The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC View Post

Yeah, that does seem like a lot of money. Which is why I've been hesitating for several days now, wondering what to do. I also looked at a Canon, but it was around $150 and most reviewers said it was heavier than the camcorder! You think the $185 is mostly just for the name and the cheaper ones might be just as good?

I can't imagine any camcorder lens being the same quality that a SLR camera has. For $30 I would try the generic. It's not much of a risk.
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post #1082 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 11:56 AM
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Gary, do you have a link to a particular lens that would be equivalent to the one I linked?
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post #1083 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardC View Post

I hope you everyone doesn't mind but I have another question. In a few days I will be leaving for my native England (I now live in USA). My parents are having a 50th wedding anniversary celebration at a village hall over there with around 50 guests. Nothing flashy, just some food and fun and renewed friendships.

Anyway, I will be taking my TM700 and a tripod and external mic. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a wide angle conversion lens. If it would substantially improve the quality of footage I get from this, I'm willing to part with the $185 + shipping that this will cost in order to have good clear memories of this one-time event.

I don't really know how crowded the village hall will be or many other details, so it's hard for me to make that call at this distance. If you guys have any input on whether I should get the wide angle conversion lens or just hang on to my hard earned cash, I'd like to hear it. Here's the lens in question:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ide_Angle.html

I think the the wide converter lens you want for this camera is a Panasonic VW-W4607H, the link you posted is for a Panasonic TM300 which has a smaller lens. Here is the link to the Panasonic TM700 wide conversion lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...VW_W4607H.html
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post #1084 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 12:57 PM
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The lens on the TM700 is actually far more sophisticated since it's both wider and faster at the same time. Since the lens design is very different, I'd agree that's it's better to get the one made for the TM700 even though it'll cost a little more.

Getting a Panasonic lens may cost more but for sure the quality will be much, much higher than a $30 lens. Plus, obviously Panasonic designs their lenses specifically to one camcorder type.

This is sort of like why if you were to match up a computer to a game console with very similar specs, the console version of the game would look better. The game that was specifically made for the computer has to make it compatible with many different configurations unlike a game console.

Still their are companies that makes lenses that look good on any camcorder but they also cost a lot like this one for example.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ide_Angle.html
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post #1085 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 01:16 PM
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I agree with the idea of getting a high quality lens for the TM 700. I still have an add-on wide angle lens from 20 years ago, that was made specifically for video cameras. And back then it cost me $200 (in 1990), so it was a lens of reasonable quality. But when I put this in front of the TM700 (it has the same 46mm diameter), it cuts the corners and displays considerable chromatic abberation because it was designed for 4:3 video format and not 16:9. Also, since back then 400-700 lines was considered excellent resolution, the lens doesn't perform as well at 1920 lines because of the quality of the glass. Up to now, I have used that lens on every camcorder I bought from 1990 on, with adapter rings of course.
But with this TM700, I believe it's time to upgrade.

So I believe it is worth spending extra dollars to get a high quality lens to avoid ruinning the spectacular image that the original lens can already provide. I will probably get the Panasonic one because, as stated by Paulo Teixeira, it was designed specifically for these models.
I guess I'll ask Santa for one this Christmas...but I'm not holding my breath. Lol.
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post #1086 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

T

For HDV, I used to recommend DivX and then when AVCHD came out I used to recommend CoreAVC. This remind me that people should try CoreAVC and see if it will help.

------------------

Paulo, How did you store all your Mpeg2-hd from HC1 did you burn all of them using DivX codec. I still have them on external hard drives. I tried to make some avchd-dvd out of them but with quality loss.
There come my main concern : I feel that I am living the same story with those 1080 50p shots : I keep them on 2 external hard drives for the "future" since they are not included in any BR specifications.
Mpeg2-hd is forgoten (and so my HC1 films that I still view from my PC to my projector).
In 5 years time maybe I'll be in the same situation with those 1080 50p files that I ll only share in downgraded format.
Those camcorders are ahead of available and usefull solutions to edit read and share with the same quality.
I REALY HOPE I AM WRONG
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post #1087 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 04:14 PM
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What I meant was by using the DivX player to play the HDV files on the computer. I still have the original tapes and their also stored on Data DVDs and a hard drive. The PS3 actually plays the native Mpeg2 files believe it or not. I'm sometimes surprised that the media capabilities of the PS3 aren't as praised as it should be.

