The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - Page 36 - AVS Forum
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post #1051 of 1624 Old 11-25-2010, 02:11 PM
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Paulo, good advise, I'll try to use the 2 code pass, that was not previously enables. Any reason why the vimeo clip whould look SO much sharper than the Youtube video, where others are getting great results from Youtube?

As for the timeline, the only 60p available is 1080*720, is this the correct setting?
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post #1052 of 1624 Old 11-25-2010, 02:36 PM
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If your exporting to 720 60p than that's fine.

If you just want good quality 720p playback on Vimeo, you should use a bit rate of around 7-9Mbps and a frame rate of 29.97p. You can obviously get away with 5 and the video can still look good but that's if everything was shot carefully. Now if your trying to export to 720 60p like if you want the people to have good quality looking downloads, you should export to around 17bps, again using 2 pass encode.
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post #1053 of 1624 Old 11-25-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

This is just a load of BS. If you cannot tune up your PC, it is your problem, not somebody else's, so stop spreading FUD.

-----------------------
Well there is some truth in Sara's comment ;

there is some rational problem : Such a small cam that can deal with 1080p 60 at 28Mbs to compare with much bigger and powerfull PC with recent Graphical cards is somehow difficult to understand (unless panasonic will come up with something in a second stage like for instance a player that can correctly streem edited files from ann internal/external hard drive (without need for a PC) like an upgrade of their BR (BDP80 ) that reads those files from a memory sd card.
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post #1054 of 1624 Old 11-25-2010, 04:44 PM
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Hi all,
just finished my first 1.5 hours movie out of 5 hours TM700 50p native clips which were in the selection for editing out of 10 hours recording.
Shooting in sometimes cold and harsh situations in the Himalaya on long journies.
Edited with PPro CS5 on a workstation (Win 7, i7 930, 2.8 Ghz / 12 GB Ram / 10'000 Rpm System drive / 7'000 Rpm Scratch drive / 7'000 Rpm Project drive 7'000 Rpm Output drive / Quadro FX 3800).

To be sure to get a final result (which I had to deliver in time) I edited the first cuts in 7 different projects. After that I imported those 7 first projects into a new one and did the audio and finally filters (mainly gamma correction, Mercalli, Magic Bullet). All done with native 1080/50p clips. Loading the huge project takes time and switching back to Premiere out of other programms takes time. But still editing was most times smooth, few times little stuttering, not surprising...
I thougt to get into real trouble with that much load.

Rendering the final movie wich has Magic Bullet filter & vignette on the full time took about 7.5 hours for a 1080 25p output.
The result makes me smile...

(Before doing the final work I rendered the movie for tests into several different formats such as H.264 1080/50p, H.264 1080/50i, H.264 720/50p, MPEG 2 /50 Mb, AVI: All fine. Only .wmv had playback problems toward the end of the rendered movie. If I just played the movie without interruption it was all fine. But if I wanted to play it from 1:15 h onward Windows Media Player gave me an error message saying that the file was not playable. No problem jumping around up to 1:15, no problem playing the full movie, just pause and restart after 1:15 or switch to somewhere later wasn't possible.

After using the cam almost half a year, 3 months in high altitudes up to 5500 meter over sea level; cold & dusty and sometimes hot & humid climate conditions I'm fully satisfied with the decision to invest a lot of money into this cam & accessoir and necessarily also into according PC Hard- and Software.
Great, it works till the high end!
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post #1055 of 1624 Old 11-25-2010, 05:08 PM
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Hello Fellow TM700 Owners,

I've had the TM700 a couple of weeks now and have been trying to work out a workflow. I'll try not to bore you. But I do have a problem that I hope someone can help me with.

My workflow is to shoot everything in 1080p60, convert everything in-camera to 1080i60 (HA), archive the 1080p for future use, and use the 1080i for editing and sharing via DVD and internet.

Here's the problem: whenever I do the copy/conversion in camera--which is from the internal memory to an SDHC card--the clips on the internal memory become unrecognizable by the camera and it reports "NO DATA." The first time this happened I thought it had deleted everything from the internal memory and that I had lost the 1080p footage for good. However, when I plugged the camera into my Mac, it showed all the files still intact, so I made a disk image of it while the going was good.

