The Official Panasonic HDC-TM900 Owners Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 08:08 PM
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So after playing around with both the CX700 and the 900 for quite a while today, I was overall more satisfied with the overall image on the CX700 and decided to keep that and send the 900 back. For me the CX700 was easier to get a good image out of, performed much better indoors, wasn't far off the 900 outdoors, felt better in my hand and has a much higher quality fit and finish to it.

As a lot of this is my perception, and somebody with more video experience could probably get more out of the 900 I am sure this will differ from the general opinion here. But for me, the CX700 camera was the better camera of the two. Throw on top of that the beeping (and who knows how many cameras I would have to go through to get one that didn't do it) and it became a no brainer.

On the beeping, my wife couldn't hear it until I cued her on when each beep was starting. Even then, she couldn't hear it everywhere I could. So some might be more sensitive to it then others.
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post #92 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Johntomk View Post

So will one of the new Sony blu ray players like the bdp-s780 play the raw 1080p files from the 900? Can any of the Sony BDP , besides the ps3 which seems like it doesn't handle the files that well, decode the panny's codec? I would love to be able to connect my external hard drive to the player and not have to degrade the quality of the video.

The only trouble with using a BD player as a playback device, is archiving. You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive since the PS3 has no trouble with such drives. That's the biggest issue with using the PS3 as a playback device and a BD player.

Of course you can always transfer whatever you want to watch back to a memory stick for later playback on your HDTV, but that becomes a bit less convenient.

Depending on how much footage you have, it's an issue that you may need to think about.
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post #93 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichGS View Post

So after playing around with both the CX700 and the 900 for quite a while today, I was overall more satisfied with the overall image on the CX700 and decided to keep that and send the 900 back. For me the CX700 was easier to get a good image out of, performed much better indoors, wasn't far off the 900 outdoors, felt better in my hand and has a much higher quality fit and finish to it.

To be honest, I really wish the 900 had the low light performance of the CX. There was no question that indoors the Sony was significantly better. But I still prefer the outdoor quality of the 900.
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post #94 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The only trouble with using a BD player as a playback device, is archiving. You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive since the PS3 has no trouble with such drives. That's the biggest issue with using the PS3 as a playback device and a BD player.

Why? Burn to a BD-R or even a DVD-recordable and watch.* Archiving on BD is a perfect solution.

*On select players.
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post #95 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tingham View Post

So you are seeing actual stuttering then? Maybe your cam is shooting at a higher bitrate than Marks was. All kidding aside, I'll most likely give up using the PS3 for viewing these high bitrate files. As you say, there are other relatively inexpensive options these days for viewing them. It would be nice if there was some setting I may have missed that would correct it, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. I would just like to be able to use the PS3 for all my multi-media viewing somehow.

The down converting of the files in-cam is just another option for people that have older BD players or media machines that play these files, (but can't play the high bitrate ones) and do not wish to spend money on a new player. They can decide for themselves if the process works for them or not.


Ok but what happen if you play a high bitrate file like a 50Mbps file out of say a Canon XF105? That should cause it to completely choke as it's a very fast 1080i file.
The PS3 might have a bit rate limitation. maybe it's the HDD, if it's a 5200 rpm drive that might explain it. The only way to know is to put a 7200 rpm drive and run it through the USB port on the PS3 and see if it chokes. If not it's probably the HDD in the PS3 slowing it down.
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post #96 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Why? Burn to a BD-R or even a DVD-recordable and watch.* Archiving on BD is a perfect solution.

*On select players.

You can do that, but I still think it's easier to simply keep it on an auxiliary drive. Not everyone has a BD burner and using a regular DVD results in a limited capacity issue.
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post #97 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ErichGS View Post

So after playing around with both the CX700 and the 900 for quite a while today, I was overall more satisfied with the overall image on the CX700 and decided to keep that and send the 900 back. For me the CX700 was easier to get a good image out of, performed much better indoors, wasn't far off the 900 outdoors, felt better in my hand and has a much higher quality fit and finish to it.

As a lot of this is my perception, and somebody with more video experience could probably get more out of the 900 I am sure this will differ from the general opinion here. But for me, the CX700 camera was the better camera of the two. Throw on top of that the beeping (and who knows how many cameras I would have to go through to get one that didn't do it) and it became a no brainer.

