The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

I've just tried CS5 a little, and what I did was following:
- created new project
- created new sequence
- picked the closest preset (1920x1080 30p etc)
- went to General tab
- in editing mode selected Desktop
- in timebase selected 60 fps
- tweak whatever else you need

I've just done a couple of quicks tests, but output video looks great. Haven't gone to details to check if it's very different from raw video, but I think I maybe have the test file on my computer.. Got to go out now, but I'll try to remember tomorrow to look it up and if I find it I'll post it. Original is on my web page, as I've got no TM700, so I've tried with other people's recordings.

No need to create manually a New Sequence in Premiere cs5.

Try this:
1. Open Premiere
2. Click New Project
3. Close (cancel) a New Sequence window without picking a closest preset.
4. Premiere creates and opens a New Project, but without a Sequence.
5. Import Panasonic's a native MTS clip into Premiere.
6. Move it by means of a mouse to the "New Item" icon (at the bottom of the Project window).
7. Premiere creates a New Sequence automatically with native parameters of just imported MTS clip.
8. Rename Sequence if you want.

Enjoy!
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post #212 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 08:40 AM
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Hey everybody --

I just purchased the HS700 for $1000. I notice the noise only sometimes in a quiet room. Also I remember once I was recording in my quiet living room and there were kids playing somewhere downstairs (I live on the 3rd floor) and the camcorder still picked up their voices. It seems like the camcorder mic is highly sensitive. I recorded this with the default db setting for the mic.

One thing I also like is the 'Color Night shot' mode (only available in manual mode). It really brightens a very dark room. Only issue is it drops some frames in between so the video recording appears bit slow.

Thanks
Canis Majoris
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post #213 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionX View Post

Does anyone here know if iMovie supports the 700 at 1080p60 yet? I heard there were issues with importing video into iMovie/Final Cut but wasnt sure if it had been adressed yet thru an update or something.
(27" I7 iMac)

Let me quote my question in case anyone missed it. Can anyone give me an answer on this please? I am about a day or two from making my decision and I'd rather go with the Panasonic, but am leaning toward the Canon mainly because of the compatibility issue. Has there been any updates on this on Apple's or Panasonic's part?
I really don't feel like having to convert files back and forth and rather just import them into iMovie/Final Cut Pro directly.
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post #214 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myg View Post

No need to create manually a New Sequence in Premiere cs5.

Try this:

7. Premiere creates a New Sequence automatically with native parameters of just imported MTS clip.
8. Rename Sequence if you want.
Enjoy!

Wow, that's a lot easier I just get lost in these huge Adobe apps.. I'm more comfortable with point&click hehehehe ))) But I'm sure others will be real happy about this tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanisMajoris View Post

I just purchased the HS700 for $1000. I notice the noise only sometimes in a quiet room. Also I remember once I was recording in my quiet living room and there were kids playing somewhere downstairs (I live on the 3rd floor) and the camcorder still picked up their voices. It seems like the camcorder mic is highly sensitive. I recorded this with the default db setting for the mic.

I've read that camera increases sensitivity of mic when in very silent environment. That's probably part of the reason why people hear fan in these situations.. Perhaps manually setting it would eliminate the problem? I've got no manual, gonna download one..

Btw, could anyone from US tell me what is in the original box? Camcorder, battery, charger with cable, USB cable, CD/DVD disc with software, manual.. anything else? And do you think that I could easily find a 220V cable for charger?
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post #215 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 01:29 PM
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Is there anyway to run this camera on AC without the battery charger? Some aftermarket product? Seems silly that you can charge your battery OR run on AC but not both.

Thanks,
Ho'okani
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post #216 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 01:42 PM
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Hey, has anyone figured out how to set the zoom speed from the remote control? I am having difficulty keeping the image stable in both OIS modes when the TM700 is zoomed to 18x on a tripod. Touching the zoom button on the camcorder to do a slow unzoom wobbles the picture. Using the remote to unzoom brings on nausea as it's too fast! Anyone figured out a better way to do this yet (besides buying a super large tripod)?
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post #217 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 04:38 PM
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You generally should not be using OIS when you mount the cam on a tripod. This is true of all camcorders with image stabilization.
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post #218 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

Touching the zoom button on the camcorder to do a slow unzoom wobbles the picture. Using the remote to unzoom brings on nausea as it's too fast!