Any idea why this would happen? It's not supposed to, according to user reports on this and other forums. My SDHC card is a Transcend Class 6 at 16GB.

This happens no matter how many clips I copy/convert--even if I only do one. It seems like the file structure or something gets corrupted and makes it temporarily unreadable. If I shoot a short clip in 1080p after the conversion, it makes all the other clips readable again! Weird.

If anyone can give me any pointers I'd appreciate it. Or should I just contact Panasonic and see what they say?
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post #1056 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC View Post

Hello Fellow TM700 Owners,

I've had the TM700 a couple of weeks now and have been trying to work out a workflow. I'll try not to bore you. But I do have a problem that I hope someone can help me with.

My workflow is to shoot everything in 1080p60, convert everything in-camera to 1080i60 (HA), archive the 1080p for future use, and use the 1080i for editing and sharing via DVD and internet.

Here's the problem: whenever I do the copy/conversion in camera--which is from the internal memory to an SDHC card--the clips on the internal memory become unrecognizable by the camera and it reports "NO DATA." The first time this happened I thought it had deleted everything from the internal memory and that I had lost the 1080p footage for good. However, when I plugged the camera into my Mac, it showed all the files still intact, so I made a disk image of it while the going was good.

Any idea why this would happen? It's not supposed to, according to user reports on this and other forums. My SDHC card is a Transcend Class 6 at 16GB.

This happens no matter how many clips I copy/convert--even if I only do one. It seems like the file structure or something gets corrupted and makes it temporarily unreadable. If I shoot a short clip in 1080p after the conversion, it makes all the other clips readable again! Weird.

If anyone can give me any pointers I'd appreciate it. Or should I just contact Panasonic and see what they say?

My workflow is exactly the same as yours! But I'm using a Lexar 32 Gig SDHC card. One thing you could try is to format the SD card in camera (if you didn't do so already)?
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post #1057 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 01:18 AM
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alainhubert,

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I actually format both the internal memory and the SD card regularly.
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post #1058 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toni1 View Post

-----------------------
Well there is some truth in Sara's comment ;

there is some rational problem : Such a small cam that can deal with 1080p 60 at 28Mbs to compare with much bigger and powerfull PC with recent Graphical cards is somehow difficult to understand (unless panasonic will come up with something in a second stage like for instance a player that can correctly streem edited files from ann internal/external hard drive (without need for a PC) like an upgrade of their BR (BDP80 ) that reads those files from a memory sd card.

The camcorder is obviously optimised to play those 1080 60p files properly and even a cheap computer can be optimised to play the files. On my 2 year old 2.4Ghz laptop with a Core2Duo processor, I got smooth motion playing back 1080 60p using Splash or Windows Media. If you were to use VLC on that computer, the results would be completely unacceptable. Again, some people PC's are optimised differently. Also when it came to editing on Nero or Premiere CS5, the preview screen was never smooth but when I tried Video Redo, I got perfect motion in that NLE.


That post makes it sound like some of us are deliberately lying including me when it is her who is misleading people even without knowing it. Just because she 's not getting good results, everybody who are, are lying? I requested for her to post a couple of brand new native clips for me to use them in a demonstration to prove it but she never did. Why didn't she?

I try to help people as much as I can when it comes to playback issues. The same thing happened when HDV first came out and then AVCHD, I mean I still remember when people used to complain about the playback issues when the HC1 was still very popular and I also tried to help as much as I could back then. I do wish we didn't have as much issues with people who have decent machines.

For HDV, I used to recommend DivX and then when AVCHD came out I used to recommend CoreAVC. This remind me that people should try CoreAVC and see if it will help.
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post #1059 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 09:59 AM
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I try to help people as much as I can when it comes to playback issues. The same thing happened when HDV first came out and then AVCHD, I mean I still remember when people used to complain about the playback issues when the HC1 was still very popular and I also tried to help as much as I could back then. I do wish we didn't have as much issues with people who have decent machines.