I've read that in Europe, a lot of people are pushing for 1080 50p knowing that they wont need to think hard over rather they should shoot in 720 50p or 1080 50i for broadcast. At least I know Sony is "planning" to put it in their new NXCAM. This would dramatically increase the chances of 1080 50p AND 60P being part of the Blu-Ray spec. I'm sure it would take just a firmware update for the PS3 and since most Blu-Ray players are the PS3, that shouldn't be a problem for a lot of people. It's time to put 60i to rest already and for companies to provide better 1080 60p support. I also say it's time for Apple to fully embrace Blu-Ray and native editing for most HD formats knowing that Adobe is starting to eat into Final Cut sales.
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post #1088 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 06:02 PM
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Panasonic VW-W4607H
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post #1089 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 06:37 PM
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$112.50 is definitely not a bad deal at all for a lens that was made specifically for a certain camcorder but I'm not so sure it's still effective. I'd call Panasonic to see if you can still get it at that price. That would be incredible if you can.
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post #1090 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 06:43 PM
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i just got this camcorder Panasonic-High-Definition 9.15MP Camcorder with 240GB Hard Drive and 3" LCD Monitor-Black-Hdc-Hs700k but i can get this lens for that amount....
this for only for me.....
HDC-SDT750K
$1,399.95 Retail Price
-$419.95 You save
$980.00 Your Pric
HDC-HS700K
$1,399.95 Retail Price
-$489.95 You save
$910.00 Your Price

HDC-TM700K
$999.95 Retail Price
-$299.95 You save
$700.00 Your Price

VW-W4607
$249.95 Retail Price
-$137.45 You save
$112.50 Your Price
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post #1091 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 06:45 PM
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Hello all, another ? here and THANKS in advance for all your time...


I'm wondering if any of you are Vimeo Plus users, or know whether it offers its users playback in 60p? I know that Paulo, you have mentioned that Vimeo drops your footage down to 30p, and I can see that in my uploaded 720 60p sample, but I'd like to offer my viewers 60p downloads and would have to render the same video TWICE in order to give them a smooth embeddable vimeo player version.

I know that vimeo offers Plus users an "upgraded" quality, but is this an upgrade in the sense of less compression or better frame rates?

Any help appreciated...
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post #1092 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 06:46 PM
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Best I can tell, the price for this on Panasonic's site is $225.
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post #1093 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 06:52 PM
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Vimeo Plus offers 1080p but I'm not sure what the framerate is.
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post #1094 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:03 PM
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I just posted to a forum board over on Vimeo, I'll report back if I get a clear answer.
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post #1095 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:08 PM
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@ Gary Quiring...


I'm into RC Helis, have seen your videos of planes, and can't seem to achieve the quality you're getting on YT, so just wondering why...

I even uploaded an .MTS file, raw, w/ no external compression, and the video they shot back was compressed to around 5% of the orig. file size and looked AWEFUL!

I'm trying to shoot 60p, preserve the motion and allow viewers to take advantage of 60p, but really not seeing any good options for this.

Any thoughts?
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post #1096 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:19 PM
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It's just like YouTube I believe but what's funny is that YouTube is offering higher than 1920x1080p like if your uploading RED footage.

The difference in compression is that for free users, they will give you 1 HD streaming file per week while for paid users like me, every one of my files are converted to HD. Also, for free users, the original files are downloadable for 1 week and then after that, the streaming version will take it's place as the downloadable file. One of the reasons why I'm sticking with Plus is because not only do I want to be able to upload up to 2 gigs per file and 5 gig of total space per week, I want people to download the original files if they choose to. I also have a pro account on Flickr and I have chosen to never down-convert my photos. Basically every one of my photos are the original size off the camera. I don't believe in posting thumbnail sized images. I know some people wants to "protect" their photos but in my opinion, it really destroys them.

I do think think that to get the best of both worlds, you should output to 1280x720 60p at around 17Mbps using 2 pass encode. This way, both the streaming version and the downloadable version will look god.
Here's an example of a video in which I exported to 60p using the settings I mentioned.
http://vimeo.com/16785241
I obviously used the GH1 and it was completely hand-held without any type of stabilizer and there's a lot of motion but because my bit rate was pretty high, I don't think it look that bad considering the circumstances. For sure it would have looked better if I had some type of stabilizer.
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post #1097 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:29 PM
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You see Paulo, on my computer, that video stutters quite a bit, the fluidity of the dancers just isn't portrayed and i know it isn't the camera or the videographer, but Vimeo...

I was hoping to hear, once I go Plus, Vimeo will allow viewers to see my videos in 60p.

