The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1625 Old 08-10-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3hammer View Post

HDwriter is only required for any of this if you ever want to put the footage back on a card to play from the camera. IF you NEVER plan to put footage back on the TM700, HDwriter is a waste of time and rather a cludge.
Pete

I am kind of this agree with the above statement.
For person who own a weak PC like me (Core2Duo E6550), using HD writer to convert from 60p to AVCHD or AVCHD to SD or using HD writer to burn BluRay/ DVD, is much faster than doing it on PC.
So HD writer is still quite important for me.
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post #722 of 1625 Old 08-10-2010, 03:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pm dureska View Post

i am facing the same problem. i am trying to decide between the panny and sony 550v. i currently edit my panny gs500 minidv on a 2 1/2 year old imac using imovie '08 with no problems. i also have a new Win 7 quad core i7 with 8 GB ram and nvidia 1GB gtx 260 video card which i bought with thoughts toward editing if i get a new HD camera. i want to do some simple dvds, not bluray, for distribution to friends/family. usually a combo of video,photo slideshow with some music, transitions and titles. The thought of editing with new system/software is daunting. i am reading so much that this software does or does not work well or even a new computer like my win 7 may not be able to handle the editing without turning this or that on or off etc. now iread some of the owners of panny not even using 60p but shooting 60i because have not learned or "figured out" how to edit and make dvds with 60p. do you feel the 60i of sony reasonably close to panny 60i? i have looked at so many videos of both low light, bright light, fast, slow mo, fan noise, juggles, blue dots my head is swimming. too much info. Wiggles i thought i read u have a mac. do u think i could edit easily a straight forward dvd on my imac or win7 with either of these cameras using i movie or even final cut express or for my win 7 using sony vegas or some other 150 dollar or less editing program. i don't want to have to buy a new camera and a 500-1500 dollar software package to edit video. with either camera i plan on archiving the highest quality i can using sd cards since i don't shoot "tons" of video. thanks. feel free to PM me.

I considered the sony 550, the TM700, and the Canon s21. For me it was between the PAnasonic and the Canon because of the ability for manual control. The sony was out entirely because of very limited control there. I only looked at the Sony and Canon in the store, didn't shoot video with them.

I am not familiar with Vegas, but you shouldn't have any difficulty with final cut express if you simply shoot in 1080i60. Vegas is robust and should also be not an issue. I use Final Cut Pro, and if you shoot 1080i60 it is very straightforward. Express should be comparable AFAIK. I haven't used iMovie in a very long time, but I presume it would also be straightforward with 1080i60, but obviously a limited program, and in my understanding iMovie does support 1080i content. I'm not sure how thorough that support is, that exceeds the realm of my experience, so you should check with apple they have lots of into on their support site.

If you are shooting for DVD videos, which is inherently 480i60, then it would make sense just to shoot 1080i60 so all you're really doing is downscaling from HD. The panasonic only shoots in 1080i60 or 1080p60, it doesn't shoot in standard definition.

I did not pay much attention to Standard def capabilities on the cameras, but I thought the sony did have a standard definition mode, while the Canon and Panasonic did not.
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post #723 of 1625 Old 08-10-2010, 05:49 PM
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Many thanks to LuxZg, Wiggles and the rest of you for your input.
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post #724 of 1625 Old 08-10-2010, 05:58 PM
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Anyone upload raw TM700 1080p60 videos to youtube in the last few day ? All of my youtube 1080p60 videos are corrupt in both video and sound. Vimeo does not have the same issues with the same video.



http://vimeo.com/13983243

http://www.google.com/support/forum/...048c8ea1f0c5a8
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post #725 of 1625 Old 08-10-2010, 06:14 PM
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Yes, there are a lot of issues with youtube and raw hd files. Go over to the other big tm700 thread for some links to youtube support. The vimeo vid looks great. I uploaded using Handbrake which worked but I don't know if the quality is comparable.
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post #726 of 1625 Old 08-10-2010, 06:54 PM
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For three months straight I had no problems with raw TM 700 1080p60 video uploads then in the last week youtube went brain dead.
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post #727 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 05:33 AM
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Is anyone going to do this tonight. If so, what settings are you going to try. I will try manual with the scene mode called "Night Scenery". Should the focus be manual? Or should I consider time lapse? Any opinions would be appreciated.
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post #728 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 05:59 AM
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After testing out the camera indoors and outdoors, I decided to film in 1080p60. The quality is near flawless compared to 1080i60. I am willing to have an extra step in my work flow to maintain a top quality version of what I am filming.
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post #729 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papawupa View Post