For HDV, I used to recommend DivX and then when AVCHD came out I used to recommend CoreAVC. This remind me that people should try CoreAVC and see if it will help.[/quote]
-------------------
I also still have my HC1 that I replaced with pana sd700 (3cdd was one reason). I remeber the help I got while participating in Ulead VideoStudio forum and remeber very well this DivX way to deal with HDV on the unofficial tutorial. Well its nice to talk to persons who have the passion and curiosity you have. Thanks
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post #1060 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 10:51 AM
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Yeh getting the HC1 was a dream. I bought it in the summer of 2005 to take with me to the Azores. I previously owned the Panasonic DV953 and have wanted to get the GS400 but I told myself to think of the future. I may be spending around $500 more but will I feel good about that decision in the future? Plus you had people saying it's too early for HD but I'm glad about the decision I finally made. What's unfortunate is that in the summer of 2004, I lost the DV953 so I only had it for about a year and their was a tape with it that to this day I wish I can get it back. If I did not loose that camcorder, I wouldn't have bought the HC1. I also had an older 1 chip JVC Mini DV camera but I told myself theirs no way I'm sending that to the Azores and have the same quality that I had the last time I went to the Azores.

The big headache came when it was time to play that back on my computer and I started looking everywhere for a solution including the best ways to optimise my computer until I hit the jackpot. I downloaded DivX and my motion became 100% smooth! By that time, I figured I need to spread the word and every time somebody mentions playback issues, I would always respond by insisting that they should download DivX.

Once AVCHD came out, CoreAVC and Nero for example became the new big things. Very recently Splash gained a lot of recognition from out of nowhere. Still, one thing I've mentioned before when talking about having good 1080 60p results in my laptop was the DivX logo popping up when I played the files in Windows Media. What's ironic is that if I were to play those files in the actual DivX player instead, the results wouldn't be that good.


Basically for the people who can't get it to work in Windows Media they should make sure behind the scenes programs isn't wasting your computers resources and download Splash and experiment with hardware accelerator on and off. If the playback still isn't decent, they should download DivX and/or CoreAVC. The last option is to get a new computer with an i7 processor. With the new i7 computer that was freshly built for me, I did not have to do any optimisation at all and 1080 60p immediately plays back in Windows Media without issue. I mean it's taking up very little CPU power like I'm playing back a Mini DV file. On my laptop I may have been getting good results but it was usually hovering over 90% of my CPU's power I believe. Still, I'm more comfortable using Splash lite on my new computer.
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post #1061 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 11:11 AM
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The 6 Core AMD X6 Phenom CPU's work better than any other CPU in it's price class for video encoding and the AM3 motherboards are lower in price than the 1366 or 1156 motherboards that are used with Core i7 CPU's.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...om+II+X6+1075T
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post #1062 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 11:16 AM
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I don't think the $220 that I paid for the i7 950 processor is a bad price at all. $20 more than that AMD and more powerful I believe at least according to that chart you posted so for sure I got a good deal.



I just called Micro Center up (the place I got it from) and they told me it's on sale for $200.

They were really very good to me. Some of my computer's parts were cheaper than other retailers and for some other parts they priced matched it with both NewEgg and even Tiger Direct.
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post #1063 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 03:08 PM
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Post 1246

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...235861&page=42

If old news...disregard!
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post #1064 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 06:04 PM
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I'm still learning the TM700. Can anyone explain to me in some detail exactly what "Auto Slow Shutter" is and what it does when turned on, and help me decide whether it's something I need turned on for low light shooting inside?

Thanks in advance.
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post #1065 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC View Post
I'm still learning the TM700. Can anyone explain to me in some detail exactly what "Auto Slow Shutter" is and what it does when turned on, and help me decide whether it's something I need turned on for low light shooting inside?

Thanks in advance.
You can record bright pictures even in dark places by slowing the shutter speed.
≥ Change the mode to .
≥ Switch to Manual Mode. (l 82)
≥ The shutter speed is set to 1/30 or more depending on the surrounding brightness.

