The Official Panasonic HDC-TM900 Owners Thread - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 1366 Old 12-16-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Precisely. Some settings like WB can be set back to auto while in manual mode. Iris can be set to auto by selecting/changing shutter speed. Shutter speed cannot be set to auto without going back to full Auto mode.

Unhappy with WB.
I'm surprised that the camera does not handle common indoor lighting like fluorescent lamps (tube lights) and compact fluorescent lamps. The pictures are too yellow.
Unfortunately, the camera stores only one AutoWB setting (where you point to a white surface and set the WB) and my house has rooms with these lights. I have to constantly adjust the WB while shooting indoors.
I wish the camera had ways to store more than one WB setting (being able to custom name them would be a bonus).
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post #872 of 1366 Old 12-16-2011, 06:38 PM
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I agree with this assessment of the alledged fan noise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjeO5Bf-lLk
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post #873 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 06:29 AM
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The OIS on the TM900 is amazing, especially when used at full telephoto (420mm) and using iZoom to get 700mm. These are frame grabs from handheld 108060p video at 420mm and 700mm, respectively. Shutter speed was 1/60th, so any camera movement would have sigificantly reduced sharpness (blur).



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post #874 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 12:46 PM
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Exactly one of the reasons why I purchased the TM900 Mark. Good hand held stabilization at full zooms for better frame grabs.

I wanted to ask if you have imported 1080/60p TM900 clips into Sony's updated PMB software and created AVCHD 2.0 blu-rays? Does anyone know if PMB 5.8 accepts TM900 1080/60p files?

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post #875 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 03:06 PM
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The latest version of PMB accepts TM900 clips, and you can even edit them (trim). But it did not allow me to merge them to make a video.

HD Writer AE 3.0 allows you to trim and merge clips to make videos that are totally glitch-free and with no re-encoding. The software, unlike PMB, also has a set of transitions between clips that can be used.

This video was made using HD Writer; my first use of the software. The downloadable video is thus original quality.

http://vimeo.com/33826041

Birds, turtles, a fish frenzy, graduates, a model, soccer, lily pads, flowers.

Intelligent telephoto mode used (700mm).

108060p, manual mode except WB, ND filter.
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post #876 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 03:22 PM
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I don't think that AVCHD disks support 1080p. As far as I know, they do 1080i.

Is there ANY solution (software, hardware) that creates 1080p optical disks that would play on a blue ray player?

Until I get that (or the WD media player), what's the best way to play 1080p recordings?
Through the TM900?

What method would I use to copy my archived 1080p clips on to my TM900?
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post #877 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 03:30 PM
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When I connect the camera to the PC, the software take a long time to "Register" the data on the camera before it can copy the clips to the PC.

Is that normal? What is it doing when "registering" whatever it is registering?

Aloke
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post #878 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The latest version of PMB accepts TM900 clips, and you can even edit them (trim). But it did not allow me to merge them to make a video.

HD Writer AE 3.0 allows you to trim and merge clips to make videos that are totally glitch-free and with no re-encoding. The software, unlike PMB, also has a set of transitions between clips that can be used.

This video was made using HD Writer; my first use of the software. The downloadable video is thus original quality.

http://vimeo.com/33826041

Birds, turtles, a fish frenzy, graduates, a model, soccer, lily pads, flowers.

Intelligent telephoto mode used (700mm).

108060p, manual mode except WB, ND filter.

Thanks Mark for the PMB info. That's a bummer that it did not let you make a movie with the TM900's files..oh well. HD Writer's capabilities have improved, so I'll check that out when the time comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

I don't think that AVCHD disks support 1080p. As far as I know, they do 1080i.

Is there ANY solution (software, hardware) that creates 1080p optical disks that would play on a blue ray player?

Until I get that (or the WD media player), what's the best way to play 1080p recordings?
Through the TM900?

What method would I use to copy my archived 1080p clips on to my TM900?