Is anyone going to do this tonight. If so, what settings are you going to try. I will try manual with the scene mode called "Night Scenery". Should the focus be manual? Or should I consider time lapse? Any opinions would be appreciated.

Look at the following videos:
http://vimeo.com/6686768
http://vimeo.com/4038064
http://vimeo.com/4038064
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post #730 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 07:45 AM
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Thanks jogiba---Any specific recomendations on using the tm700 without time lapse? Settings and focus specific to the meteor shower?
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post #731 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 10:14 AM
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Thanks for all the great info! I have already used AE to preserve my treasured memories to disk.
Did I loose 60p?
Can they be changed back from M2TS to MTS? How?
I'm considering an HDTV and a Blu-ray player which each have an SD slot, and networking, for playing my movies. Do I have to change back from M2TS to MTS?
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post #732 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 10:55 AM
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For those who want a simple means of converting and burning 1080p60fps TM700 files onto playable discs I can wholeheartedly recommend the Panasonic VW-BN2 standalone burner designed for the TM700.

You connect it directly to the the TM700 and select files to burn on a standard DVD in either AVCHD or DVD format and down conversion takes place in the camera.
The resulting disc takes about 10 to 30 minutes and can be played in any Bluray player.
The results are excellent. If you have any prior experience with a Panasonic dvd recorder then the disc menu will be quite familiar to you.

Inexpensive and highly recommended!

Robert Clark
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post #733 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 11:26 AM
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Will the Panasonic VW-BN2 burn a disk that preserves the original 1080p/60p format?
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post #734 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSWatcher View Post

Will the Panasonic VW-BN2 burn a disk that preserves the original 1080p/60p format?

No, if you author a DVD it will be in Standard Definition. You can store the 60p files on the DVD, but not play them as a "regular" DVD.
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post #735 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSWatcher View Post

Thanks for all the great info! I have already used AE to preserve my treasured memories to disk.
Did I loose 60p?
Can they be changed back from M2TS to MTS? How?
I'm considering an HDTV and a Blu-ray player which each have an SD slot, and networking, for playing my movies. Do I have to change back from M2TS to MTS?

No, you can't go back from HA (60i) to 60p. If that is what you are asking. I always shoot 60p no matter what. I store the 60p files as backup and as RAW files for my edits. It is always better to go from highest quality to lower quality, why start at HA?
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post #736 of 1625 Old 08-12-2010, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowboricua View Post


No, you can't go back from HA (60i) to 60p. If that is what you are asking. I always shoot 60p no matter what. I store the 60p files as backup and as RAW files for my edits. It is always better to go from highest quality to lower quality, why start at HA?

Most editing software will edit the m2ts files, correct? So the files hd writer imports will do as backup, or do you copy and paste directly from the camera without hd writer?
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post #737 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSWatcher View Post

Thanks for all the great info! I have already used AE to preserve my treasured memories to disk.
Did I loose 60p?
Can they be changed back from M2TS to MTS? How?
I'm considering an HDTV and a Blu-ray player which each have an SD slot, and networking, for playing my movies. Do I have to change back from M2TS to MTS?

If you just did a "simple copy" with HD Writer AE supplied with TM700 - no, you did not lose your 60p videos. If you did a conversion with it, than yes you did. Depends on what you did.

Going from MTS to M2TS and back isn't important. Your video and audio don't change, this is only container (digital "box" of sorts) in which your video and audio data reside. Players and editing software usually support both types of containers (MTS & M2TS).
If you're buying HDTV and/or BluRay player for these files, I'd recommend buying one of Panasonic's own models which are confirmed to support 60p playback of raw files from TM700..

