Panasonic TM700 ► Looking for a Shallow DoF adapter / lens - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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[NOTE: This forum won't let me use URL's until I've made 3 posts, and this is my first, so...]

Okay, so from what I've read, attaining a shallow depth-of-field on the TM700 is tricky. I am making an independent film with action scenes and some shots would just be cooler with a shallow DoF.

I have looked around a bit and found that DoF adapters generally cost upwards of a few hundred dollars. I saw some stuff about "vibrating" adapters and some DIY stuff, but I don't trust my ability to make my own adapter and I'm not really sure how a vibrating adapter works. I looked at Brevis, Letus, RedRock, SGPro, and Googled quite a few forums.

The best price I could find from companies dedicated to producing DoF adapters were from SGPro at around $600, then the Letus35 Mini at about $700, but the best overall price I found was the $200 EnCinema 35mm adapter from Vid-Atlantic. You can find videos about it on Youtube. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. Is Vid-Atlantic trustworthy? Does their adapter work well? Are they sturdy? I'm a full-time college student so I have a meager amount of spending money, therefore I'm looking for the cheapest I can find - but I don't want it to break after one use either!

Also, I'm interested in a wide-angle lens. I know some wide-angle lenses can be as cheap as $55-60, anyone know of any low-priced but good lenses that can get that nice wider look?

Lastly, if you know of any kind of cheap and easy solution to the flipped lcd screen problem, please share it with me. I know there are external lcd screens and the like, and you can also have someone hack it for you and implant a switch... I'd just like to know my options with everything!

Also, Please refrain from telling me "you get what you pay for" ... I know that. But I also know you can get a good deal on stuff and some things are over-priced. Also, I like my brand new TM700, so don't tell me to just sell it and, "get something else, perhaps a DSLR, if you want to achieve DoF" - I'm not interested in any philosophy or anything like that - just the best bang for my buck.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:25 PM
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These days people use DSLRs for this stuff.
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post #3 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:29 PM
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Here is a better idea. I have this on order and also have the TM700 and GH2.
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post #4 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
Here is a better idea.
I hope this is not a scam.
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post #5 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann
I hope this is not a scam.
It's from Panasonic direct. Not a scam.
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post #6 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:51 PM
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I don't get it! the guy wants an answer for his TM700 and specifically stated he didn't want to buy a DSLR. So why tell him to buy a DSLR?
On his budget it's probably not an option even if it might be the better choice if money wasn't an issue.
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post #7 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_man View Post
It's from Panasonic direct. Not a scam.
Nice. But I bet these are not hackable.
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post #8 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 04:28 PM
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For $375 I don't care since I also have the GH2 and TM700.
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post #9 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

For $375 I don't care since I also have the GH2 and TM700.

Well, if you are not going to use it in 24p mode then fine.
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post #10 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Well, if you are not going to use it in 24p mode then fine.

Most GH13's from what I have seen are used in 75mb/sec 30p MJPEG and not AVCHD.

Red One, Canon 5D Mk II, and Panasonic Lumix GH1 Footage Comparison
http://vimeo.com/5981422
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post #11 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

I don't get it! the guy wants an answer for his TM700 and specifically stated he didn't want to buy a DSLR. So why tell him to buy a DSLR?
On his budget it's probably not an option even if it might be the better choice if money wasn't an issue.

Thanks dude

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post #12 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 07:20 PM
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Rickswan,

Search about DIY 35mm adapter. I will be building one sometime this year.
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post #13 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Rickswan,

Search about DIY 35mm adapter. I will be building one sometime this year.

Hmm... this is the thing, I don't do much handyman stuff, and I don't know much about the workings of lenses and the like to have confidence in this matter. I was able to make a DIY steadycam but that is a more... barbaric sort of project when compared to camera lenses and such. I don't want to buy any parts then accidentally break them! I guess what I'm saying is: how difficult is it for someone in my position do do such a thing? Could I really follow it step-by-step with my lack of knowledge and have a satisfactory outcome?