AVCHD 2.0 supports 1080/60p disc's. But you need a device that supports AVCHD 2.0 disc's. Sony Blu-Ray Players are the only devices that I know of that currently support AVCHD 2.0 disc's. I believe their line of *80 series BD players will do so with a firmware update installed on the Blu-Ray player.

You can get a Sony blu-ray player to play back the native TM900 files via HD, or flash drive thru the USB port on the BD player. I don't know of any other manufacturers that support the 1080/60p files but I think Panasonic or others might have BD players that do support 1080/60p files via USB. I just don't know of any off hand.

The WD Live products supposedly support 1080/60p playback so you could give them a try. Just make sure that wherever you purchase from they have a good return policy if it doesn't work, or your not happy with the product.

I have not tried to copy files back to the TM900 for playback, but am pretty sure it can be done. Search here for the Panasonic TM700 thread and you should be able find out how to do that in the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

When I connect the camera to the PC, the software take a long time to "Register" the data on the camera before it can copy the clips to the PC.

Is that normal? What is it doing when "registering" whatever it is registering?

Aloke

Yes, that is normal. It is registering/reading all the files before copying. If you have a large amount of data/files it could take some time.

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post #879 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 04:51 PM
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I have a Sony PS3 slim. Will that play AVCHD 2 disks? Will it play the 1080p files off the USB port on the PS3?

Edit: Yes to both.

How do I write such disks (I have a DVD writer and HD Writer AE, Nero 11, Adobe Premiere Elements 9)?

Edit: I still need an answer to this one :-)

Thanks for all your help.
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post #880 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

I have a Sony PS3 slim. Will that play AVCHD 2 disks? Will it play the 1080p files off the USB port on the PS3?

How do I write such disks (I have a DVD writer and HD Writer AE, Nero 11, Adobe Premiere Elements 9)?

Thanks for all your help.

No problem..your welcome.

No..the PS3 slim "will not" play AVCHD 2.0 yet, I read that it will be getting that capability with a firmware update in the future, so lets hope so. It certainly would make my life much easier.

The PS3 currently will not play the 1080/60p files of the TM900. It will until the bitrate gets too high on the files and will bog down during playback, making the video look un-natural.

You need software that writes AVCHD 2.0 compliant disc's. Sony is the only one so far that offer's software to do this, but more will follow. You can be certain of this.

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post #881 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 05:23 PM
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I took a 10 minute long 1080p clip, copied it to a USB thumb drive and it played fine on my PS3 slim.
The clip was made by combining 3 clips in HD Writer AE, each recorded in 1080p. I am assuming that output of such editing in HD Writer will maintain the video format ...

Edit: The file that I played on my PS3 was indeed 1080p. Just verified with HDWriterAE.

PS: If I play 1080i or 1080p clips on my PC in Windows Media Player, I get a BSOD in Windows 7 !! It crashes my video driver (ATI Radeon).
The files play fine in VLC Media Player.
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post #882 of 1366 Old 12-17-2011, 08:52 PM
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My Sony bluray player plays the 1080/60p disks I create and they look great. I burn them to a25GB BD-RW. I can't get BD-R to work for some reason with HD Writer. Still have to test some more. Windows Media Player for fine on Windows 7 machines two desktops and one laptop.
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post #883 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klm1159 View Post

My Sony bluray player plays the 1080/60p disks I create and they look great. I burn them to a25GB BD-RW. I can't get BD-R to work for some reason with HD Writer. Still have to test some more. Windows Media Player for fine on Windows 7 machines two desktops and one laptop.

Which software do you use to write the 60p disks to the BD-RW?
Is that an internal or external writer?
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post #884 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

I took a 10 minute long 1080p clip, copied it to a USB thumb drive and it played fine on my PS3 slim.
The clip was made by combining 3 clips in HD Writer AE, each recorded in 1080p. I am assuming that output of such editing in HD Writer will maintain the video format ...

Edit: The file that I played on my PS3 was indeed 1080p. Just verified with HDWriterAE.

