Upcoming Sony Hx9v as a top camcorder - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. Thanks.
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post #302 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"I just shot out the window in ISO mode and in auto mode at fast moving cars and it looked identical. I'd bet that only when shooting in low light which is what it's designed for would there be any differences."

This would be interesting to test further. Do you mean that the shutter speed was the same in both modes, as indicated by the blurring of the moving vehicles (a clever idea)?

I would actually be more interested in what it does to gain in both modes. If gain is the same in Auto mode vs low light mode (in good light) than I guess it would be OK to leave it in low light mode. But frankly I'd rather leave it in Auto mode with the Assignable button for WB.

But Mark, you are correct, I don't see any evidence of being able to do this with the 9. I'll tell you this, the 100 is far easier to hold steady and to pan steady than the 9.
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post #303 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Yeah. Honestly Looked identical. No stutter indicative of a higher shutter speed for ISO mode compared to auto.


Dave, have you tried manually engaging the ND filter under different conditions as opposed to leaving it in Auto mode?
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post #304 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Dave, have you tried manually engaging the ND filter under different conditions as opposed to leaving it in Auto mode?

Can you do that in video mode? I haven't noticed it but also haven't been looking for it.
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post #305 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree, Ken - a small, light camera is more difficult to hold steady. I find it is easier to shoot sports with the GH2 than the TM900, because of the greater weight of the former (lots of need for controlled pans). But then, I can carry the Hx9v around more easily, such that there are places I would go that I could not bring the Hx100v but could the Hx9v. Trade-offs.
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post #306 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 04:36 PM
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Sorry guys, it looks like in actuality you can not adjust the 100's WB in normal video mode. Although it looks like you can adjust WB and change the settings, when you actually adjust it and hit video, that setting doesn't stick and it goes back to AWB. I deliberately set it to a 'cloudy' preset since it was easy to spot if that setting stuck, being as 'off' as it was. Instead I got a normal looking video.

Oh well.

Dave, no you can't adjust the ND filter in video mode. What else is new?

Mark, it's ironic that people strive for smaller and smaller cams and the resulting video generally suffers in some way.
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post #307 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Smallness has its uses, but it does make video more difficult as you say. I have a Sony Bloggie 3D camera that weighs practically nothing. It takes great 3D video, amazing in fact. But, it has no stabilization in 3d mode, and it is impossible to hold steady (which has even worse consequence for 3D). I have to carry around a device that weighs twice as much as and is twice the size of the camera to hold it steady.
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post #308 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Sorry guys, it looks like in actuality you can not adjust the 100's WB in normal video mode. Although it looks like you can adjust WB and change the settings, when you actually adjust it and hit video, that setting doesn't stick and it goes back to AWB. I deliberately set it to a 'cloudy' preset since it was easy to spot if that setting stuck, being as 'off' as it was. Instead I got a normal looking video.

Oh well.

Dave, no you can't adjust the ND filter in video mode. What else is new?

Mark, it's ironic that people strive for smaller and smaller cams and the resulting video generally suffers in some way.


Hi ken, I'm confused. The only time I even see the different setting icons is when ISO mode is selected. You said "normal video mode.
The manual WB Totally sticks in mine in ISO mode. I tried numerous settings. Went from white room walls to window and back and it never changed. The white walls looked a different color in every mode from proper white to orange.
In indoor mode, pic with little lightbulb icon, walls were properly white. In outdoor mode with sun symbol, walls were orange. Those icons stay on while recording so it if DID go back to AWB that would either indicate a defective camera or Sony being dishonest in saying a function existed I'd it didn't.
It totally works for me after hitting record and doesn't waver at all in mine. Not a hair.
in auto mode the walls were white. In daylight mode they were orange and once I hit record they would have gone back to white if the AWB had kicked back in.

LL
LL
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post #309 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 05:38 PM
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And always remember to have the little film frame icon selected to ensure you're in video mode. After that I picked scene mode: iso and I adjusted the WB and recorded several clips and they all looked different.
LL
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post #310 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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To summarize: There is no way to set WB in video except in "high ISO mode", a scene mode in video. No other exceptions. Period.

This was where the discussion started, and all is verified.
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post #311 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

To summarize: There is no way to set WB in video except in "high ISO mode", a scene mode in video. No other exceptions. Period.

This was where the discussion started, and all is verified.