Have you tried the zoom ring? (it has many functions, but zoom is one of them). Using the ring might wobble the camera less than the zoom lever.

On the other hand, I feel a solid tripod is a good investment. They hold their value, unlike cameras :-). I have a big heavy wood tripod that's probably older than me, and the little TM700 looks ridiculous on it, but it's very solid. I find small light tripods to be easy to carry, but frustrating to use. Thinking another way- this camera at 18x zoom is really a telescope. Would you mount a telescope on a flimsy tripod, and expect a steady image?
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post #219 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookani View Post

Is there anyway to run this camera on AC without the battery charger? Some aftermarket product? Seems silly that you can charge your battery OR run on AC but not both.

Well, the battery charger is the AC supply. Other cameras, like the Sony have an AC supply that is about the same size as the Panasonic charger/supply, so there's no real size advantage. You could just get a second charger/supply, if you want to charge and run at the same time.

I had a different problem: needed to run for 4+ hours, longer than my battery. I was also taking a audio feed from the house sound system and even with my Studio1 XLR adaptor which supposedly is transformer-isolated, I got a noisy hum when using the AC supply. It was the AC connection because there was no hum with a battery. So I made my own 12V -> 9.3V regulator, spliced into the camera DC power cable, and ran the camera off a big 12V gel cell in a backpack hanging from the tripod. With that, the audio worked out fine. Not a solution for everyone, but it worked for me. I might have also got it to work without a ground-loop hum with a 12V->120VAC inverter powering the standard AC adaptor, but I didn't try that.
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post #220 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

You generally should not be using OIS when you mount the cam on a tripod. This is true of all camcorders with image stabilization.

No OIS would mean I cannot make use of the technology I purchased. I know the manual says this but when I mount the Canon HFM31, no such issues. The only difference, the OIS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeale View Post

Have you tried the zoom ring? (it has many functions, but zoom is one of them). Using the ring might wobble the camera less than the zoom lever.

On the other hand, I feel a solid tripod is a good investment. They hold their value, unlike cameras :-). I have a big heavy wood tripod that's probably older than me, and the little TM700 looks ridiculous on it, but it's very solid. I find small light tripods to be easy to carry, but frustrating to use.

Thanks for the tip. I did try using the ring as well but that also wobbled the camera. Also, I could not sustain the un-zooming from 12x to 1x using the ring. My wrist just will not rotate that many times before I have to re-grip .

I am surprised to see that the zoom function cannot be slowed down in the controls.

So the answer yet again is a bigger tripod. Not sure big I need to go for 12-18x. In fact, it may not work at all when I am shooting on a wooden deck that moves when the wind increases. Like I said, this was a non-issue with the Canon.

Anyone else find a way to unzoom to slow zoom out from 18x?
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post #221 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 05:47 PM
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Some cameras do have zoom speed selectors, as far as I know the TM700 doesn't. It's too bad the companies aren't more open with firmware so hackers could add in simple features like that :-). Yes, I suspect the latest Canon & Sony cameras do have better stabilization technology; it's a very active field of development.

Maybe not the solution you want, but since there is a rotating ring you might be able to jury-rig some kind of external drive that would help do a smooth zoom without applying force to the camera body. I've heard of people using a loop of string wrapped around a control ring to zoom. Maybe even a remote rotating flexible shaft... there are possibilities.
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post #222 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeale View Post

Some cameras do have zoom speed selectors, as far as I know the TM700 doesn't. It's too bad the companies aren't more open with firmware so hackers could add in simple features like that :-). Yes, I suspect the latest Canon & Sony cameras do have better stabilization technology; it's a very active field of development.

Maybe not the solution you want, but since there is a rotating ring you might be able to jury-rig some kind of external drive that would help do a smooth zoom without applying force to the camera body. I've heard of people using a loop of string wrapped around a control ring to zoom. Maybe even a remote rotating flexible shaft... there are possibilities.

