Canon HF G10, XA10, XF100, XF105 Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

I think its worth the extra money everyone is still waiting for the g10. Just kidding. The xa10 looks to be a little bigger then the g10 and still small enough to take on everyday events. I took videos all day with the panny 750 and I was going to use the nx5u. Holding that still doesnt cut it for me any more. I think the xa10 will be a much better fit for me in size and weight. Plus the ability to add the shotgun mic, ir night shooting and the removeable handle is a plus. I hope the canon xa10 is going to be the 2 cameras in one for me I know the price is.


Thanks, the bigger cams have always had the same problems, portability. Yes the video can look amazing but you have to lug a lot of support equipment with you to do it. The Canon is 60i which is my biggest concern. 60p is pretty amazing at least in bright light. I'll probably wait for the HF G10 but ideally I'd like something like the XA10 with a 60p mode and amazing bright and low light performance. Maybe next year...
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post #182 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 05:13 PM
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Actually the XA10 with the handle removed is virtually identical in size to the G10. The only difference is a slight bit of added length due entirely to the nicer eyecup on the XA10.

It's really very small.
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post #183 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I would agree Steve, at least for most people. I got for a couple of reasons, one it was available (during a 10 minute window at B&H) and two, if I like it, it can serve as a backup cam for work. For that it would be worth the extra $$. But for casual use, I think the G10 is all one needs...if it's ever available.

If I don't like it, I suspect I can sell it at a profit given the huge demand and no supply.


My issue is having to own two cam one for bright light and one for low light. My wife thinks we should just do it and get it over with but that's like $2,500 for 2 cams and no accessories like batteries and SDHC cards.
I'll be looking to see just how good the XA10 is in bright and low light but also with motion as it IS a 60i cam and I do a lot of motion shots at least outdoors. If only I had my old light meter I could check the actual light in the places I am shooting and see just how low the light really is.

Too bad they don't build one into the camera so you can actually see how many lux you are filming in.

I suspect returning it for a full refund would be a non-issue as well. I wonder how many of these suddenly available XA10's are returns tho, since us new adopters tend to return stuff rather quickly if it doesn't work out.
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post #184 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 05:40 PM
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From what Jay was saying, there would be no reason to have 2 cams. He was making very favorable comparisons to the TMV700 in terms of the XA10's ability to produce quality good light videos. If that turns out to be the case, this cam would be the best overall unit out there.

I've never seen any real motion issues with a good 60i camcorder. I can't ever recall seeing a 60i HD cam I've owned, produce odd or strange motion. I think 60i can very smooth and it's certainly buttery smooth on my plasma.

I don't think a single XA10 has been returned. People are desperate to get them and supply is almost non-existent. I can't imagine someone returning them at this point unless they were expecting something totally different. I would suspect the vast majority of people are getting them for their manual and low light capabilities. All reports thus far have said their good light performance is excellent too.

The only reason they are 'suddenly available' is because the first supply made it to the U.S., no other reason.
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post #185 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Actually the XA10 with the handle removed is virtually identical in size to the G10. The only difference is a slight bit of added length due entirely to the nicer eyecup on the XA10.

It's really very small.

Not quite:

Handle Bar with XLR inputs
Infrared mode
Padded viewfinder
Twice as much internal Storage
You can simultaneously record both SD slots

Good test footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Dp-iqydOg
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post #186 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi View Post

Thank you so much for the low light comparison review.
I own a xr550 and as far it seems from your review, the canon hf g10 that I pre-ordered, wil be better than my xr550 and maybe also better than the cx700..

Thank you so much

The biggest problem I had when I owned the Sony was that colors just did not look right in low light shooting. They were acceptable in daylight (albeit a bit warm) but low light was always a different story and ultimately one of the main reasons I got rid of that camcorder. Not so with this one!
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post #187 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:23 PM
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For everyone...

Sometimes it takes me a month or so with a camcorder to really know it and to really accept or reject it. So while I am in love with this one so far, I don't even own it yet and have not spent that month with one. I do hope that when all of you who have ordered yours find the results the same that I have, but please understand, I have only had a few hours worth to experience it.