If given motivation and confidence I may be swayed. Have any links to cheap projects like this?

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post #14 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 08:45 PM
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They mentioned earlier to get a dslr with video support or the diy adapter.

It depends upon the person. I had no idea I would be able to build a patio and a pergola myself. Check very detailed of the build here, http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...616658.html?75

Try it, and you'll be amazed of what you'll be able to do. I always tell myself when I do things "I can do it even if it's very difficult".
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post #15 of 83 Old 01-20-2011, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

They mentioned earlier to get a dslr with video support or the diy adapter.

It depends upon the person. I had no idea I would be able to build a patio and a pergola myself. Check very detailed of the build here, http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...616658.html?75

Try it, and you'll be amazed of what you'll be able to do. I always tell myself when I do things "I can do it even if it's very difficult".

I saw what you built - that's pretty amazing, good job! I guess it's really more a question of motivation and effort... do I spend time on what may be less altogether money but could not turn out right and waste my time... or do I spend a little more and get something of a safer bet... do I spend the time to find and choose a good and trustworthy DIY guide amongst many on the internet and then spend the time to build it (and no doubt feel very proud of myself)... or do I buy a pre-made one for a little more of my precious money? Tough decision!

oh, and I'm not getting a DSLR, at least not for a while. That's not what this thread is about!

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post #16 of 83 Old 01-21-2011, 09:00 AM
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Keep us posted! Good luck!
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post #17 of 83 Old 01-21-2011, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Keep us posted! Good luck!

Thanks! I've done research, and will continue to do so, but this is what I've found so far:

http://ezinearticles.com/?35mm-DOF-A...ne?&id=1270610 - general 35mm adapter info
http://35mmadapter.blogspot.com/ - a resource on 35mm adapters
http://www.jetsetmodels.info/tutorials.htm - Daniel's GG Holder DIY 35mm adapter tutorials
http://www.vid-atlantic.com/ - Cheapest pre-made adapter I've found, the EnCinema 35mm adapter
http://www.twoneil.com/products.html - this guy used Daniel's tutorial and made three affordable products you can buy from him. Here's a video of them: http://www.vimeo.com/2487979

Some forum threads on the issue:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?4...dapter-website
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?2...ma-35MM-Review
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122029
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?9...us-Redrock-etc

The most common DIY adapter (and first hit on Google) seems to be Daniel's DIY GG Holder 35mm adapter, and the most common cheapest already-made 35mm adapter seems to be the EnCinema 35mm adapter. Compare these videos from Youtube:

Daniel's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw9qiNRTHtM
and again here's TwoNeil's adapters made using Daniel's tutorials: http://www.vimeo.com/2487979

EnCinema
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8cWSEynOI and some sample footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKklb2wYd5A

In my opinion from perusing the sample footage on youtube, some of the EnCinema videos seem to have more vignetting, blur at the edges, speckles and somehow they just look to have less clarity than the DIY ones (although some footage from the EnCinema does seem to be fine). It may just be the filmmaker. Of course the pitfalls of a DIY project could come into play: I could make it wrong and with shipping for individual components it may end up costing even more than a purchased adapter anyway, and I have the feeling that no matter what it wouldn't look as great as a pre-made one by those who have done it before. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't have a lot of money, so I don't have money to lose on a failed project. I want it to work well the first time and every time, but be wallet-friendly as well. I also plan to get other camera accessories such as a mic, lens, lights, and an extra battery, so I want to save for those as well.

The adapters by TwoNeil may be the best of both worlds because he uses Daniel's instructions with a price comparable to EnCinema's, but I'm not sure. Other issues are that a lens with an F Stop of 1.8 or faster is supposedly needed to prevent blurring and vignetting and that non-vibrating adapters need careful maintenance to avoid dust.