This is straight from the TM700 PPF. It basicly sets the shutter speed to 1/30 or maybe 1/60 if there's enough light.
There is also a "night scenery" mode for night recording, as well as "Color night recording". Shutter speed of 1/30 can look blury when fast moving subjects are recorded. You can set it to 1/60 and set iris to 18dB and reduce the blur. Experiment with these modes as I have been able to get great low light video and pics with this TM700.
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post #1066 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC View Post
I'm still learning the TM700. Can anyone explain to me in some detail exactly what "Auto Slow Shutter" is and what it does when turned on, and help me decide whether it's something I need turned on for low light shooting inside?

Thanks in advance.
This mode will automatically slow down the shutter speed below 1/60 of a second (1/50 for European model) to provide a longer exposure time of the sensors to light, to help the camera to avoid having to boost the gain and as such reduce the noise level in low light conditions.

It will however introduce a reduction in frame rate, visible as a little more "choppy" motion in low light conditions. If you do not foresee having to shoot in low light conditions, and you want to prevent the camcorder's shutter speed to go below 1/60 then turn this off.

The "Night Color Mode" will slow the shutter speed even more, by going as low as 1/8 and 1/4 of a second for greatly improving sensitivity in extreme low light, but the video will become extremely "choppy".
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post #1067 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by flint350 View Post
I have tried 6 and 6.01, same result. I have read of others having problems like mine and, as I said, GV suggests OS re-install, so they are aware of it. They mentioned the clashing dll's but gave no way to find them or remove them. You would think the manufacturer would know all the files installed and have a way to find/remove them.

I gave up on Edius and am happy with CS5 Pro. It has a nice export feature of a 1-click "match sequence settings" which automatically exports 1080/60p files the same way it found them. I have been considering going up to 12GB RAM from my current 6, but so far it is working well in conjunction with Cineform files and even native files.
CS5 After Effects and Sony Vegas Pro 9 and 10 can edit and render 1080 60p, with custom presets.
In Premiere, where is this "1 click match seq settings"?
I had to edit in desktop mode to work with 1080 60p in Premiere. Danny Hays
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post #1068 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 07:37 PM
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Does anyone know whether I can edit 1080 60p in Nero 10 and export to 720 60p w/ good overall quality?

I'd like to purchase somethign for editing, and am using a trial of Edius 2.5, but Edius 3 won't (new version) won't run on Vista. I get good results exporting w/ Edius.

I downloaded the trial of Nero10, but can't import my files.

Will they import w/ the full version of 10? Can they be edited? Can they be exported?

THanks in advance
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post #1069 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 07:42 PM
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The last time I used Nero was version 9 and I had no issues importing the files. I would probably ask them and see what's the story.
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post #1070 of 1624 Old 11-26-2010, 08:22 PM
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Trying to contact them...

Thanks Paulo

Anyone else using Nero Vision successfully w/ native TM700 files?
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post #1071 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:29 AM
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Thanks to Danny Hays and alainhubert for addressing my question on Auto Slow Shutter.

So do you recommend turning auto slow shutter ON in low light conditions, but leaving the camera in iA mode? Or would you always shoot in manual and adjust the shutter/iris yourself?
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post #1072 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:33 AM
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In low light situations you should always have the lens set to f/1.5 and for the shutter, either 30 or 60 depending on how clear you want the picture quality and how much motion is in the scene. A lot of motion and a shutter of 30 may not be a good idea so it all depends. Now if your shooting in 24p, a shutter of 24 is recommended although you need to realize that you need something like NeoScene to fix the 24p.
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post #1073 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC
Thanks to Danny Hays and alainhubert for addressing my question on Auto Slow Shutter.

