Got My Panasonic SD600 Yesterday - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 02-26-2011, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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And so far, so good. I have no problem with the fan noise. If I have my ear practically right up to the fan, yes I can hear a noise, but it isn't picked up on the video clips. I like the size of the cam, it's smaller than my HS250 and it will definitely be more portable. It fits in my hand nicely. I do get some "bondi blue" on my blue skies but even that is not too bad. My bedroom decor is mainly blue and the blues appear to be just as they are on the videos.

I have a question. I will be doing a lot of filming through a window. I noticed today when I tried out the camcorder is that when I shoot through a closed window, the video seems to be kind of distorted, like waves. I wish I could describe it better. I guess the best I can describe it is similar to it being a very hot day and the sun is beating down on the ground and you can see the heat beating off the ground. I hope you know what I mean. It looks worse when I play it back on HD Writer 2.1, If I play the video back in WMP or Splash, it doesn't look as bad. If I record in the house, or outside there's no problem. I had the same problem with the TM60 that I returned to Best Buy the other day. I used full auto and shot in HA mode.

Any advice for improved video when you have to shoot through at window?

Thanks for any advice/suggestions
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post #2 of 13 Old 02-26-2011, 09:13 PM
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Well, I have never had the particular problem, so I cant really say i have any solid suggestions, but I can think of many things that may cause it.

-Some windows have gaseous layers in between the double panes.
-In car windows there is often a variety of patterning-from tint and uv protection, and show up when I wear my oakley sunglasses...they look like dots, though some are different...but invisible otherwise. It is possible that your windows have some sort of uv protection built in? Perhaps?
-The window could be dirty I would say this is my personal number 1 problem when shooting through a window.
-Perhaps the window has some malfunction in production?

Eitherway, the most likely solution is going to come about via trial and error on your end. I recommend you switch to manual and see what adjusting the focus can do. If it is something such as a gaseous layer, UV layer, or dirty, then it is possible that this layer is throwing off the auto focus.

If you cant bypass the problem with manual focus, then it is possible that various shutter speeds/iris combination will get the job done, depending on what the exact problem is.

If all that fails, roll down the window At least you know it is not a problem with the camcorder itself.

EDIT: I guess it could have to do with glare as well. ND filters are used when shooting at lakes, etc, as you probably know. Perhaps this same principle could apply here?

Can I ask what you will be shooting?
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post #3 of 13 Old 02-28-2011, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

Well, I have never had the particular problem, so I cant really say i have any solid suggestions, but I can think of many things that may cause it.

-Some windows have gaseous layers in between the double panes.
-In car windows there is often a variety of patterning-from tint and uv protection, and show up when I wear my oakley sunglasses...they look like dots, though some are different...but invisible otherwise. It is possible that your windows have some sort of uv protection built in? Perhaps?
-The window could be dirty I would say this is my personal number 1 problem when shooting through a window.
-Perhaps the window has some malfunction in production?

Eitherway, the most likely solution is going to come about via trial and error on your end. I recommend you switch to manual and see what adjusting the focus can do. If it is something such as a gaseous layer, UV layer, or dirty, then it is possible that this layer is throwing off the auto focus.

If you cant bypass the problem with manual focus, then it is possible that various shutter speeds/iris combination will get the job done, depending on what the exact problem is.

If all that fails, roll down the window At least you know it is not a problem with the camcorder itself.

EDIT: I guess it could have to do with glare as well. ND filters are used when shooting at lakes, etc, as you probably know. Perhaps this same principle could apply here?

Can I ask what you will be shooting?


Workingman, I don't even know what an ND filter is but I have put UV filters on my cams in the past to protect the lens.

You gave very good suggestions I could try. I have a feeling that it's a combination of the HD 2.1 software and the window. DH told me the windows are double paned so that combined with the angle of the sun could be causing the problem.