One last video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBBOE...layer_embedded This guy lists some 35mm adapter drawbacks: loss of light, and of course the image orientation on the LCD monitor. But the biggest thing he suggests is that you do not build your own adapter. He says static adapters are what produce bad vignetting, and vibrating ones get rid of the dust specks. He suggests getting a rod support system too (which is more money). I'm not going to blindly trust this guy however, because it seems like A) he hasn't tried building one and looks to be rich enough to afford both a Letus adapter AND a rod support system and B) he appears to be a Letus/RedRock fanboy... then again this forum thread also has some against DIY: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?9...us-Redrock-etc. I don't want to be overly-cautious either, I just want to find my best option.

Wow, this was a long post. Okay... so Opinions? Which DIY adapter do you like best? Which pre-made? Remember, I'm trying to find the best affordable shallow depth-of-field for my TM700. Thanks!

EDIT 1/22/11 - Found this site, too. The JAG35: http://web.me.com/jehug/JAG35.com/Compare.html ... and a forum thread it's in: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...g-35mm-adapter ... going to compare this to the others

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post #18 of 83 Old 01-22-2011, 11:47 PM
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I like this one. I spoke to him. He gave me few notes. He got his from Daniel's.

http://www.vimeo.com/16746513

I also exchanged emails with Daniel. He likes Nikon focusing ring. That's what I remember. I did some research about a month ago. I've almost forgotten them.
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post #19 of 83 Old 01-23-2011, 06:22 AM
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I don't know, if it came to buying a Letus 35 or a T2i? for roughly the SAME cash??? Never mind that when you do the 35mm adapter route you lose all kinds of low light performance. And probably invert the image, which might make shooting and editing tricky.

If you're cheap like me, you get a shallower DOF at zoom. Not ideal if you're moving the camera about as stabilization becomes an issue. And perhaps not as shallow as you're wanting. But an option. One of many. You can also add lens like effects in post. Perhaps not true shallow DOF, but something in proximity of.
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post #20 of 83 Old 01-23-2011, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shadow_7 View Post

I don't know, if it came to buying a Letus 35 or a T2i? for roughly the SAME cash???

I know what you're saying, and that is why I refuse to get a Letus - I'm not paying more than I bought the camera for! If it costs a little more than $200 I can get it sooner as well. I was actually looking to get a DSLR and the T2i is one I was looking at, but I chose to get a dedicated camcorder and the TM700 is the one I chose. I have heard that some people got a secondary camera - a DSLR - but for a decent one it's just too costly for me to go that route. The T2i is $700 at the cheapest without factoring in lenses and accessories. I want to max the camera I have out accessory-wise (mics, batteries, adapter) to make it as capable as it can be.
Quote:


Never mind that when you do the 35mm adapter route you lose all kinds of low light performance. And probably invert the image, which might make shooting and editing tricky.

My buddy got a screen flip-hack, it worked really well. Of course the problem with that is the price - finding someone to hack it, then deal with the shipping and handling charges. About the low-light performance, the TM700 does deal with low light pretty well but I plan to use a great deal of lighting in my projects - it's the light, not the adapter, that makes that film look. The adapter just adds that extra layer of cool imo.

Quote:


If you're cheap like me, you get a shallower DOF at zoom. Not ideal if you're moving the camera about as stabilization becomes an issue. And perhaps not as shallow as you're wanting. But an option. One of many. You can also add lens like effects in post. Perhaps not true shallow DOF, but something in proximity of.

Now this is one thing I argued with my friend about. I said opening the iris and zooming can achieve some of the effect. I was out-argued because it becomes difficult with moving shots and never quite looks the same. Thanks for your comments!
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

I like this one. I spoke to him. He gave me few notes. He got his from Daniel's.

http://www.vimeo.com/16746513

I also exchanged emails with Daniel. He likes Nikon focusing ring. That's what I remember. I did some research about a month ago. I've almost forgotten them.