So far though, I think it's the second time in my life that I have fallen in love at first sight (checking to make sure my wife is not looking)
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post #188 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

From what Jay was saying, there would be no reason to have 2 cams. He was making very favorable comparisons to the TMV700 in terms of the XA10's ability to produce quality good light videos. If that turns out to be the case, this cam would be the best overall unit out there.

I've never seen any real motion issues with a good 60i camcorder. I can't ever recall seeing a 60i HD cam I've owned, produce odd or strange motion. I think 60i can very smooth and it's certainly buttery smooth on my plasma.

I don't think a single XA10 has been returned. People are desperate to get them and supply is almost non-existent. I can't imagine someone returning them at this point unless they were expecting something totally different. I would suspect the vast majority of people are getting them for their manual and low light capabilities. All reports thus far have said their good light performance is excellent too.

The only reason they are 'suddenly available' is because the first supply made it to the U.S., no other reason.


The thing is Ken, I've seen videos produced by the XA10 online and they are nice but they are not RAW files and that matters. I know the Canon will take a hit in bright light compared to the TM900. The question is how much. Until I see more videos I won't be convinced that 60i will be superior to 60p. although certainly some 60i cameras could be better than some 60p cameras.

Hopefully it will all get sorted out but for me anyway the bitrate climbing to 40Mbps was an issue in 60p. I don't honestly think 60i will be better for motion shots than 60p.

I hope I am wrong tho.
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post #189 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:49 PM
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When I used to shoot with the TM700 I was always impressed with the 60p as far as motion is concerned. I had never seen anything that good. The XA10 looks like 60i, it does not look any better than, nor even as good as 60p just in terms of smooth motion. I wouldn't expect it to and if you are, you may be disappointed.
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post #190 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay968 View Post

When I used to shoot with the TM700 I was always impressed with the 60p as far as motion is concerned. I had never seen anything that good. The XA10 looks like 60i, it does not look any better than, nor even as good as 60p just in terms of smooth motion. I wouldn't expect it to and if you are, you may be disappointed.


That is why I feel I might need 2 camcorders. I film fast motion outdoors and indoors less motion but low light. I also need good backlight compensation because my aunt hates to be filmed and she always sit with her back to the window which blows any chance of pics or a video taken unawares an impossibility. She hates candid videos and candid pics.
I might just get another TM900 when the price drops and just use it for outdoors and have a Canon HF G10 for indoors.

Thanks for letting me know about the XA10 60i motion. This was a big concern for me. I did try a light for indoors but found it too limiting and my wife didn't care for it at all.
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post #191 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

That is why I feel I might need 2 camcorders. I film fast motion outdoors and indoors less motion but low light. I also need good backlight compensation because my aunt hates to be filmed and she always sit with her back to the window which blows any chance of pics or a video taken unawares an impossibility. She hates candid videos and candid pics.
I might just get another TM900 when the price drops and just use it for outdoors and have a Canon HF G10 for indoors.

Thanks for letting me know about the XA10 60i motion. This was a big concern for me. I did try a light for indoors but found it too limiting and my wife didn't care for it at all.

Yeah, that's why I posted that last comment. I saw your concerns. In your situation, I might agree that 2 camcorders may be the answer.
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post #192 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 07:04 PM
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Steve and Jay... did you guys look at this video? Granted, it isn't 1080...

Motion XA10
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post #193 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Not quite:

Handle Bar with XLR inputs
Infrared mode
Padded viewfinder
Twice as much internal Storage
You can simultaneously record both SD slots

Good test footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Dp-iqydOg

No Garman, I was only speaking about the physical size of the unit, not its capabilities.
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post #194 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

The thing is Ken, I've seen videos produced by the XA10 online and they are nice but they are not RAW files and that matters. I know the Canon will take a hit in bright light compared to the TM900. The question is how much. Until I see more videos I won't be convinced that 60i will be superior to 60p. although certainly some 60i cameras could be better than some 60p cameras.

Hopefully it will all get sorted out but for me anyway the bitrate climbing to 40Mbps was an issue in 60p. I don't honestly think 60i will be better for motion shots than 60p.