Quote:
Originally Posted by keytrnr View Post

Most editing software will edit the m2ts files, correct? So the files hd writer imports will do as backup, or do you copy and paste directly from the camera without hd writer?

Yes, most editing and playback software don't make much difference between MTS and M2TS. Read above. It's also pretty much same if you do a manual backup (copying from cam's memory or from SD card in anyway), or HD Writer as a tool. You can always go back and forth between these formats, as long as you preserve all files that such copy/backup process created.
But I believe it's faster to just open cam's memory (shown as USB storage device), and manually copy DCIM and AVCHD folders.
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post #738 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post


If you just did a "simple copy" with HD Writer AE supplied with TM700 - no, you did not lose your 60p videos. If you did a conversion with it, than yes you did. Depends on what you did.

Going from MTS to M2TS and back isn't important. Your video and audio don't change, this is only container (digital "box" of sorts) in which your video and audio data reside. Players and editing software usually support both types of containers (MTS & M2TS).
If you're buying HDTV and/or BluRay player for these files, I'd recommend buying one of Panasonic's own models which are confirmed to support 60p playback of raw files from TM700..

Yes, most editing and playback software don't make much difference between MTS and M2TS. Read above. It's also pretty much same if you do a manual backup (copying from cam's memory or from SD card in anyway), or HD Writer as a tool. You can always go back and forth between these formats, as long as you preserve all files that such copy/backup process created.
But I believe it's faster to just open cam's memory (shown as USB storage device), and manually copy DCIM and AVCHD folders.

But if you transfer with hd writer don't you lose the ability to put the video back on the camera with it changing to m2ts? And without m2ts you can't use with hd writer?
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post #739 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by keytrnr View Post

But if you transfer with hd writer don't you lose the ability to put the video back on the camera with it changing to m2ts? And without m2ts you can't use with hd writer?

Have you tried this?
1. Insert SD Card to your camcoder
2. Connect camcorder to PC using USB then run HD writer in your PC
3. click "Copy to Media"
4. choose "video camera"
5. Choose "High definition Video"
6. do yo want to append to SD card : "YES"
7. pick the M2TS clips that you want to transfer back to SD card in your camcorder.
8. click next and you should be able to copy M2TS back as MTS files to SD Card
9. unplug the USB cable.
10. in your camcorder menu, choose "Copy SD Card to cam's Flash memory".
11. your M2TS file is now back safely in your cam's flash memory as MTS file.
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post #740 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by janico View Post


Have you tried this?
1. Insert SD Card to your camcoder
2. Connect camcorder to PC using USB then run HD writer in your PC
3. click "Copy to Media"
4. choose "video camera"
5. Choose "High definition Video"
6. do yo want to append to SD card : "YES"
7. pick the clips that you want to transfer back to SD card in your camcorder.
8. click next and you should be able to copy M2TS back to SD Card
9. unplug the USB cable.
10. in your camcorder menu, choose Copy SD Card to Flash memory.
11. Your M2TS file is now back safely in your flas memory as MTS file.

Nope, I don't have a memory card, so far I've only recorded to internal memory. Thanks for the tip. I suppose this won't work the same to copy back to internal memory instead?
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post #741 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by keytrnr View Post

Nope, I don't have a memory card, so far I've only recorded to internal memory. Thanks for the tip. I suppose this won't work the same to copy back to internal memory instead?

You need a SD card to do above trick.

The reason is that when you connect the camcorder to PC using USB then run HD writer in your PC and you click "Copy to Media", there is no option to copy directly to internal memory.

In my case, the choice is limited to :
1. copy to DVD burner or
2. video camera (which is your SD card in your camcorder)

Quote:


Posted by LuxZg :
I believe it's faster to just open cam's memory (shown as USB storage device), and manually copy DCIM and AVCHD folders.

Maybe above trick also can work, but since HD writer can also do the tasks, I personally prefer using HD writer to do "copy to PC" and "copy to media" instead of using direct copy and paste methods.