I've seen that video when I was looking online! It looks good. So you've actually contacted Daniel - his tutorials and adapters seem to be commonly referenced, which tells me they're quality. A few of the pre-made adapters you can buy, Twoneil comes to mind, are made with Daniel's specifications. I don't know if Twoneil uses Nikon focusing rings however.

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post #21 of 83 Old 01-23-2011, 01:59 PM
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The GH1 is better for 1080p video use then the T2i for half the price. Just compare the views through the viewfinder on the two when shooting video.

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post #22 of 83 Old 01-24-2011, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

The GH1 is better for 1080p video use then the T2i for half the price. Just compare the views through the viewfinder on the two when shooting video.

So you suggest me buying a GH1 huh? Now is this legitimate advice or a little product placement for Panasonic?

Here's your earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Here is a better idea. I have this on order and also have the TM700 and GH2.

Hmm... pretty cheap, except I went on the same site and checked out the same bundle. Look at the price:


Says "offer valid for purchases made through N/A" AKA No discount.

...So, how is this supposed to be a more affordable alternative to getting an adapter again?

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post #23 of 83 Old 01-25-2011, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

The GH1 is better for 1080p video use then the T2i for half the price. Just compare the views through the viewfinder on the two when shooting video.


GREAT VIDEO JOGIBA!!! Awesome shots, location, and editing. Makes me want to visit the islands even SOONER!
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post #24 of 83 Old 01-25-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickswan View Post

So you suggest me buying a GH1 huh? Now is this legitimate advice or a little product placement for Panasonic?

Here's your earlier post:

Hmm... pretty cheap, except I went on the same site and checked out the same bundle. Look at the price:


Says "offer valid for purchases made through N/A" AKA No discount.

...So, how is this supposed to be a more affordable alternative to getting an adapter again?

I received my GH1 today and the 14-42mm lens yesterday for the $375 combo price and I just checked and they still had the $375 combo deal using facebook.
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post #25 of 83 Old 01-25-2011, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

I received my GH1 today and the 14-42mm lens yesterday for the $375 combo price and I just checked and they still had the $375 combo deal using facebook.

What is the firmware version? Can it be hacked? Do you need to be a Facebook member to see the offer?

EDIT: Ok, found the same offer via EPP.

Rickswan, you should not be interested in this offer, as you specifically stated that you want a 35mm adapter.
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post #26 of 83 Old 01-25-2011, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

What is the firmware version? Can it be hacked? Do you need to be a Facebook member to see the offer?

EDIT: Ok, found the same offer via EPP.

Rickswan, you should not be interested in this offer, as you specifically stated that you want a 35mm adapter.

I must admit, with the facebook deal it is a darn good price - but Ungermann is correct that I started this thread to find out about 35mm adapters, not other cameras. I appreciate everyone's input, and I'm still looking for my best option.

UPDATE: So I've been looking around some more and found this very helpful forum thread: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?2...eferred-brands I found out a bit about the differences between static, vibrating, and spinning adapters from this thread.

I think I'm gearing my focus toward JAG35 now, as they seem to have the most affordable vibrating (and spinning) adapters I can find. Still looking though.

Here's some other dilemmas:
• my HDC-TM700 has 46mm threads, so I may need a step-down ring. Have to find that. Here's JAG's page.
• I hear a lot about rod support systems, and how you need them for adapters. Here's a thread: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?1...er-rail-system and one company: http://indisystem.com/products/indirails_pro ... this is particularly annoying because I know it's just some sticks holding it in place, yet they all seem to cost so much. I may experiment with DIY on this one, with wood or something.
• the lens to put on the other end of the adapter. I hear it should be like a 1.4 or 1.8 - something like that. here's JAG35's lens link.
• finding a flip hack for the TM700. Here's a cheap and slightly ingenious possibility: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYidv9fcJmo

So yeah. Once again, looking for the best bang for my buck with a DoF adapter for the HDC-TM700. Anybody who owns either an adapter or TM700, or who just is generally knowledgeable about either - please share your wisdom!