On the beeping, my wife couldn't hear it until I cued her on when each beep was starting. Even then, she couldn't hear it everywhere I could. So some might be more sensitive to it then others.

quote cx700 is the best
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post #98 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


The only trouble with using a BD player as a playback device, is archiving. You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive since the PS3 has no trouble with such drives. That's the biggest issue with using the PS3 as a playback device and a BD player.

Of course you can always transfer whatever you want to watch back to a memory stick for later playback on your HDTV, but that becomes a bit less convenient.

Depending on how much footage you have, it's an issue that you may need to think about.

Are the blu ray players not compatible with a hard drive via USB. Is this because of formatting? Also, would the BDP be able to keep up with the high bit rates if I put a raw mts file from my panny on a USB flash drive? I'm just trying to find the most convenient playback of the original files. I do not want to have to convert the original files. I keep them on an external hard drive and want to play them on my samsung plasma. Unfortunately samsungs mediaplay feature doesn't support the panasonic codec.
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post #99 of 1366 Old 03-17-2011, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by djandrea View Post

quote cx700 is the best

For what works best for me, yes.
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post #100 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johntomk View Post


Are the blu ray players not compatible with a hard drive via USB. Is this because of formatting? Also, would the BDP be able to keep up with the high bit rates if I put a raw mts file from my panny on a USB flash drive? I'm just trying to find the most convenient playback of the original files. I do not want to have to convert the original files. I keep them on an external hard drive and want to play them on my samsung plasma. Unfortunately samsungs mediaplay feature doesn't support the panasonic codec.

The problem is these BD players don't recognize an external device as a 'drive' the way a PS3 or computer does. But yes, they have no issues with high btrates the way the PS3 does (at least some, if not most PS3 models).
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post #101 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johntomk View Post

Are the blu ray players not compatible with a hard drive via USB. Is this because of formatting? Also, would the BDP be able to keep up with the high bit rates if I put a raw mts file from my panny on a USB flash drive? I'm just trying to find the most convenient playback of the original files. I do not want to have to convert the original files. I keep them on an external hard drive and want to play them on my samsung plasma. Unfortunately samsungs mediaplay feature doesn't support the panasonic codec.


I am hopefully getting the TM900 today and will be able to test out the problem even if I have to attach it to an airplane propeller (Timex joke) to get the bit rate up. If it stutters in the PS3 because the bit rate exceeds a certain amount then it could very well be a PS3 limitation. I sure as heck don't want to hear any beeping in my videos.
Having an external 500GB HDD using a USB 2.0 port seems like the best solution. Since you can't format a HDD dive to FAT32 over 500GB, although partitioning in might work.
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post #102 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

I am hopefully getting the TM900 today and will be able to test out the problem even if I have to attach it to an airplane propeller (Timex joke) to get the bit rate up. If it stutters in the PS3 because the bit rate exceeds a certain amount then it could very well be a PS3 limitation. I sure as heck don't want to hear any beeping in my videos.
Having an external 500GB HDD using a USB 2.0 port seems like the best solution. Since you can't format a HDD dive to FAT32 over 500GB, although partitioning in might work.

I'm glad you clarified this I tried my 1 tera byte drive on both the Panasonic br player and the ps3 and this did not work. My drive is 3/4 full with pics and videos so I'm not reformatting this one. Best buy had my 1 Tera byte drive on sale for $80 but now I'll pick up the 500g instead thanks for the info.
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post #103 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

I'm glad you clarified this I tried my 1 tera byte drive on both the Panasonic br player and the ps3 and this did not work. My drive is 3/4 full with pics and videos so I'm not reformatting this one. Best buy had my 1 Tera byte drive on sale for $80 but now I'll pick up the 500g instead thanks for the info.


You will need a program to format a drive to FAT32 and you can get that program here for free. Supposedly it works very well for the PS3 community. I have not tried it myself, but it's used a lot to make external HDD's play on the PS3. I do believe if you have a 1TB drive you can partition it and make 2 roughly 500GB partitions minus the formatting overhead. no idea if it will work on a Blu-Ray player.

http://www.compuapps.com/index.php?o...ent&Itemid=193
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post #104 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:00 AM
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"You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive"

This is not true. The Sony blu ray players in the 270-770 series from their usb ports (there are two), can access usb sticks, cards inserted in usb readers or usb hard drives. I use an unpowered Western Digital portable hard drive to play 108060p videos with a Sony blu ray player - no glitches, pauses, slow-downs, out-of-synch audio, stuttering.