PS: If I play 1080i or 1080p clips on my PC in Windows Media Player, I get a BSOD in Windows 7 !! It crashes my video driver (ATI Radeon).
The files play fine in VLC Media Player.

That's interesting..maybe your clip's bitrate never exceeded the threshold that my and other PS3 owners have problems with? I find that hard to believe though with a 10 minute long clip. Whenever I've played a clip that long , I've seen the issue that I have described at some point during the clip.

To tell you the truth, I don't know if it is bitrate for sure that causes the bog down problem with my PS3. It could be anything with the 1080/60p files that the Panny produces. All I know is at some point in the clips that I have watched, (usually at a high bitrate), my PS3 has a problem with playing the native 1080/60p files.

It is very subtle when this happens, but I notice it easily. Some viewers may not notice this. You can also tell by bringing up the info screen on the PS3 while the clip is playing. The bitrate will drop to under 10Mbps making the video look funky/slowed down. If it's playing fine on your PS3 that's good news for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Which software do you use to write the 60p disks to the BD-RW?
Is that an internal or external writer?

I would like to know this also. Are you creating a data disc? Can I ask what model # Sony BD player that you have?

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post #885 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 01:16 PM
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I played my 60p off a thumb drive connected to the PS3. Maybe the problem occurs when playing AVCHD 2 disks? or streaming from a network drive?

Assuming one starts out with 1080/60p recording, how does the video quality compare between:

a) playing the file off a thumb drive or USB drive connected directly to the BD player or PS3
b) WD Live Hub Media center
c) AVCHD 2.0 on BD+R
c) AVCHD on DVD-R

My guess is that c) would be much compressed compared to the other options. ..

Everything points to b) as the preferred option .. once I can pull the trigger and click "Buy" in my Amazon cart :-)
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post #886 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Which software do you use to write the 60p disks to the BD-RW?
Is that an internal or external writer?

I'm using the HD Writer AE software that came with the camera.
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post #887 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 03:21 PM
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Page 87 of the software manual says:

"Scenes recorded in 1080/60p or 1080/50p format cannot be copied to a disk with 1080/60p or 1080/50p picture quality."
"Motion pictures recorded in 1080/60p or 1080/50p format are converted to AVCHD or MPEG2 format (standard picture quality) before being copied to the disc."

I think you are getting AVCHD 1080/60i on the disks (even BD+R) that you are writing with the software.

Aloke
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post #888 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

It is very subtle when this happens, but I notice it easily. Some viewers may not notice this. You can also tell by bringing up the info screen on the PS3 while the clip is playing. The bitrate will drop to under 10Mbps making the video look funky/slowed down. If it's playing fine on your PS3 that's good news for you.

My bit rate varies between 8 and 35 Mbps. The video (and audio) never becomes choppy.
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post #889 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

I played my 60p off a thumb drive connected to the PS3. Maybe the problem occurs when playing AVCHD 2 disks? or streaming from a network drive?

Assuming one starts out with 1080/60p recording, how does the video quality compare between:

a) playing the file off a thumb drive or USB drive connected directly to the BD player or PS3
b) WD Live Hub Media center
c) AVCHD 2.0 on BD+R
c) AVCHD on DVD-R

My guess is that c) would be much compressed compared to the other options. ..

Everything points to b) as the preferred option .. once I can pull the trigger and click "Buy" in my Amazon cart :-)

a) Thumb drive or external usb HD plays the native files, no loss of quality
b) A media hub will play the native files, no loss of quality.
c) AVCHD 2.0 uses the native files, no loss of quality.
d) 1080/60p files are not compliant for AVCHD on DVD. You can't use 1080/60p files. You have to use the next lowest recording format when shooting footage, HA mode-17Mbps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

My bit rate varies between 8 and 35 Mbps. The video (and audio) never becomes choppy.

If your ps3 is playing the 1080/60p files fine and your happy with the playback, I personally wouldn't purchase another device to play them. Unless you need to view other file formats that the ps3 will not play. Just watch movies or clips that you have made thru a external HD or flash drive via the PS3's USB.