So do you recommend turning auto slow shutter ON in low light conditions, but leaving the camera in iA mode? Or would you always shoot in manual and adjust the shutter/iris yourself?
You're welcome Ed. Personnaly, I use manual mode almost all the time. Except for the focus which is good enough to leave in auto, unless I want to do a field effect shot. Also, to add to Paulo's useful reply, if you have used the manual mode a little you'll notice that there is a quirk in the way the shutter and iris controls work. In order to have the lens open at f1.5 and lock it there, you must FIRST set the shutter speed and then adjust the iris opening manually. Otherwise, as soon as you will change shutter speed again, the iris control will return to auto by itself.
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post #1074 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 08:03 AM
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I've heard of this before and I wonder if that got carried over to the TM750/SDT750. I know that with the GH1, I have no issues at all setting the Aperture and Shutter independently. I would have been very annoyed on the first day if it was like the TM700 in which you have to set the shutter first. It's not bad if you know the right way to adjust it but for someone just starting to use the camera I can see how that can be an issue.
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post #1075 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

I've heard of this before and I wonder if that got carried over to the TM750/SDT750. I know that with the GH1, I have no issues at all setting the Aperture and Shutter independently. I would have been very annoyed on the first day if it was like the TM700 in which you have to set the shutter first. It's not bad if you know the right way to adjust it but for someone just starting to use the camera I can see how that can be an issue.

Yes, it would be interesting to know if the new models still behave like that?
One more thing, off topic but I had to mention it, is the incredible "Intelligent Contrast" feature (A.K.A. Dynamic Range Stretch in broadcast models). This can really help in difficult lighting situations, to avoid having parts of a shot overexposed, or underexposed. For example: filming a shot partly in direct sunlight an partly shadowed, like the entrance of an opened garage door where the facade is very bright and the insides very dark. Each time I use it, I'm impressed by the results. It's almost like getting the dynamic range of film. Another good example would be filming indoors, but with only sunlight coming through a window as lighting.
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post #1076 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:37 AM
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I hope you everyone doesn't mind but I have another question. In a few days I will be leaving for my native England (I now live in USA). My parents are having a 50th wedding anniversary celebration at a village hall over there with around 50 guests. Nothing flashy, just some food and fun and renewed friendships.

Anyway, I will be taking my TM700 and a tripod and external mic. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a wide angle conversion lens. If it would substantially improve the quality of footage I get from this, I'm willing to part with the $185 + shipping that this will cost in order to have good clear memories of this one-time event.

I don't really know how crowded the village hall will be or many other details, so it's hard for me to make that call at this distance. If you guys have any input on whether I should get the wide angle conversion lens or just hang on to my hard earned cash, I'd like to hear it. Here's the lens in question:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ide_Angle.html
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post #1077 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC View Post

I hope you everyone doesn't mind but I have another question. In a few days I will be leaving for my native England (I now live in USA). My parents are having a 50th wedding anniversary celebration at a village hall over there with around 50 guests. Nothing flashy, just some food and fun and renewed friendships.

Anyway, I will be taking my TM700 and a tripod and external mic. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a wide angle conversion lens. If it would substantially improve the quality of footage I get from this, I'm willing to part with the $185 + shipping that this will cost in order to have good clear memories of this one-time event.

I don't really know how crowded the village hall will be or many other details, so it's hard for me to make that call at this distance. If you guys have any input on whether I should get the wide angle conversion lens or just hang on to my hard earned cash, I'd like to hear it. Here's the lens in question:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ide_Angle.html

I don't know much about lenses on a camcorder but what about an after market lens? I found a few for around $30. It might be worth looking at, $185 seems rather steep for that lens from Panasonic.
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post #1078 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:48 AM
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Some people shoot everything with a wide angle lens on but it should sometimes depend on the lighting condition unless you really need the wide angle. Basically if you know they'll be plenty of lighting, you'll probably be happy with the extra wide look but for normal or less than ideal indoor lighting, I wouldn't recommend it since an extra layer of glass will reduce the camera's sensitivity a little bit.
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post #1079 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:50 AM
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Gary,

Yeah, that does seem like a lot of money. Which is why I've been hesitating for several days now, wondering what to do. I also looked at a Canon, but it was around $150 and most reviewers said it was heavier than the camcorder! You think the $185 is mostly just for the name and the cheaper ones might be just as good?

Thanks for the input Paulo. Again, I don't really have any knowledge of the lighting situation, etc.
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post #1080 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:51 AM
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When your adding an extra layer of glass, it's best to be careful you wont degrade the picture and I've heard horror stories from people who decided to buy cheap lenses to attach to their camera.
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