Originally Posted by Ken Ross
Yup, this was part of the 'misinformation campaign' by some here on AVS. It got really annoying to see people who should have known better and were previously told the facts, to conveniently 'forget' the facts.
As for the pro reviewers, it may have been simple ignorance on their part and not being familiar with editing solutions.
OK then, I'm a HDC-TM700K owner, and I have tried just about every editing tool I can get my hands on, none with complete success. Could you please clarify what are the 1080p60 editing options, that meet the following needs:
1. Completely smooth preview during editing, while really displaying 60 progressive frames. Ideally without pre-rendering the entire video track. Needing to pre-render transitions and the video adjustments is fine though.
2. Ability to do simple cuts, and transitions/fades etc between the video segments (this should be an easy one for most editing tools)
3. Ability to do levels and color (or WB) adjustment to the video track, and preview this smoothly, I'm OK if this needs to be pre-rendered for preview.
4. Ability to output 1080p60 in a format compatible with Windows Media Center.
5. Ability to see the audio wave form, and to easily remove the fan noise from quiet segments. Yes I do get an objectionable level of fan noise, yes it's annoying to me on unedited tracks, I don't want to debate about the fan but just deal with it in editing.
6. That I can do the above without a Core i7. Because I think all of the above is actually achieveable on CS4 or CS5 Premiere Pro if I upgrade to a Core-i7, but not on my Core 2 Quad 3.6GHz.
Even beyond editing, I can't even playback smoothly except through Panny's HD Writer AE software, where it does work flawlessly.
I have tried so many editing options that it's ridiculous:
CS4 - can't smoothly preview, only displays the MPEG I-Frames, which gives me 12fps. Crashes when I add transitions. If I switch the previews to uncompressed formats it takes up 16GB/Minute of disk space and runs into an IO issue, I suspect in the interconnect between the CPU and chipset, ultimately it's not smooth.
CS5-Trial - Marginally better, but still not smooth in preview, especially during transitions and fades, but at least it doesn't crash. Notably, I only have the Trial edition, so would love to hear if the full version includes more useful codecs that make this actually work properly.
I've tried coversion to MP4 files using Adobe Media Encoder, basically no difference from the results above.
I've loaded the K-lite and Splash-lite codecs and players. No improvement in playback, and no improvement in editing.
I downloaded a trial version of Vegas - worse than Premiere.
I think I looked for Pinnacle support, but either I couldn't download a trial, or they didn't claim to support the 1080p60 so I never actually tried it.
This week I downloaded Edius Neo 2.5 Trial. WOW, now that looks promising. It is the first real editing application (HD Writer AE excluded) I've seen be able to load a 1080p60 file and play it smoothly. HOWEVER, although it's loading and playing the 1080p60 file, based on the timeline time-counter display that only ever goes up to frame 29 it looks suspiciously like it's not playing all 60 frames. I wonder if it's playing the 60p by dropping every other frame and playing it as a 30p segment. It is interesting that if I put both 1080i60 and 1080p60 on the same timeline, the CPU demands for the 1080p is higher, so it's clearly doing more work, but what concerns me is the frame counter only ever goes to 29 per second with both file formats. What kills Neo2.5 for me is the lack of 1080p60 output, and very weak audio editing features, I couldn't figure out how to see the audio wave form, and it didn't look at all easy to remove the fan noise. I imagine Edius 5.x is better on the audio, but it's still not got 1080p60 output, I'm still doubtful that it's actually displaying 1080p60 in preview, and it is more expensive than the educational discount I can get on CS5.
At this point I've almost resigned myself to one of two paths:
1. Record in 1080p60, convert to 1080i HA through the camera, and edit that (which works just fine on pretty much any editing solution). or,
2. Buy a high end Core-i7, I figure with CPU, motherboard, and 12GB that's around $1200. Plus possibly CS5 for another $450. Argh, this $815 camcorder suddenly got awfully expensive.
So Ken (or anyone else) you're saying it's so easy to edit 60P and doesn't require premium hardware, with my needs as stated above, what options do you think I could use, because I'm all out of ideas.