UPDATE: found out that JAG35 is no longer selling any of their adapters except their most expensive one, the JAG35SP which is a spinning adapter. Now looking elsewhere - unfortunate because the JAG35PRO looked very nice.

This forum backs up Jogiba's argument: http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=31335

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post #27 of 83 Old 01-26-2011, 06:56 PM
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Since you are dead set against a DSLR, why don't you buy a used 35mm adapter ? Should be tons available since pretty much everyone stopped using them in favor of DSLR's.

BTW, I have Jag35 sitting on the shelf. It's the vibrating model. Have to check the thread size.


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post #28 of 83 Old 01-26-2011, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if this is ethical, but here is a reply I got from the guys at VidAtlantic for their EnCinema adapter:
Quote:


Hi Rick,

Thanks for your interest in our adapter. Nice camera! Ive seen some amazing videos with the tm700 and am considering a purchase myself because of the 60p capability.

We've had a few tm700 users already purchase the adapter from us so I'll see if I can track down some clips.

You will definitely need a set of 46mm macro close up filters since the tm700 cant achieve macro focus close enough on the ground glass focusing screen within our adapter. This is common with some Panasonics and pretty much all JVC cameras.
On the bright side (literally) using these macro filters will lessen the vignetting and helps to brighten the overall image. We use 1 or 2 on the Canon HV30 even though it needs no macro assistance.

To answer your questions: Yes, there is a bit of vignetting and some chromatic abberation depending on the lighting situation. Also we recommend fast speed lenses (f1.2 to f2.8) for the best results.

I havent experience out of focus areas other than shallow depth of field and whats supposed to be out of focus, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And yes, you do loose light so you will need to use more light, or faster lenses. These are all issues with any 35mm adapter, even the $4000 units.

Our adapter will not make your camera shoot as clean and crisp as a RED or dslr, but it will give you a very cinematic look with shallow depth of field and selective focusing which is what makes it so much fun.

I recommend and use the Canon 50mm f1.8 E series. I found one on ebay for $45. You will need the the Nikon to EOS converter that we offer for $20.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Nik....c0.m270.l1313

Also the Canon EOS 50mm f1.8 II is a good lens as well but they sell for about $100 used and $120 new. Not much of a deal. The old Nikons were built better.


I hope this info helps. Thanks again,


Eddie

eddie@vid-atlantic.com

I post this because I want your feedback!

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post #29 of 83 Old 01-26-2011, 07:23 PM
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I just don't get it, I have the TM700 and would not touch an adapter to give me DOF like a DSLR for it with a 10ft pole when I just paid only $375 for a GH1 with 14-42mm zoom that works with a myriad of fast lenses for shallow DOF.
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post #30 of 83 Old 01-26-2011, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrosa View Post
Since you are dead set against a DSLR,
Who says I'm so steadfast against them? I was looking for a DSLR before I decided I wanted what I got instead! I may even get a DSLR yet...

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why don't you buy a used 35mm adapter ? Should be tons available since pretty much everyone stopped using them in favor of DSLR's.
More nasty language about DSLR's! I am not unfair and am trying to be impartial. I have looked up the GH1 on my favorite camera website, Camcorderinfo.com and found this. Jogiba suggested this DSLR (due to a killer deal - look above in this thread) and provided a vid. It's decent, my main beef with this camera being its low-light performance. Also, I'm not sure if it can really stack up to the TM700 as far as full 1080p 60p goes and Camcorderinfo says it gets choppy at full 1920 x 1080 HD. Then again, as Ungermann said, a lot of people seem to be suggesting the 2-camera route. I'm having trouble finding info on a good cheap 35mm adapter so this is definitely an option.

Quote:
BTW, I have Jag35 sitting on the shelf. It's the vibrating model. Have to check the thread size.
I could probably use a step-up/down ring to get it to work whatever the thread size is. It's a JAG35Pro, which is discontinued... How much are you willing to part with it for, just in case I'm interested...

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