The cheapest, easiest solution for playing 108060p videos.
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post #105 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:07 AM
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^ Nice..thanks Mark!
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post #106 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive"

This is not true. The Sony blu ray players in the 270-770 series from their usb ports (there are two), can access usb sticks, cards inserted in usb readers or usb hard drives. I use an unpowered Western Digital portable hard drive to play 108060p videos with a Sony blu ray player - no glitches, pauses, slow-downs, out-of-synch audio, stuttering.

The cheapest, easiest solution for playing 108060p videos.

Didn't realize that. You can't do that with the Panasonic BD players. That is a good solution. Bad news coming up.
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post #107 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:33 AM
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Just received my replacement 900 and I'm really kind of ticked off.

First off the beep is not as loud or as continuous with the new unit, but it IS still there. I've heard it in a few clips and it's the same rhythmic 'beep...beep...beep" but at a lower volume. I could almost live with this one.

However, the new one as additional issues.

Issue 1- In some scenes the lens is making what I would call an almost 'scraping' noise as it focuses. Granted I heard this in quiet environments, but this is not good regardless.

Issue 2 - This may or may not be related, but the new unit is without a doubt softer than the original unit. There is no 'pop' in the picture that is so characteristic of the 700/900. Now I haven't had any time to shoot outside since the battery is charging and I've got some other things I need to do, but some of the indoor videos are such that I would never have guessed they came from a 900 or 700. This could well be tied to the autofocus, but it may not be. Later on I'll test the unit in MF, but regardless, I need the autofocus to work.

So I am frustrated to say the least. I never had these issues with the 700 and given that 3 out of 4 units we know about here at AVS have had some issue or other (beeps, lens etc.), there appears to be a serious QC issue at Panasonic.

I will probably hold on to this until my Canon comes, but it certainly will not be the unit I keep. At the very best, I'd need to have this replaced once again.
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post #108 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:44 AM
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Sounds defective, again. This is terrible.

Can you try calling Panasonic tech support? I doubt they can solve the problem, but they might know something about this.

The unit I used had none of these issues.
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post #109 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:52 AM
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I have no doubt I'd get nowhere with Panasonic. The unit is too new, tech support is not good and they will be clueless. Regardless a replacement would be needed. Just unreal.
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post #110 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 07:55 AM
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I agree. The cameras you are getting are not independent draws, presumably they are from the same store, which just may have a bad batch. Can you change from whom you get the camera from? A bigger hassle, I am sure.
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post #111 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just received my replacement 900 and I'm really kind of ticked off.

First off the beep is not as loud or as continuous with the new unit, but it IS still there. I've heard it in a few clips and it's the same rhythmic 'beep...beep...beep" but at a lower volume. I could almost live with this one.

However, the new one as additional issues.

Issue 1- In some scenes the lens is making what I would call an almost 'scraping' noise as it focuses. Granted I heard this in quiet environments, but this is not good regardless.

Issue 2 - This may or may not be related, but the new unit is without a doubt softer than the original unit. There is no 'pop' in the picture that is so characteristic of the 700/900. Now I haven't had any time to shoot outside since the battery is charging and I've got some other things I need to do, but some of the indoor videos are such that I would never have guessed they came from a 900 or 700. This could well be tied to the autofocus, but it may not be. Later on I'll test the unit in MF, but regardless, I need the autofocus to work.

So I am frustrated to say the least. I never had these issues with the 700 and given that 3 out of 4 units we know about here at AVS have had some issue or other (beeps, lens etc.), there appears to be a serious QC issue at Panasonic.

I will probably hold on to this until my Canon comes, but it certainly will not be the unit I keep. At the very best, I'd need to have this replaced once again.

This may be why the 900 I have wasn't "oh wow" better then the CX700 outside. I really wanted to be impressed by the 900, but just wasn't. Mine came from B&H btw. It was getting sent back anyways, maybe I will put an order in on the cannon there and keep the Sony until that comes.
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post #112 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I agree. The cameras you are getting are not independent draws, presumably they are from the same store, which just may have a bad batch. Can you change from whom you get the camera from? A bigger hassle, I am sure.

I can and I may well if I decide the 900 is better than the Canon. I'm really hoping the Canon comes in soon. The fun has been taken out of this.
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post #113 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ErichGS View Post

This may be why the 900 I have wasn't "oh wow" better then the CX700 outside. I really wanted to be impressed by the 900, but just wasn't. Mine came from B&H btw. It was getting sent back anyways, maybe I will put an order in on the cannon there and keep the Sony until that comes.