Thanks for trying to inspire me to find a solution for the zoom function on the TM700. If Panny built it right, we would not have to find another solution. Still, your tips are much appreciated.
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post #223 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 10:18 PM
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I'm starting to question your posts here bowmah.

The OIS at long zoom on the TM700 is as good as any camera I've ever seen. I can hand hold shots at 18x quite nicely. From the samples of the M31 on Youtube I'll suggest it's not as good. From my testing of the HFS21 in the store, the TM700 is definitely the superior in OIS.

The TM700 doesn't need any solutions for zoom function or OIS. It's industry leading in both. Either your tripod is junk or your camera is broken.

Same for the fan noise. Either you're amplifying the audio above normal listening level or your camera is defective.

Simply post a video of both the audio and zooming on the tripod. If you're unwilling to show what the issue is, your posts are not credible.

Cheers,
Pete
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post #224 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post


Thanks for trying to inspire me to find a solution for the zoom function on the TM700. If Panny built it right, we would not have to find another solution. Still, your tips are much appreciated.

Suggestion: buy another camera. Maybe, just maybe, they got it right.
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post #225 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 11:16 PM
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[quote=Ken Ross;18746107But then I began reading how people were getting great playback on quad cores and even some dual cores. Then someone mentioned "Splash Lite" and it helped my dual core 100%. I still don't get buttery playback, but it's really not bad at all.
[/QUOTE]


Ken - what is Splash Lite? Can you provide a download URL please.

Edited: OK Found it http://www.mirillis.com/splash.html
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post #226 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionX View Post


Let me quote my question in case anyone missed it. Can anyone give me an answer on this please? I am about a day or two from making my decision and I'd rather go with the Panasonic, but am leaning toward the Canon mainly because of the compatibility issue. Has there been any updates on this on Apple's or Panasonic's part?
I really don't feel like having to convert files back and forth and rather just import them into iMovie/Final Cut Pro directly.

My workflow right now involves using an Automator script written by someone here on the forum that losslessly puts the MTS file into an MP4 container that iMovie can read. The steps:

1. Copy the MTS files from the camera to a hard drive
2. Drag the MTS files onto the Automator script
3. Drag the newly created MP4 files into iMovie

I don't find it too cumbersome, assuming it's only for 4 months or so until this new format will presumably be supported.

To export edited 1080p/60 files I export to MP4 using the QT menu option, setting the bitrate to 16300.

Hope this helps.
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post #227 of 1625 Old 06-09-2010, 11:40 PM
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The instructions for finding and using the Automator script are here:
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post #228 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 02:58 AM
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Just a quick question.. for newb like me..
After I get the cam, I'll be uploading these videos online for viewing. It's on my own site, so I can pick the settings as I wish. What do you think, what's the rough bitrate where such 1080p videos would keep satisfying quality. Would something around 5 Mbps (in H.264 + AAC stereo) be enough? That's around 1 DVD in size for 2h video. Or do you think that it would be wiser to go a notch down in resolution to 720p? Or will I just have to experiment myself again Perhaps someone know what's the bitrate of Youtube videos at 1080 resolution? I've read that 720p videos are around 2Mbps, and it seems that Vimeo has the same. But can't find any suggestions for 1080p. Calculating with pure pixel increase, that would be 4.5Mbps for 1080p video.. which is close to 5 Mbps that I had in mind.. EDIT: Ok, found it, Youtube recodes to around 3.7 Mbps. So I guess 5Mbps should be good enough for most people.
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post #229 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 05:53 AM
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4 or 5 would be decent for something like 720 24 or 30p but for 1080 footage, it's best to have at least 8 or 9. Still that would be overkill for regular streaming so you might be forced to go lower.

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post #230 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionX View Post

Let me quote my question in case anyone missed it. Can anyone give me an answer on this please? I am about a day or two from making my decision and I'd rather go with the Panasonic, but am leaning toward the Canon mainly because of the compatibility issue. Has there been any updates on this on Apple's or Panasonic's part?
I really don't feel like having to convert files back and forth and rather just import them into iMovie/Final Cut Pro directly.