As I told you before the ps3 is not AVCHD 2.0 compliant, so no disc's are involved in my playback. I play files thru a thumb drive or hard drive via usb just like you, and files also stored directly on the ps3's internal drive. It's not "choppy" as you say on mine either. It's something else....

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post #890 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 06:02 PM
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Does anyone know if the newer Panasonic BR players support 1080/60p from the SD card reader?

The manual on my TM-700 had an insert, specifically for 1080/60p that stated that the DMP-BDT350 and DMP-BDT300 were 1080/60p compatible.

I never bought one of these and now they are both OBS. Does the TM900 manual indicate what new Panny BR players can do this?

If not, sounds like I am searching for a Sony BR player and will need to use a USB drive?

Thanks
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post #891 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Page 87 of the software manual says:

"Scenes recorded in 1080/60p or 1080/50p format cannot be copied to a disk with 1080/60p or 1080/50p picture quality."
"Motion pictures recorded in 1080/60p or 1080/50p format are converted to AVCHD or MPEG2 format (standard picture quality) before being copied to the disc."

I think you are getting AVCHD 1080/60i on the disks (even BD+R) that you are writing with the software.

Aloke

I missed that in the manual. The output looks the same as I get when I view from pc to 32in samsung HDTV. The vide quality in general is better that what I was used to from my hdc-sd9.

So when I use my xbox and media center to play the files does that down convert to 1080/60i?

When I play directly with HD Writer to HDTV via HDMI?
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post #892 of 1366 Old 12-18-2011, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

My bit rate varies between 8 and 35 Mbps. The video (and audio) never becomes choppy.


Well you have a very special PS3 then.
I can send you a TM900 file that will crash any PS3 and many Blu-Ray players. Maybe not the new ones but I like a decent menu system and most blu-ray players have a poor menu system. The PS3 is great as it will show thumbnail clips but sadly not a good match for 60p TM900 files.

The bitrate can spike well over 40Mbps and that will slowdown the video a lot and while it might not get really choppy it's still noticeable. Tingham is correct when he says the PS3's do this.

If you want I can send you a link to the raw file and you can try it.

It's a very sexy 40 second video of a messy kitchen countter top with a slow pan and zooms of a toaster and some raw chicken.
Still with all that excitement going on it crashes like 5 times.
Let me know if you want me to upload the raw file for you.
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post #893 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Well you have a very special PS3 then.
I can send you a TM900 file that will crash any PS3 and many Blu-Ray players. Maybe not the new ones but I like a decent menu system and most blu-ray players have a poor menu system. The PS3 is great as it will show thumbnail clips but sadly not a good match for 60p TM900 files.

The bitrate can spike well over 40Mbps and that will slowdown the video a lot and while it might not get really choppy it's still noticeable. Tingham is correct when he says the PS3's do this.

If you want I can send you a link to the raw file and you can try it.

It's a very sexy 40 second video of a messy kitchen countter top with a slow pan and zooms of a toaster and some raw chicken.
Still with all that excitement going on it crashes like 5 times.
Let me know if you want me to upload the raw file for you.

I would like to try that. Maybe my system is doing the same thing ad yours and Tingham's and I am missing it. Also, this is only with one 10 minute video (my first 1080/60p recording). So, the experience may be different next time.

One oddity about bit rate (as seen on the PS3 display on the top right corner of the screen):

The bit rate starts out at 25-30 Kbps and then settles down at about 9-10 Kbps after 30 seconds. If I pause the video or fast forward it to another spot, the bitrate again jumps to 25-30 before settling down to 10. It is as if the system buffers and reads ahead the video or something when it starts out (at the beginning or after a pause).
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post #894 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klm1159 View Post

I missed that in the manual. The output looks the same as I get when I view from pc to 32in samsung HDTV. The vide quality in general is better that what I was used to from my hdc-sd9.

So when I use my xbox and media center to play the files does that down convert to 1080/60i?

When I play directly with HD Writer to HDTV via HDMI?

