Best Camcorder for Web Streaming - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 08-10-2010, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Doesn't seem to be much discussion here regarding high quality web streaming of video content. I guess You Tube, etc. has made things too easy. However, when better compression techniques are used on a dedicated personal server, I have seen some extraordinary results.

I've been using a Canon Vixia HF-10, one of the first AVCHD CMOS cameras. My work is outdoor "nature" work in forests and gardens with a lot of walking and panning. The motion blur in my camera is a problem, and the OIS is not really very good.

I was hoping that in the 2 years since the purchase of the HF-10 there is a better camera that could do a better job considering the following:

- clarity while walking and panning of forest detail is paramount.
- and in a format that works well for optimum compression and HD web streaming (either 540p or 720p). I was hoping a 60p camera might help in that regard. Or has CMOS advanced enough to improve the rolling shutter problem and blurry motion.
- good low light performance is not really necessary
- compatibility with a Mac and iMovie/FCE for basic editing is also needed.

I understand that the TM - 700 is well liked here, but unsure if the type of 60p format is an advantage if using a Mac and compressing for HD web streaming.
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post #2 of 6 Old 08-11-2010, 01:00 AM
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Well, TM700 could be great as it would make your panning smoother and more details preserved. Since you've got dedicated server, you can recode to 720/60p video for online streaming.

As for Mac, there is one extra step needed before importing to Apple's editing tools, something about Handbrake transcoding to some format FC/iMovie recognize, but I'm not Mac user so I didn't bother to remember it all. But you can edit on Mac, and that's what really matters. You just have one extra step in your workflow.

I can recommend TM700, as it makes some great videos. I've shot a sunset the other day, and some nature videos just before & after sunset, including water surface (lake), and even in these lower light situations it works really well. I've shot some nature footage at really cloudy weather, worked great as well. And on a nice sunny day.. there's no talking. It's simply beautiful video.
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post #3 of 6 Old 08-14-2010, 02:06 PM
 
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You can also just shoot 1080i60 with the TM700, and you don't have to do the extra step of dealing with the 1080p60 off the camera. The 1080i60 imports directly into final cut pro (and I assume, but don't know, final cut express also).

The TM700 does have a rolling shutter, but it is very very fast. I have not seen it on any of the footage I have shot so far that is reasonable. I was curious about it, and went looking, and the only place I found it was on a shot out the side of a car going down the freeway at 70mph. You could see very nearby telephone poles and some freeway walls did lean at an angle because of the roll, but it's not the kind of footage you would use, and it was at a speed that most of the things were going by so fast they were basically a blur that showed up for one, maybe two frames. So even if you were using footage like that, it really wouldn't be much of an issue.

It actually is surprisingly good with the other bad place shutter shows up which is with flash photography. I'd say that probably 75% of the flashes I captured were captured by the whole frame. That's one thing that you'll see, even in commercial films shot digitally (I don't know why they sometimes don' bother to fix that, it's not hard!), where only have the frame or like odd chunks of the frame will show a camera flash but not the rest.

Also, important to note that Youtube, Vimeo etc are NOT streaming video. They are progressive download. To a lay person it's just 'streaming' you video online, but it is not a live stream. Chunks or the entire file is basically downloaded and you can pause as it continues to download. This has a significant impact on the type of compression, because you can use and take advantage of variable bitrate compression that you generally would not be using with literal live-stream or webstreaming where it's basically a live feed with minimal buffer and it isn't a progressive download situation where you're basically downloading the entire file and then playing it back using the youtube player or vimeo, whatnot.

Shooting 1080p60 would be mostly advantageous if you wanted to do 1/2 speed or other slow-motion and just wanted more frames there since it's twice 1080i60. Otherwise for web distribution, I frankly don't see the point. 1080p60 is not really a distributable standard at this point. Unless there is a very particular production reason you want to use it, IMO probably not that big a deal. The comparable cameras from sony, the 550, and the canon S21 don't support 1080p60, and IMO I would make a purchase decision based on camera features and capabilities and your needs moreso than 1080p60 unless of course you foresee utilizing 60p for particular reasons.

Also, you should spend some time googling and such, there are dozens of videos and comparisons and such shot with all these cameras available on youtube, vimeo, etc. They, being more compressed web content, are indicative but not fully of the camera's capabilities. Still, there are many very very useful things you can learn about the cameras by watching these various videos. Just beware not to pay too much attention to compression artifacts, which aren't really the cameras fault in that context.
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post #4 of 6 Old 08-15-2010, 05:15 AM
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I can't agree with much that was said above. First of all,don't buy TM700 if you'll shoot 60i. Get other cam. Next, OP said to have his own hosting and thus will use settings of his own. Next, web streaming IS streaming. It's now LIVE,but it IS stream. And web streams are mostly viewed on PC as progressive video. Why shoot interlaced if goal is progressive viewing. Than,as much as I see, OP wants smooth motion video. That's 60p's best atribute,and is where 60i mostly fails. Etc, etc
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post #5 of 6 Old 08-15-2010, 03:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxZg View Post

I can't agree with much that was said above. First of all,don't buy TM700 if you'll shoot 60i. Get other cam.

Why? Seems like totally bizarre advice. Have a reason for that?

Quote:
Next, OP said to have his own hosting and thus will use settings of his own. Next, web streaming IS streaming. It's now LIVE,but it IS stream. And web streams are mostly viewed on PC as progressive video.

What? Can you rephrase this in decipherable english?


Quote:
Why shoot interlaced if goal is progressive viewing.

Because it's simpler. And you can't shoot 1080p30 with this camera, or many other cameras.

Quote:
Than,as much as I see, OP wants smooth motion video. That's 60p's best atribute,and is where 60i mostly fails. Etc, etc

Not if you're just going to drop it back to 1080p30 anyway (the benefit would only be significant if you're doing a lot of slow-motion). It's not too dissimilar from shooting 1080i60 and deinterlacing that to 1080p30. There can be a slight resolution loss this way, but the motion handling will be rather comparable, and the resolution loss is kind of irrelevant in this context.
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post #6 of 6 Old 08-16-2010, 06:11 AM
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I'd love to explain in length,but it's just too much typing for mobile browsing :-P as for "bizzare" advice to not buy TM700 for 60i,its simple. 60i has much lower bitrate for encoding,resulting in artifacts. If 60p isn't needed buy 60i cam with good PQ,you'll get better recording. Shooting just 60i with TM700 is like buying sports car to drive it in the mud and rubble.. Oh,and who said to drop to 30p? Man has his own streaming server/tools,and can thus stream 720/60p!!
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