This is the deal. You can't import 1080p/60p video into the Mac as of this moment. I have a dual-boot Macbook, so I download the 60p video on the WinXP side into an external hardrive. At that point I have two options, I can either take the 60p video into the Mac and use Handbrake to convert it to MP4, or I can convert the video to 60i on the WinXP in a format that is accepted in the iMovie.

I can also convert the 60p video into AVCHD on the camera or computer, and then imported into iMovie. You can download video from the TM700 to iMovie as long as it is AVCHD.

Canon records AVCHD only, and the Panasonic does too. With the Panasonic you get the 60p advantage, but it is as compatible as the Canon when importing AVCHD. So why choose the Canon based on "compatibility"? You get more Camera with the TM700 IMO.
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post #231 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

No OIS would mean I cannot make use of the technology I purchased. I know the manual says this but when I mount the Canon HFM31, no such issues. The only difference, the OIS.

Bowmah, every single camcorder manufacturer with OIS tells you the same thing, when you mount it on a tripod turn off the OIS. Why do you think they say this? You use OIS for stabilization, you use a tripod for stabilization and smooth pans. Why would you use both? When you begin a pan with OIS on, the OIS fights the panning movement as you begin as it's designed to do in any camcorder. This is something you don't want on a tripod. If you still insist on using OIS in this manner, you'll have to deal with the side effects as you would with any OIS-equipped camera.

Now, if you're using OIS because you're not getting stable videos from your tripod, then you may not have a particularly good tripod.
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post #232 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Bowmah, every single camcorder manufacturer with OIS tells you the same thing, when you mount it on a tripod turn off the OIS. Why do you think they say this? You use OIS for stabilization, you use a tripod for stabilization and smooth pans. Why would you use both? When you begin a pan with OIS on, the OIS fights the panning movement as you begin as it's designed to do in any camcorder. This is something you don't want on a tripod. If you still insist on using OIS in this manner, you'll have to deal with the side effects as you would with any OIS-equipped camera.

Now, if you're using OIS because you're not getting stable videos from your tripod, then you may not have a particularly good tripod.

I second Ken on this one. You HAVE to turn off OIS/Image Stabilization when you use a tripod with any camera, from DSLRs to Video....
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post #233 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 09:17 AM
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Is Premier CS5 the best editing software available for the TM700 now? I really need to get something other than what came with the camera.

My computer is a new i7 920 CPU sytem with Windows 7 utlimate 64 bit OS

What is the cost?

Thanks...

Rick
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post #234 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich121 View Post

Is Premier CS5 the best editing software available for the TM700 now? I really need to get something other than what came with the camera.

My computer is a new i7 920 CPU sytem with Windows 7 utlimate 64 bit OS

What is the cost?

Rick, I'd say that no - i isn't the best.. Premiere CS5 costs whooping 799$. On the other hand, people are saying that Edius offers much cheaper software that is faster in editing and encoding, so you should check it out. There are multiple versions, I'll let someone else to talk about it.

If you don't need anything super-advanced, than check out Cyberlink PowerDirector 8. It's optimized for i7, ATI and nVidia, and in my short experience with trial, it is quite good.

But my ultimate advice would be - get them all. No, don't buy them all But they are all available as trials, so you can check them all for a month, and than decide which one is best for YOU.
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post #235 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 10:01 AM
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I'm using Sony Vegas 9e to edit the 1080p60 files. This works well for me, no issues. It even has the correct preset built-in ("double NTSC" at 1920x1080 progressive 59.94 fps) I can drag MTS and m2ts files onto the timeline and edit them just like any other AVCHD files. I'm using a 2.8 GHz quad-core, and it doesn't always play smoothly at full res from the timeline but editing and rendering works just fine. My final output is 1080i because that's all I'm confident anyone else can really view. I think Vegas has a free trial also. There is a much cheaper version, "Vegas Movie Studio" around $50, but it does not handle 1080p60, only 1080i.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro
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post #236 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 10:05 AM
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bowmah wrote: "I am surprised to see that the zoom function cannot be slowed down in the controls."