It may well be Erich. The thought crossed my mind that if I had never seen these cameras before, my reaction would have been 'So this is what everyone raves about??"

I thought about what Mark said and that same thought crossed my mind, perhaps the retailer I bought it from got a bad batch. However you too have a bad one and that came from a different retailer. Panasonic has some real issues here.
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post #114 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 09:03 AM
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It may well be Erich. The thought crossed my mind that if I had never seen these cameras before, my reaction would have been 'So this is what everyone raves about??"

I thought about what Mark said and that same thought crossed my mind, perhaps the retailer I bought it from got a bad batch. However you too have a bad one and that came from a different retailer. Panasonic has some real issues here.

When you combine the cci notes on autofocus being soft, but in varying degrees between camcorders, it does not look good at all
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post #115 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 09:12 AM
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Wow! You know I honestly missed that in the review. I went back and read it and it seems almost exactly the issue I'm having. But I don't recall that issue with the first one. I'll bet this issue is more noticeable indoors where lens openings will be wider and focus more critical. You might not see this at all outdoors.

I'm getting more and more soured on this unit as time goes on. There was nothing wrong with the autofocus on the 700, so why mess with it??
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post #116 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 09:17 AM
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Just RMA'd mine to B&H. Was going to pre-order the G10 there, but today the pre-order option is gone. Any other reputable places that anybody can suggest for a pre-order on the G10?
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post #117 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 09:46 AM
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Just RMA'd mine to B&H. Was going to pre-order the G10 there, but today the pre-order option is gone. Any other reputable places that anybody can suggest for a pre-order on the G10?

Earthquake probably. Canon and many other companies have halted a lot of production.
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post #118 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just received my replacement 900 and I'm really kind of ticked off.

First off the beep is not as loud or as continuous with the new unit, but it IS still there. I've heard it in a few clips and it's the same rhythmic 'beep...beep...beep" but at a lower volume. I could almost live with this one.

However, the new one as additional issues.

Issue 1- In some scenes the lens is making what I would call an almost 'scraping' noise as it focuses. Granted I heard this in quiet environments, but this is not good regardless.

Issue 2 - This may or may not be related, but the new unit is without a doubt softer than the original unit. There is no 'pop' in the picture that is so characteristic of the 700/900. Now I haven't had any time to shoot outside since the battery is charging and I've got some other things I need to do, but some of the indoor videos are such that I would never have guessed they came from a 900 or 700. This could well be tied to the autofocus, but it may not be. Later on I'll test the unit in MF, but regardless, I need the autofocus to work.

So I am frustrated to say the least. I never had these issues with the 700 and given that 3 out of 4 units we know about here at AVS have had some issue or other (beeps, lens etc.), there appears to be a serious QC issue at Panasonic.

I will probably hold on to this until my Canon comes, but it certainly will not be the unit I keep. At the very best, I'd need to have this replaced once again.

WOW!!, a replacement unit and still the same issues, Not a good sign or (omen). Ken, You seem to know what your talking about, my suggestion is ... you might want to try and get a hold of a senior Tech advisor from Panasonic and discuss that issue with them. Also, follow it up with a detailed letter and an example of the sound issue your talking about. I am sure that this will be handled by them ASAP. I'm sure there are quite a few of people with Buyers Remorse out there rite now. But this could just be something that can be fixed with a FW update? Hope to hear back soon from you on this issue to see how Panasonic handles it.

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post #119 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 10:05 AM
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The beeping issue could likely be fixed with firmware (though it is possible it could be a hardware quality issue.) I think it is likely that the differences in image quality between cameras could not. That is more likely an issue with QC in the hardware then software considering the variation that is being seen.
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post #120 of 1366 Old 03-18-2011, 10:25 AM
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That's my feeling too Erich. To be honest, the issue with the beep on this unit is something I could live with, but would be prefer not to since you never know if you'll be shooting in a quiet environment. But the issue with the softness, whatever its cause, is something that bothers me more. I think this is hardware and not prone to any fixes via firmware.

The other thing is I would never advise anyone buying a camera displaying issues in the hope that a firmware update comes. More often than not it doesn't. You must operate under the assumption that what you've got you've got.
Ken Ross is offline  
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