase.

Thanks for providing more info.. And I haven't noticed that CUDA was unchecked, sorry! I just saw they support CUDA-only on their website. And for CPU-only playback I can use free Splash Lite. That's why I thought that you were using GPU accelerated playback.

But I'll keep it on my mind when my cam arrives. If I'll have issues with other solutions, I'll give it a try. And I know it's just 12$, and though supporting developers is good thing to do, I see no reason to pay if a free alternative exists as well Using free product is a support to that developer as well - in a way
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post #475 of 1624 Old 07-05-2010, 07:21 AM
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I think this has been discussed several times, but now I have the same issue.

I used the included software, HD Writer, to join all clips in the process making a 1 hr 23 min. home movie. But after 6+ hours of saving it saved the movie into three 4 GB files (formatted to NTFS too). This sucks because it still forces me to only watch 35 min at a time to then start the other 35 min. movie? I was really hoping to have one continuous movie no matter how long on Windows Media Center, which I use for all our family movie and pictures.

This is in addition to the color saturation especially in day light (too green & too red)

Any advice or suggestions would greatly appreciated!
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post #476 of 1624 Old 07-05-2010, 05:55 PM
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Hey, does anyone have Premiere Pro CS5 and a GT 220 nVidia card? I have heard you can do a quick hack and get GPU acceleration so Premiere Pro can playabck HD files smoothly during post processing. Anyone have this combination?
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post #477 of 1624 Old 07-05-2010, 11:43 PM
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Since Amazon just dropped the price to $735.95, anyone care to say what the corporate perks price is right now?

It was $750 when when the camcorder first released for $1,000.
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post #478 of 1624 Old 07-06-2010, 01:03 AM
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I would like to know if Western Digital My Passport AV Portable Media Drives
320 GB, USB interface ( http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=805 ) can be used to transfer video from internal/external memory TM700 directly to My Passport?
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post #479 of 1624 Old 07-06-2010, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janico View Post

I would like to know if Western Digital My Passport AV Portable Media Drives
320 GB, USB interface ( http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=805 ) can be used to transfer video from internal/external memory TM700 directly to My Passport?

No. The USB connection is only used to connect to the computer.
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post #480 of 1624 Old 07-06-2010, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Since Amazon just dropped the price to $735.95, anyone care to say what the corporate perks price is right now?

It was $750 when when the camcorder first released for $1,000.

It was still 750$ on corp perks 2 weeks ago, and it wasn't available, said that estimated availability will be 4 weeks.. so it still isn't available by that info.
I bought it on B&H (link to product) and I got it cheaper than both Amazon and Corporate perks. So look there as well.. Haven't checked the price, got to login and all that Lazy EDIT: Ok, ok 755,99$ .. But you have to include the shipping & taxes. I got it without taxes and cheap shipping, so it was muc cheaper than both on Amazon and Panasonic.com (corp perks) that calculated the taxes in the price.. US sure is weird country
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