By the way, just now I also successfully transferred my edited 1080p60 video back to camcorder for playback.
I did all the basic editing using HD writer, such as adding title, join clips, cutting clips then I used "copy to media" to transfer the video back to camcorder, and playback as it was shot originally using camera.
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post #742 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowboricua View Post

No, if you author a DVD it will be in Standard Definition. You can store the 60p files on the DVD, but not play them as a "regular" DVD.

This is not correct. You can create a standard definition DVD using the VW-BN2 but you can also create an avchd disc with your choice of four levels of bitrate converted in the camera. The resulting disc is playable on any bluray player.

You cannot store raw 60p files on the disc via the VW-BN2.

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post #743 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 11:51 AM
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@keytrnr - if you want to send video back to camcorder you'll always need SD card, as you can't write to cam's memory from PC. Cam's memory is "read only" and you can't rename, delete or add anything on it. So except for use of different tools and general workflow - it doesn't matter if you've got MTS or M2TS files backed up on your PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janico View Post

Maybe above trick also can work, but since HD writer can also do the tasks, I personally prefer using HD writer to do "copy to PC" and "copy to media" instead of using direct copy and paste methods.

By the way, just now I also successfully transferred my edited 1080p60 video back to camcorder for playback.
I did all the basic editing using HD writer, such as adding title, join clips, cutting clips then I used "copy to media" to transfer the video back to camcorder, and playback as it was shot originally using camera.

I'm sure it will work, and I'm glad you've tried it all and confirmed that it's trouble-free. I'm just talking from a different standpoint, of someone who maybe doesn't want to use Panasonic's bundled HD Writer at all. For those folks, copy/paste will work just as well.
Also, when I said faster, I didn't just mean "less tools and less clicks", I meant that simple copy in let's say Windows Explorer will be faster than backing up through HD Writer. Not sure why, but probably because there is zero processing of files, just copy..

What is most important point that I believe two of us will certainly agree upon is - it doesn't matter how you back up your files (manually or with HD Writer AE) - you can do whatever you want with these files later on, including sending back to camcorder, playing back from it, etc. Sometimes one way will be faster, sometimes it will be the other.. I'm ok with both
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post #744 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 12:08 PM
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So then there's no need to keep anything except for one 1080p video file then. A lot of posts were earlier talking about keeping mts files for playing back through camcorder. If either will work then the only duplicate needed would be a conversion of 1080i if you want to put on a bluray.
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post #745 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

Cam's memory is "read only" and you can't rename, delete or add anything on it.

Hi LuxZg
I am a bit curious, when you said cam's flash memory is read only, why if you used the menu "COPY" inside the camcorder, you can transfer files vv flash to SD or SD to flash?
Maybe it is "read only" when you use PC to access it. But if you edit/copy/delete using the camcorder, it will not be a problem.

Quote:


What is most important point that I believe two of us will certainly agree upon is - it doesn't matter how you back up your files (manually or with HD Writer AE) - you can do whatever you want with these files later on, including sending back to camcorder, playing back from it, etc. Sometimes one way will be faster, sometimes it will be the other.. I'm ok with both

Yup I am totally agreed with you. Either way it should work.



Quote:


Posted by keytrnr :
So then there's no need to keep anything except for one 1080p video file then. A lot of posts were earlier talking about keeping mts files for playing back through camcorder. If either will work then the only duplicate needed would be a conversion of 1080i if you want to put on a bluray.

Yup, you only need to keep 1 set of 1080p MTS files (using windows explorer copy and paste) or to keep 1 set of 1080p M2TS files (using HD writer).

To keep 1 set of M2TS files using HD writer:
First of all, connect PC to Cams using USB, then you just transfer 1080p60 clips to your PC using HD writer by selecting "COPY TO PC".
For each clip, HD writer will create 1 set of files *.M2TS file and 3 other files in your PC (*.cont, *.pmpd, *.tmb.).
Keep safely those 4 files. Later you will need that 1 set of files to be able to put the M2TS back to camcorder.
After that, disconnect USB, then you can delete original video file in your camcorder.