I know, no need to get keep saying that. Ken just said once you hit record it didnt stick though. I tested it.
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post #312 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I know you know, I was just concerned about a reader going around in circles. I really do appreciate checking this one odd, but seemingly useful, mode in video.
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post #313 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 06:52 PM
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Guys, one thing, please always clarify what camera you are talking about. This thread is about HX9V, but info about HX100 is often mentioned here as well, and I for one sometimes get confused what camera you are talking about. I believe Mark has 9, Ken as well (though added a 100 to his collection recently), Dave has 100.

Sometimes I'm not sure if you are talking about 9 or 100. BTW are manual settings on both identical? Please confirm.

BTW I'm looking forward to someone hacking 9 and making it a better video camera (with more manual controls) than CX700...
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post #314 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Good points.

I believe there is only one difference in "controls" in video between the Hx100v and the Hx9v - there is a manual focus mode for the Hx100v (remember there is still spot focus control and focus tracking on the Hx9v, which is almost the same thing, and better in some instances, than just manual focus). But the Hx100v has both.
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post #315 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 07:03 PM
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Thanks Mark. Can you set HX9V into a "manual" (spot?) focus mode and be sure even in low light it will keep it and there will not be hunting or "pulsating"?
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post #316 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I know "low light" is an interest. But it is impossible to answer questions about low light without describing what you mean by low light. I have posted videos of low light tests, and then some wise guy says that wasn't really low light. Focus ability also depends crucially on the characteristics of the subject you are trying to focus on - a fluff of cotton against a white wall - no. A lump of coal against a black wall, no. A face - maybe, but depends on whether frontal or turned, and so on.

Anyway, you get what I mean. You have to try the camera out in the specific circumstances - subject and lighting condition - you have in mind to answer this.

And do not take the word, nay or good, of anyone else - their experience may not be relevant to what you want to do. I can certainly guarantee situations where no camera can hold focus!
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post #317 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 07:23 PM
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YLK, you're right. It gets confusing. They are mostly similar but I should be clearer
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post #318 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 07:44 PM
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Mark, I would consider two low light situations - one with high contrast (like one candle light tests) and one with low contrast. I guess in the latter focusing would be difficult for any camera unless an additional light beam can be used.

To me the main question is - assuming that the focus can be achieved, can the camera keep it? With manual option we just set the focus and do not have to worry that it will wander away. The problem starts when the focus cannot be kept - is there an option on HX9V to make sure the focus does not wander?
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post #319 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 07:49 PM
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Dave, it does sometimes, not to mention that when one wanders around various threads 100 can sometimes mean HX100, sometimes XF100 or FS100...
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post #320 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 07:52 PM
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This is autofocus with the hx100v in lowlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjLszUVp838&sns=em

I should have put it in manual.
If the 9 is similar I wouldn't trust it. I don't think there is manual focus on the 9
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post #321 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Hi ken, I'm confused. The only time I even see the different setting icons is when ISO mode is selected. You said "normal video mode.
The manual WB Totally sticks in mine in ISO mode. I tried numerous settings. Went from white room walls to window and back and it never changed. The white walls looked a different color in every mode from proper white to orange.
In indoor mode, pic with little lightbulb icon, walls were properly white. In outdoor mode with sun symbol, walls were orange. Those icons stay on while recording so it if DID go back to AWB that would either indicate a defective camera or Sony being dishonest in saying a function existed I'd it didn't.
It totally works for me after hitting record and doesn't waver at all in mine. Not a hair.
in auto mode the walls were white. In daylight mode they were orange and once I hit record they would have gone back to white if the AWB had kicked back in.

Yeah Dave, I was talking about it in non-ISO, regular "P" mode. I was thinking that what showed up in the 'still pix', P mode would stick when you pressed the movie button. I thought that the fact that I had assigned the custom button to WB and those WB options showed, made it valid for pressing the movie button in P mode (as opposed to the dedicated movie setting on the dial). Am I making any sense at all? Probably not.

What can I tell you, this hasn't been a very good day for me. I've been rushing around multitasking and I haven't been careful when looking over this camera.

I can see when I select the 'movie mode' and use the ISO setting that the WB options are there. I'm just concerned about the ramifications of high ISO...it gets me a bit nervous. I know you say you saw no difference, but I wonder if there's some way to tell what the ISO value is with the ISO mode vs using no scene selection.