When you play back directly by connecting camera or PC to the TV via HDMI: then 1080p recordings will play back at 1080p setting.
I don't know about X-box.
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post #895 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

I would like to try that. Maybe my system is doing the same thing ad yours and Tingham's and I am missing it. Also, this is only with one 10 minute video (my first 1080/60p recording). So, the experience may be different next time.

One oddity about bit rate (as seen on the PS3 display on the top right corner of the screen):

The bit rate starts out at 25-30 Kbps and then settles down at about 9-10 Kbps after 30 seconds. If I pause the video or fast forward it to another spot, the bitrate again jumps to 25-30 before settling down to 10. It is as if the system buffers and reads ahead the video or something when it starts out (at the beginning or after a pause).


I'll upload it later and post a link it's a pretty big file 240MB.

That drop in the Kbps is your crash only it usually doesn't recover. You have to pause the video or stop it. If you keep watching it at 7-9 Kbps which is generally what mine drops to you will see your choppy video. That fast drop in the bitrate IS the crash which requires a stop or a pause.

So your PS3 is in fact doing the same as all of ours and you lose that buttery smooth video as a result.

Keep watching you video after the bitrate drops and you will see how poor it looks. Then if you still need it I can post my file.
But we have established that your PS3 does in fact crash.
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post #896 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 05:20 PM
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Looks like you are correct, based on the bit-rate behavior. Although, In this clip, the artifacts are either not there or I am not seeing them.
I have a longer high school concert to record tomorrow. We'll see how that behaves in playback visuals/audio.
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post #897 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Looks like you are correct, based on the bit-rate behavior. Although, In this clip, the artifacts are either not there or I am not seeing them.
I have a longer high school concert to record tomorrow. We'll see how that behaves in playback visuals/audio.


You will not see any artifacts that is something entirely different. Your bitrate crashes because the PS3 can't handle it. You can buy a Dune and that will handle it and many new Blu-Ray players will handle the higher bitrate. I spoke to the bigshot over at Dune and their machine will handle very high bitrates and if you send them a file they will play it to verify it will work before you buy their machine.
That's pretty darn good!
Of course most people seem to use their Dune's to make uh... backup copies of their DVD's and Blu-ray disks. I guess having all your movies on a HDD is much easier than loading those pesky disks into the front slot or a dvd player.

Anyway, the PS3 can't handle 60p files they have a high variable bitrate and they crash at about 40-41mbps.
My Canon is 60i and never crashes but this upcoming year I want 60p and low light. So the PS3 will need replacing as my primary player.
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post #898 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 07:48 PM
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Any opinions on Dune (is that XTREAMER PRO Media Player & Network Streamer?) vs Western Digital WD TV Live Hub 1 TB Media Center as the storage and playback device?

Edit: I guess Xstreamer is a different product. Amazon doesn't sell Dune products. Amazing!!
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post #899 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alokeprasad View Post

Any opinions on Dune (is that XTREAMER PRO Media Player & Network Streamer?) vs Western Digital WD TV Live Hub 1 TB Media Center as the storage and playback device?


See my post above, Dune will stomp the WD flat for most things. There is a forum here on AVS that covers the Dune in minute detail.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1270503

Have fun reading 15,000 posts.

I will be getting a Dune but some things are taking priority right now over that.
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post #900 of 1366 Old 12-19-2011, 11:15 PM
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Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by monorailfan View Post

Does anyone know if the newer Panasonic BR players support 1080/60p from the SD card reader?

The manual on my TM-700 had an insert, specifically for 1080/60p that stated that the DMP-BDT350 and DMP-BDT300 were 1080/60p compatible.

I never bought one of these and now they are both OBS. Does the TM900 manual indicate what new Panny BR players can do this?

If not, sounds like I am searching for a Sony BR player and will need to use a USB drive?

Thanks

Yes the current models do and will play straight from the card. If editing the footage on a PC, I've not found a way to get it back onto the card to play, although you can stream via DLNA and that works fine. Output is full 1080/60p, not downgraded in anyway.

Regards

Phil
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