Camcorders that do 120fps or more at 480p? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 08-06-2010, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lisame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Shooting at 120fps or even 240fps or 300fps can look amazing. Although camcorders, even budget ones, can record at 60fps with 1080p quality, it seems that they get extremely low resolution when shooting at 120fps or more.

Do you know a camcorder for amateurs that does 120fps or more with 480p quality or better?
lisame is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 04:53 AM
Senior Member
 
ahender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
You can shoot at 60p then slow it down with software.

I do that with Edius Neo Booster.

The Casio Exilim EX-FH100 does 120 fps at VGA resolution.

Alan
ahender is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 06:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Shadow_7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Is your intent slow motion? Motion analysis? Or do you just feel that 120fps video looks more real? Give it five years and there should be a few 120fps camcorders at HD resolutions. It's a given IMO. 120 is the only one cleanly divisible into 24p, 30p, and 60p.

As far as current options. Casio is the only consumer brand I know of that gives a fair resolution at a higher fps. But bear in mind that many of them ONLY do the high fps for a limited amount of time (10 seconds). There are a few pro-ish models that currently do up to 1,000fps at 1080p. But not any of those for < $1,000 unless you're just renting.

Casio Exlim FH100

120 fps 640x480
240 fps 448x336
420 fps 224x168
1000 fps 224x64
30-120 fps 640x480
30-240 fps 448x336

from:
http://support.casio.com/pdf/001/EXF...B_100311_E.pdf
on page 63

Bear in mind that a higher FPS means a higher MINIMUM shutter speed. So 120fps means 1/120 is as slow as the shutter can go at that frame rate. Which could make it completely useless in low light situations. Or any light that isn't direct sunlight.
Shadow_7 is offline  
post #4 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lisame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It is slow motion and Motion analysis. When filming moving objects, children playing etc then 120fps looks more "emotional" yet it is also motion analysis for looking at how come things work.

The Casio Exlim FH100 is a camera not a camcorder.

I find it suprising that camcorders can do 448 x 336 (240 fps/8Mbps), so you would expect them to be able to do 720x480 120fps/8Mbps. Yet they don't.

Is there a reason for this?
lisame is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 06:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Shadow_7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Most times they're trying not to exceed the write speed of the flash cards. Which is generally why they only do high fps for a few seconds. Plus they don't want to compete with their own pro line of video devices.
Shadow_7 is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lisame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Your last one is definitely spot on! They don't want to compete with their own pro-line.

I have looked at camcorders without internal hdd/flash for around 300 euro and around 600 euro and find it surprising that there is not much difference. Sometimes the 300 euro versions have more feature.

Why can't a Sony/JVC/Panasonic take a Sanyo FH1, add stabilization, add some features and bring it on the market for 500 euro's.

Or why are there no camcorders with buildt-in 32GB 100Mbit/s memory so they can have higher write speed. I mean you can buy a 64GB SDD with 200Mbit read and 120Mbit write for 130 euros. So why not take something like the Sanyo FH1 + stabilization + 32GB fast SDD + better shutter and add the ability for 120fps at 480p for around 700 euro's.

Technically it is possible, so why don't they do it.
lisame is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 07:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
fishywishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 19
fujifilm hs10 does 640x480 at 120fps
fishywishy is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lisame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you fishywishy, but that is also not a camcorder.

The LG Viewty KU990 phone from 2007! does 120fps at 320x240. Yet a 2010 camcorder cannor do 120fps at 480p. It's very strange to me.
lisame is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 04:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Shadow_7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Is there any reason that you have to have a camcorder form factor? Special lenses that would otherwise throw the balance off? Rails that only work with a traditional form factor. The barrel shape makes it easier to aim? Underwater enclosure? Covert operation?

I think that we're still lacking in certain technologies to make it available at the consumer level. At least at an affordable price. Maybe when CPUs exceed 4GHz per core. Maybe when 1TB HDDs are the size of a deck of cards and $10 and RELIABLE.
Shadow_7 is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 04:25 PM
Member
 
ronaldkwok's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Sanyo HD2000 (and also the FH1) does the common 240fps at 448x336 and also 600fps that drops to a lowly 192x108. The clips are limited to 10 seconds each but playback for 40 sec and 100 sec respectively to give the slow motion feel. Not very good quality for serious work but good for fun.
ronaldkwok is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 08-07-2010, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lisame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
@Shadow_7

I wondering if we are lacking the technology or lacking a demand/need of just lacking vision from the side of the manufactures.

No covert operation, just wondering. Same as I wonder why there is a TV, there is a mediaplayer (such as a this one), there are hard drives. Yet there is not one TV maker that combines them.

The technology would fit in a TV! It already exists! The player costs 100 usd (built-in probably less) a low noice 250GB HDD is only 35USD, a 64GB SDD is 130 USD. So why not offer it as a part of your premium range + wifi! There is demand, the technology exists and it would only make a 2500 USD premium TV, just 150-200 USD more expensive.


The same is with 120fps 480p recording. Everything already exists and they could put lower resolution 120fps recording in a phone, 3 years ago. So why not in a "amateur" camcorder.

I guess I won't find the answer here.

Thanks everyone.
lisame is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 10:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Shadow_7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Like some cars, the parts of the car are worth more than the whole of the car. Unlike computers where the opposite seems true.

The technology does exist. I've had a $100 TV with built in DVD player. Lasted about a year before it started making weird noises. Optical drives are a bit wonky too, the lens gets dirty, the motors wear out. So to some degree you want separate items. Just like the mic, the cable, interface, and the computer/recorder are all separated. Although some mics do combine some of that into a nifty little USB cable, but introduce a lot of limits in doing so. Latency, no monitoring, and otherwise cheap components all around, except for maybe the mic element.

We could do lots of things. Including cloning a human. Existing technology today for all intents. But there are some things better left unexplored. Like turning the earths surface molten with WW III. Existing technology since the end of WW II. Way before I was born.

I doubt we'll see it anytime soon IMO. Life is boring enough at regular speed.
Shadow_7 is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
lisame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
@Shadow_7
Comparing cloning humans to a camera that does 480p at 120fps is a bit far

Guess I have to wait a few years, when the average camcorder does 4K video, there will be 720p 120fps camcorders
lisame is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 08-08-2010, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jogiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Anything less than 1080p is lame IMHO. Get the Panasonic HDC-TM700 and play the 1080p60 videos in slow motion on the PS3 with audio and it will knock your socks off. Here is a video I just uploaded to Vimeo that have the native 1080p60 188.89mb file to try for the next week.
http://vimeo.com/13983243
jogiba is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 08-09-2010, 03:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Shadow_7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisame View Post

@Shadow_7
Comparing cloning humans to a camera that does 480p at 120fps is a bit far

Guess I have to wait a few years, when the average camcorder does 4K video, there will be 720p 120fps camcorders

Perhaps, but we've been to the moon with computers with less processing power than your optical mouse. And that was 40+ years ago. And yet we still don't have a 1080p60 WATERPROOF camcorder yet. At least not without throwing it in a third party enclosure. And otherwise giving up access to most of it's controls.
Shadow_7 is offline  
Reply Camcorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off