The bottom line is that so far, I'm impressed with the pictures (by far its main purpose for us) and the video is quite nice. I still think the 9 is a bit sharper in the video mode for some reason, but the overall look of the 100's video is quite smooth, if a bit soft at WA. It does seem to sharpen as you begin to zoom though.
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post #322 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

To summarize: There is no way to set WB in video except in "high ISO mode", a scene mode in video. No other exceptions. Period.

This was where the discussion started, and all is verified.

Yup. Sorry if I led people astray, but it's been that kind of day.
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post #323 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 08:10 PM
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We all have 'em.

Yeah I agree that where the hx100 shines in further into to zoom and it's amazing all the way.
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post #324 of 419 Old 06-01-2011, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah Dave, I was talking about it in non-ISO, regular "P" mode. I was thinking that what showed up in the 'still pix', P mode would stick when you pressed the movie button. I thought that the fact that I had assigned the custom button to WB and those WB options showed, made it valid for pressing the movie button in P mode (as opposed to the dedicated movie setting on the dial). Am I making any sense at all? Probably not.

What can I tell you, this hasn't been a very good day for me. I've been rushing around multitasking and I haven't been careful when looking over this camera.

I can see when I select the 'movie mode' and use the ISO setting that the WB options are there. I'm just concerned about the ramifications of high ISO...it gets me a bit nervous. I know you say you saw no difference, but I wonder if there's some way to tell what the ISO value is with the ISO mode vs using no scene selection.

The bottom line is that so far, I'm impressed with the pictures (by far its main purpose for us) and the video is quite nice. I still think the 9 is a bit sharper in the video mode for some reason, but the overall look of the 100's video is quite smooth, if a bit soft at WA. It does seem to sharpen as you begin to zoom though.

Ken,

So do you own both the HX9 and the HX100 now?
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post #325 of 419 Old 06-02-2011, 03:43 AM
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Ken,

So do you own both the HX9 and the HX100 now?

Yup. Pretty sick, no? I thought maybe we'd sell the HX9 if the HX100 continues to work out, but my wife would rather sell the GH2 if she really continues to like the 100. She likes the idea of holding on to a really small digicam. The trouble is the GH2 is really superb in low light and I doubt the HX100 can touch it (I haven't had the time to test that).

We don't really use the GH2 for video, but i probably prefer the HX100's video since it's more artifact-free although not as poppy as the GH2. The HX100 also handles a bit more like a camcorder given its power zoom and better autofocus.

I picked it up only because my friend called me to tell me one BB store had 3 in and he had just bought one. I guess this is a form of an addiction.
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post #326 of 419 Old 06-02-2011, 04:26 AM
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Shhhhhhhh, don't say that word!

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post #327 of 419 Old 06-02-2011, 05:16 AM
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Just returned from the Sony flag store here and Shanghai, shot video with both HX9 and CX700 (yes, the best of the best of Sony's consumer camcorders). Simply kept them together and walked around the store, had also a look at the street, it was getting dark.
Both were at 50p mode, auto.

Then watched both videos on two identical TV sets, placed next to each other.
Also did some frame to frame comparison.

The IQ of 9 was slightly better - sharper - then 700. It had less noise, probably because of stronger noise reduction. On the other hand 700 had quite a lot of noise, but still did not resolve more detail then 9. Stabilization of 700 was clearly superior.
Focus seemed identical - not much hunting on any of them.

Verdict - no doubt 9 presents real value for money and if one is into shooting in full auto, then I'd go for it without a thought. I guess 700 shines when turned to manual, but am not sure by how much it would outperform 9.
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post #328 of 419 Old 06-02-2011, 05:29 AM
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Even the 700 has a crippled manual mode. You cannot control much at the same time. If you set shutter speed you cannot control iris etc. The fact that they do this in a $1299 cam is ludicrous
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post #329 of 419 Old 06-02-2011, 05:39 AM
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Dave, exactly. I wrote it with a tongue in the cheek, I'm aware CX700 does not offer much when it comes to manual controls.

On another note - here in China HF G10 costs about the same as CX700, so the choice would be easy - 9 for auto, G10 for manual geeks.
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post #330 of 419 Old 06-02-2011, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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"This is autofocus with the hx100v in lowlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjLszUVp838&sns=em"

The question is whether selective spot focus, with tracking, would have done better than just autofocus. Selective spot focus tells the cmarea what to lock focus on, and if the subject moves it will keep focus on that subject. With a stationary camera and a moving subject, tracking focus is better than manual focus.

I assume in this example, tracking/selective spot focus was not used.
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