I agree that the travelling distance of the zoom toggle is extremelty short, which makes it very difficult to control zooming speed: either to slow the zoom or maintain a uniform zoom.

I stick 3mm square tabs of folded paper to the body of the camera with Magic Tape [which can be removed without leaving adhesive] underneath the overhanging edges of the zoom switch. A tab on both sides, pressing against the shaft of the toggle. These provide just enough resistance to allow the zoom to be controlled much more precisely - and for a slow and uniform zoom to be made.
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post #237 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 10:05 AM
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I've promised someone to tell them how the Premiere output looks compared to raw video.

I've taken those 2 zoo recordings that Ken made (monkey and antilop; M2TS, H.264, 60p, ~25Mbps, AC3, 5.1) and joined them in CS5, and exported them back out in MP4, H.264, 60p, ~14Mbps, AAC, 5.1. If you pay attention and/or watch on big screen, you'll see difference, but that's on sample that's way lower in bitrate. I think that you'd be hard pressed to see any difference if I left a 25Mbps bitrate for output.

So all in all, Premiere does a good job. I just think it's overkill for personal use, and way too expensive (again, for personal use). If you're into professional editing, than sure, go for it.. Premiere community alone is worth it. But for personal use.. I'm not so sure..

Btw, I'll have to install PowerDirector again, as I haven't tried exporting in 60p. 30p samples that I did are real good regarding picture quality, but a Indy car recording shows just how much 60p matters in fast movements..
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post #238 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich121 View Post

Is Premier CS5 the best editing software available for the TM700 now? I really need to get something other than what came with the camera.

My computer is a new i7 920 CPU sytem with Windows 7 utlimate 64 bit OS

What is the cost?

Thanks...

Rick

I agree with what LuxZg said. Most of the NLE's have 30 day trials. See what works best for you.

I just came into the world of HD editing with the purchase of the Tm700. In the past all of my footage was shot in SD. We shot hunting videos which were edited in Avid Liquid 7.2 along with tons of add ons, so I've spent lots of $'s on software. I have Pinnacle Studio 14 which handles HD but I find it clunky. I did the 30 day trial of Edius Neo 2.5 Booster and it handles the Tm700's footage very smoothly. I bought it from B&H for $199. I couldn't justify Edius Neo 5.5 which is well over $600.

Good Luck!
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post #239 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 10:19 AM
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Although I accept that in principle, and according to the manufacturers' recommendations IOS should be turned off on a tripod, there is one situation where having OIS turned on is at least a thoretical benefit: When a zoom or pan movement starts in the middle of a clip.

I used a SD700 to produce clips to integrate with 25p content from a 5DMark II because there are times when the SD700 is the better tool for a job and the SD700 content can be mixed with 5DII content very well.

To develop sharpness and colour grading settings I could use to match the footage from the two cameras [you can't do this exactly because of the different tone curves but you can do it unobtrusively] I mounted both on the same fluid head to shoot simultaneous view.

When I played the clips together, split frame, I could see that with OIS on, any trembling in the SD700 footage when the trpid was handled - whilst still there - was less severe and ended more quickly than the 5D content.

[I know, I need a better fluid head !]
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post #240 of 1625 Old 06-10-2010, 10:26 AM
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Ok, I've just reinstalled PowerDirector and - no, don't use that :P Has no 60fps mode at all, and no bitrate over 17Mbps VBR (max peak is at 20Mbps). That's a bit too low for this camcorder I think.. it's ok for most videos, but if you'll ever want 60p output you can't do it.

And thanks to jbeale, I forgot to mention Vegas as well.

Anyway, my recommendation is same. Download them all, they all have trials (including Premiere and Edius 5.5), so you can try it all, and pick the best.

And... has anyone noticed that actually all major apps support editing of TM700 videos? Makes you wonder why the hell did all reviewers say that they couldn't edit video. Have all these apps been updated in last month or two? Ok, so some won't export in 60p, but they can all import it and work with it. At least on Windows
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