So if you had originally rendered that video @ 720 30p 17mbps, would the Vimeo video look less "stuttery"?

Nice video BTW
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post #1098 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:40 PM
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For sure it could have looked much better if I had a stabilizer and if I was using a TM700 but it'll still be 30p streaming regardless and that's not a good frame rate for a lot of motion. Trust me, I actually want Vimeo to implement 60p but I'm not sure when that will happen but for sure the more people who have an interest in 60p the more likely YouTube and Vimeo will implement 60p streaming.

Now never mind the fact that I was around a lot of people which really restricts me from moving around and at the same time you have to be careful not to be in anybody's way. I do have far, far better examples that shows off my shooting when I do have a lot of freedom but it's not for public display yet and instead I'm planing to do an even better one by using both a GH2 and a TM700.
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post #1099 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 07:51 PM
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You know Paulo,

watching your video again in NON-full screen and your video looks pretty good, still a bit of stuttering in the subjects, not necessarily coming from YOU.

I'm also watching some other featured stuff on Vimeo and notice how much BETTER it looks if I don't go full screen mode. I mean, it looks good in FS mode, but it stutters. However, in window mode, there is not stuttering on most featured videos AND it's super crisp.

So, maybe my issue with Vimeo is actually an issue with my system and how it allocates resources to viewing videos in FS through the Vimeo player.

Any thoughts?

I'll start spreading the 60p word on Vimeo, maybe they're listening?
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post #1100 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 08:15 PM
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Here's another one just for the heck of it.
http://www.vimeo.com/6256427
Also with the GH1 and completely hand-held. I was fooling around with half of those shots just to see how it'll look later on. It was converted to 720 60p and I'm probably going to replace that with the original AVCHD file. The quality may only increase by a few percent but what the heck.

At least I'm glad the viewer can download my 720 60p files to view on their HD TV if they want to see far better motion quality.

Off topic but my clips does show off how good the auto focusing is out of the 14-140mm lens.
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post #1101 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 08:32 PM
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Why is it I cannot download your original file? I click download and it just loads the video in a generic player in a new window, no fancy Vimeo player. I've successfully downloaded clips in the past, but recently have gotten these unsatisfactory results

Also, to go off of your "off-topic" of focus, how would I get the best results, as far as focus is concerned, when recording an RC helicopter outdoors? I will try to link to a sample video, this is the quality I'm going for?

You'll have to download the HD file, and I'm not sure if you can if you aren't logged in, but these videos are phenomenal and in 720 60p BTW.

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/rr...ies/ALIGN2010/
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post #1102 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 08:43 PM
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I sometimes get issues myself when trying to download other people's clips but I've tried workarounds. For your case, have you tried on a different browser?

Those 2 clips were in the intelligent Auto setting (just please pretend I didn't say that) so I don't have a clue what aperture the camera was using.

Anyway, something that helps with the focusing is by closing up the lens. Basically on a TM700 with an f/1.5 setting, it'll be harder to focus than if it was on something like f/8 for example.
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post #1103 of 1624 Old 11-27-2010, 08:57 PM
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well, outdoors in bright conditions, I'll possibly get f8?

How do I set the zoom to infinity? My concern is that, since an RC helicopter moves forwards, backwards, left, right, changes altitude, and all of that VERY quickly. If you watch the videos I link to, you'll see they have very few focus issues. Do you think they are in AF?

As for another browser, I would hate for that to be the solution as my viewers may not be so tech savvy as to use another browser. They would probably just abort the "download".
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post #1104 of 1624 Old 11-28-2010, 08:33 AM
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I have a limit over how much help I can give concerning the TM700 type camcorders since I don't own one unfortunately. Also I may download those videos at a later time since I do have to be signed in.

Here's a RC air-plane video on Vimeo shot with the SD707.
http://vimeo.com/17195951

I'm getting a little bit carried away and I'm fully aware of that but I'm going to post a few more of my videos.

In these 2 videos, I was packed like a sardine inside the rowdy crowd of people. That Gymnastics video was bad enough as is and in this case, it was a lot worse. On top of all that it was extremely hot and unfortunately even if I had a Zoom H4N to get the audio off the board I don't think I would have been allowed to use it so I'm sorry to say this but the audio was off at least one or both the built in camera mics of the GH1 and HV30. Shooting conditions will never always be perfect even when you have to record a live band and your not able to get the best sound possible. That's life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vaRvZbZj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=webBureetv8
Obviously the camera that was in my hand was the GH1 without any support and the camera that was on stage was shot by one of the kids biggest fans with an HV30. Please just pay attention to only the GH1 shots and by all means, please select HD!
Anyway, I edited in Premiere CS5 and since YouTube can doesn't allow an original file download option (I wish they did!!!), I converted it to 720 30p at a bit rate of around 9Mbps using 2 pass. H.264 was the codec like my other videos. That should give you an idea of a YouTube torture test. Still, it does seam like the YouTube compression was working against me. I wish the results were a little better.