Later on if you want to do AVCHD/1080i conversion, just connect your camcorder to your PC using USB, and use HD writer as a software to do the conversion :
1. clicking HD writer on your PC,
2. select Tools - Movie - Format conversion, select 1080p to AVCHD or AVCHD to SD
3. select the clips to convert
4. select to convert in same folder or different folder and don't forget to click "setting" at the bottom in order to select HD writer to use camcorder as a hardware to do the task by selecting an option called " Use the conversion assist function of the video camera" (converting in this way is much..much...faster)
Hope you understand my english. It is a bit hard to explain it.

Also I want to clarify my statement :
Once you transfer you files back from PC to SD card using HD writer, the M2TS file already change back to MTS file and you can play it back as it is an original 1080p60 file.
So there is no actual need to transfer it back to cam's flash memory for playback. But if you prefer to play it back in the flash memory, you also have an option using camcorder "COPY" menu.
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post #746 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 10:20 PM
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Couldn't have said it better! Thanks Janico, where are you located? I guess I need to get an SDHC card then and keep only the M2TS files. Thanks.
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post #747 of 1625 Old 08-13-2010, 11:20 PM
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Maybe this has already been mentioned, but when connecting the camera to do conversion of 1080p60 to 1080i, does it keep the 1080p60 file and make a separate 1080i file, or do I need to make a 1080p backup first?
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post #748 of 1625 Old 08-14-2010, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keytrnr View Post

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but when connecting the camera to do conversion of 1080p60 to 1080i, does it keep the 1080p60 file and make a separate 1080i file, or do I need to make a 1080p backup first?

Yes, it will keep your 1080p safely. So basically after doing the conversion, you will have 2 separate set of files. 1 set is 1080p and other is AVCDH/1080i.
No need to make backup since the conversion will not replace the original files.
Anyway HD writer will ask you where to put the 1080i files. So if you worried, just make it in a separate folder from your original.

I live in Java province - Indonesia. Maybe you know Bali, Bali is one of the provinces in Indonesia .
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post #749 of 1625 Old 08-14-2010, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keytrnr View Post

So then there's no need to keep anything except for one 1080p video file then. A lot of posts were earlier talking about keeping mts files for playing back through camcorder. If either will work then the only duplicate needed would be a conversion of 1080i if you want to put on a bluray.

Correct. Keep either M2TS (with those small files that are created), or MTS (with all those files/folders that are on camera). No need to keep both, if they are both in 60p. janico explained it perfectly

Quote:
Originally Posted by janico View Post

Hi LuxZg
I am a bit curious, when you said cam's flash memory is read only, why if you used the menu "COPY" inside the camcorder, you can transfer files vv flash to SD or SD to flash? Maybe it is "read only" when you use PC to access it. But if you edit/copy/delete using the camcorder, it will not be a problem

If you read again, you will see I wrote "you can't write to cam's memory from PC" just before I started writing that you "can't rename, delete or add" .. so yes, I was thinking about accessing from PC, just didn't see the point in repeating the "from PC" one sentence after the other

The point is, and that's the answer I gave to keytrnr - if you backup files from cam's internal memory to PC, and erase cam's memory, than there is no way to get files from PC back on camera unless using SD card. Once he buys SD card, he can do it either the way you described (HD Writer -> Copy to media) or the way I described a while ago (create "PERSONAL" folder manually, and copying folders with MTS files).. all depending on how he got the files from camera to PC in the first place. If he copied cam->PC with HD Writer he can copy PC->cam using HD Writer. If he copied cam->PC manually, than he can copy PC->cam manually as well. Oh, and keytrnr, I'm guessing you're "he", sorry if I made a mistake perhaps
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post #750 of 1625 Old 08-14-2010, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

If you read again, you will see I wrote "you can't write to cam's memory from PC" just before I started writing that you "can't rename, delete or add" .. so yes, I was thinking about accessing from PC, just didn't see the point in repeating the "from PC" one sentence after the other

Ahh... silly of me..
I am sorry LuxZg for misunderstanding your statement.

Hope keytrnr will be much clearer now..
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