I also tried removing the SD card from the camcorder, and putting it in the card slot on my computer and opening the video in WMP and wow, what an improvement in watching the video, almost no wavy lines on the building behind my house that I was shooting. Same thing if I open the clips in Splash.

I live behind a church and I have a bird feeder in the backyard. Since there are no more large trees in the backyard, more of the building is visible and it looked distorted. I will be shooting different birds (with the camera, of course ) that visit the feeder, sometimes we get unusual birds that are just passing through. I also have pet birds, parakeets and cockatiels and they are also very entertaining, especially the parakeets. That's why it's important for me to have a camcorder that has excellent quality in auto mode and for indoor shooting because you never know when these little guys are going to do something funny and I need to be able to capture it quickly.
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post #4 of 13 Old 02-28-2011, 06:27 PM
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Here you go:
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post #5 of 13 Old 02-28-2011, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Here you go:



Thank you ymarker That was my next step, but you beat me to it
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post #6 of 13 Old 02-28-2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ladyblue627 View Post

Workingman, I don't even know what an ND filter is but I have put UV filters on my cams in the past to protect the lens.

You gave very good suggestions I could try. I have a feeling that it's a combination of the HD 2.1 software and the window. DH told me the windows are double paned so that combined with the angle of the sun could be causing the problem.

I also tried removing the SD card from the camcorder, and putting it in the card slot on my computer and opening the video in WMP and wow, what an improvement in watching the video, almost no wavy lines on the building behind my house that I was shooting. Same thing if I open the clips in Splash.

I live behind a church and I have a bird feeder in the backyard. Since there are no more large trees in the backyard, more of the building is visible and it looked distorted. I will be shooting different birds (with the camera, of course ) that visit the feeder, sometimes we get unusual birds that are just passing through. I also have pet birds, parakeets and cockatiels and they are also very entertaining, especially the parakeets. That's why it's important for me to have a camcorder that has excellent quality in auto mode and for indoor shooting because you never know when these little guys are going to do something funny and I need to be able to capture it quickly.

I dont think you will need an ND filter for your application.

However, if you have not, buy a mini HDMI cable, get a cheapo 3 or 4 dollar one, though some are slower than others, so it may take a minute to ensure you get the appropriate cable. If I get time I will send over a recommendation.

If you have not done it yet, you will LOVE the video via HDMI.

Also, I am guessing you use a tripod when filming the birds? This is the perfect camcorder for that application in 1080p60 though, it will be incredibly sharp, with beautiful images.
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post #7 of 13 Old 02-28-2011, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyblue627 View Post

I have a question. I will be doing a lot of filming through a window. I noticed today when I tried out the camcorder is that when I shoot through a closed window, the video seems to be kind of distorted, like waves. I wish I could describe it better. I guess the best I can describe it is similar to it being a very hot day and the sun is beating down on the ground and you can see the heat beating off the ground. I hope you know what I mean. It looks worse when I play it back on HD Writer 2.1, If I play the video back in WMP or Splash, it doesn't look as bad. If I record in the house, or outside there's no problem. I had the same problem with the TM60 that I returned to Best Buy the other day. I used full auto and shot in HA mode.

Any advice for improved video when you have to shoot through at window?

Thanks for any advice/suggestions


Perhaps it's a rolling shutter effect? Here is a video (not mine) does it sort of look like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaDrS-yzIE
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post #8 of 13 Old 03-01-2011, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

I dont think you will need an ND filter for your application.

However, if you have not, buy a mini HDMI cable, get a cheapo 3 or 4 dollar one, though some are slower than others, so it may take a minute to ensure you get the appropriate cable. If I get time I will send over a recommendation.

If you have not done it yet, you will LOVE the video via HDMI.

Also, I am guessing you use a tripod when filming the birds? This is the perfect camcorder for that application in 1080p60 though, it will be incredibly sharp, with beautiful images.


I have a mini HDMI cable and I love to play back the video on our TV, it's pretty nice and smooth.