Now for these 2 clips on Vimeo, they are RAW 720 60p files directly off the GH1.
http://vimeo.com/10662171
http://vimeo.com/10662174
Speaking of a torture test, this make those 2 YouTube clips seam like nothing. Now this is really what I call a torture test since I was not really paying attention to my shooting and combine that with a lot of action and getting sometimes wracked by people's pillows. I could have sworn the rules was not to hit the camera people! At least my GH1 survived.

It's events like that, that makes me question why the heck was I using a DSLR type camera when a camcorder is far more suitable. Their are feature on the GH2 that I want badly such as the crop mode and I'm definitely into photography but for sure I have to get a TM700 as well. I might finally pull the trigger before Christmas if I see it go down to $700. $650 would be even better but expecting that would be pushing it big time. For sure I'd be extremely happy getting the TM700 for $650. Who wouldn't!.


OK, no more spamming the TM700 thread with GH1 clips. I promise!

Still, unless it's a video with a mixture of TM700, GH1, GH2, 5D Marik II and HVX200A clips in a cool video that I have planned.
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post #1105 of 1624 Old 11-28-2010, 09:52 AM
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Here's a recently uploaded SD700 example in which the bit rate isn't high but the streaming motion quality still looks very good because most of the shots were carefully crafted. Much different environment than the shots that I posted with the GH1.
http://vimeo.com/17238525

I posted other examples here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post19538333
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post #1106 of 1624 Old 11-28-2010, 05:41 PM
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Thanks for the links.

I'm still having lots of stuttering issues w/ some videos and none with others, and that's when the player is minimized. When the player is full screen, I get nothing smooth

Oh well, some great looking footage there...
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post #1107 of 1624 Old 11-29-2010, 06:45 AM
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I decided to go for the $30 wide angle. I'll let you know how it works out.
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post #1108 of 1624 Old 11-29-2010, 02:23 PM
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Hi all,
Have any of you noticed that when shooting 1080/60P video to the 32GB Internal Memory and you quickly Pan left or right, a notice will come up on the LCD display stating that you panned too quickly.
I do not see it in the Final Product (Video) just on the display while shooting.

Well, I purchased a Lexar "Professional 133X" SDHC "Class 10" 32GB Card for Thanksgiving. ($109.00)
First thing that I noticed is that when I am shooting Video to the Lexar SDHC Card, I can Pan and Scan as fast as I want and I do not see that notice pop up on the Display telling me that I was panning to quickly.
I would surmise that the Camcorder can write quicker to the Lexar Class 10 card than it can to the Internal 32GB Memory!

You would think that Panasonic would install fast enough Memory into the camcorder that a Class 10 card would not show up the Pan Memory!
Not a big deal, stable video (Tri-Pod) I'll shoot to the Internal memory, Fast moving/Panning and Scanning Video will go to the Lexar Card!

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post #1109 of 1624 Old 11-30-2010, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

In low light situations you should always have the lens set to f/1.5 and for the shutter, either 30 or 60 depending on how clear you want the picture quality and how much motion is in the scene. A lot of motion and a shutter of 30 may not be a good idea so it all depends. Now if your shooting in 24p, a shutter of 24 is recommended although you need to realize that you need something like NeoScene to fix the 24p.

Could you tell me the easiest way to set the shutter speed to 1/30th or lower (Someone mentioned l/4 or l/5th)? Maybe the only way to get down to l/30 or lower is to use Auto Slow Shutter or Night Color? I can't seem to find an option, in manual mode, to go below 1/60th of a second (even if not in 60 p). Thanks.
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post #1110 of 1624 Old 11-30-2010, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizrank View Post


Could you tell me the easiest way to set the shutter speed to 1/30th or lower (Someone mentioned l/4 or l/5th)? Maybe the only way to get down to l/30 or lower is to use Auto Slow Shutter or Night Color? I can't seem to find an option, in manual mode, to go below 1/60th of a second (even if not in 60 p). Thanks.

Yes, Auto Slow Shutter has to be enabled in order to be able to select below 1/60. Lower speeds will be selected automatically with Night Color mode on.
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