I don't use a tripod when I'm filming the birds I just try to stay as steady as I can. I'm sure the tripod would be a big help though, but I have to say, with the camcorders I've had and used in the past, the Panasonics seem to have the best image stabilization, better than Sony, Canon, or JVC which are other camcorders I own.

The "effect" I'm having with the video I mentioned earlier in this thread seems to disappear when I play the video on my computer in full screen mode, picture is very smooth. But once I reduce the size of the video that effect comes back again. I guess you can compare it to looking through a screen door. I also don't have the problem when I play the video on our 42" LCD TV. It shows up the worst on the HD Writer 2.1 software when I play it back. If I play the video on wmp or Splash, no problem.
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post #9 of 13 Old 03-01-2011, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Perhaps it's a rolling shutter effect? Here is a video (not mine) does it sort of look like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaDrS-yzIE


No it doesn't look anything like that, it sort of looks like you're looking through a screen door. When I click the video to "full screen" the effect disappears.

Thanks for the reply though.
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post #10 of 13 Old 03-01-2011, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Perhaps it's a rolling shutter effect? Here is a video (not mine) does it sort of look like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaDrS-yzIE

Not sure what that guy did, but I've seen many videos shot with CMOS that didn't look like anything like that. First off it looks like he smeared vasoline on the lens of the Z7 and the mount for that camera simply doesn't look nearly as steady as the one for the Z1. Jello effect or not, it's easy to see the Z7 is sustaining considerably more vibrations than the Z1.
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post #11 of 13 Old 03-02-2011, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ladyblue627 View Post
The "effect" I'm having with the video I mentioned earlier in this thread seems to disappear when I play the video on my computer in full screen mode, picture is very smooth. But once I reduce the size of the video that effect comes back again. I guess you can compare it to looking through a screen door. I also don't have the problem when I play the video on our 42" LCD TV. It shows up the worst on the HD Writer 2.1 software when I play it back. If I play the video on wmp or Splash, no problem.
Since you only see it when you play it back at a reduced size and only with certain programs I would guess that it's just a re-sizing artifact caused by those programs and that it has nothing to do with your clips. I have seen a screen-door effect (regularly spaced horizontal and vertical "lines" that are darker than the rest of the picture) in some still pictures that have been reduced in size. Naturally, I wouldn't use a program that did that.
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post #12 of 13 Old 03-02-2011, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AlenK View Post
Since you only see it when you play it back at a reduced size and only with certain programs I would guess that it's just a re-sizing artifact caused by those programs and that it has nothing to do with your clips. I have seen a screen-door effect (regularly spaced horizontal and vertical "lines" that are darker than the rest of the picture) in some still pictures that have been reduced in size. Naturally, I wouldn't use a program that did that.
I agree with you about the resizing artifact, it only happens when the video opens in a smaller size not on a full screen video.

When I went to google to look up 'screen door effect", that was something I should have looked up first before I used that term. It's not screen door effect either. Just a resizing artifact like you mentioned. Thanks for your comments.
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post #13 of 13 Old 03-02-2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Not sure what that guy did, but I've seen many videos shot with CMOS that didn't look like anything like that. First off it looks like he smeared vasoline on the lens of the Z7 and the mount for that camera simply doesn't look nearly as steady as the one for the Z1. Jello effect or not, it's easy to see the Z7 is sustaining considerably more vibrations than the Z1.
The guy definitely had an agenda. And he couldn't take criticism - note how he disabled comments. But he's a professional videographer, so he must be right.

I should add, the jello effect is real but not all CMOS camcorders are equally affected. It's all down to readout speed. Those cameras with faster readout speed will suffer less. It would be neat to see a shoot-out between different camcorders. Throw some CMOS DSLRs (and mirrorless) into the mix too. Heck, it would be nice if serious camcorder review sites would start to add some sort of test for this. It _IS_ an issue.
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