I hope I am wrong tho.

Steve, I'm not saying motion will be better in 60i than 60p, but I am saying when displayed on an HDTV with a decent deinterlacer, it should not appear any worse. That's been my experience.

I too am expecting a hit in good light quality, but like you said, how much? If the XA10's good light video is such that when viewed by itself I don't say "Gee, that really doesn't look as good as the 900", then I think I'll be fine given the big improvement in low light. In other words if it takes careful A/Bs to see the difference between the good light video of the 900 & XA10, but in the end the 900 wins under those conditions, then I'll be very happy with that aspect of the XA10's performance.

However, if I look at the XA10's daylight performance and keep lusting for the 900, then "Houston, we have a problem". I think you guys know by now I'm pretty objective about these things...I've never been good at kidding myself.

However, I am encouraged by owner's & tester's reports who have had other camcorders, including the 700. They all seem to think that there really is no hit to good light PQ. But I think it's 'healthy' to remain skeptical until I've got it in hand.
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post #195 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

Steve and Jay... did you guys look at this video? Granted, it isn't 1080...

Motion XA10

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with the motion from the XA10. It just isn't 60p and there is a difference.

BTW, are you guys aware that the XA10 can be set to output its HDMI as 1080p? Not sure what it's doing exactly and how good it is, but there is a setting to enable this.
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post #196 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay968 View Post


Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with the motion from the XA10. It just isn't 60p and there is a difference.

Looking at that video, I'm really not sure I would know if this were from a 1080p or 1080i camera.
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post #197 of 4142 Old 04-03-2011, 11:22 PM
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And here is your low light video. He did some quick panning at the beginning to show how different cameras handle it... Now, let's hear it from you guys!!!

Paramon's HFG10 vs CX700 Low Light
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post #198 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 12:05 AM
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I've been following this thread closely as I'm waiting delivery of the XA10.
To tell you the truth, in this video as the previous one I share Ken's opinion of the color of the cx700 sucks, as far as the low light test on the HF-g10 I like the more natural settings either auto, or with the gain at 18, rather than the "low lux" for the Sony or the "low light"
of the Canon.
Thanks
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post #199 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 12:17 AM
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Looks like the canon had to reduce shutter speed to like 15 for it's low light. Cool for artistic purposes but not very practical. The Sony low lux wins IMHO. (only talking about how low can you go usability wise of course) Color looks better of course on the canon. But man that 700 looks drab. The one I had looked nothing like it. It was bordering on being a tad TOO saturated at times.
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post #200 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 03:48 AM
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Why u guys thinks that the sony low lux looks better ?

In terms of what they can see, it seems to me, they can see the same (same sensitivity) and the canon has more hot colors than the sony...

Why u guys think that the sony low lux is better for very very dim light siuations?
Thank you
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post #201 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 04:42 AM
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Hi Marcolisi,

What I meant was that the canon low light mode looks like it's using a noticeably slower shutter speed to get the picture to look like that which while very pleasing would make motion look like an old silent movie with the slower frame rate. I have shot with my 550 purposefully like that for effect as it gives the footage a more dream like quality. Like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=ywK_F3P5oKE

Now that's just an idea. I used I believe a shutter speed of 8 but the canon looks like maybe 15.
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post #202 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 05:42 AM
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Ups site says out for delivery so it should be here soon. I hope it's worth all the hype. Ken did you check the tracking for UPS may be it will deliver for you today to.
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post #203 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

And here is your low light video. He did some quick panning at the beginning to show how different cameras handle it... Now, let's hear it from you guys!!!

Paramon's HFG10 vs CX700 Low Light

One thing I found interesting in his testing and has nothing to do with low light, was the motion testing. I saw no significant difference in that rapid panning test between those cameras using 60p, 30p, 24p or 60i. In fact I thought the one 60p camera, the 700, looked the worst. Now I know his intent in that test was to uncover any of the infamous 'jello effects', but I think it also shows that the difference in motion handling between 60i and 60p is over-rated IMO.

As far as the low light test were concerned, I was actually most impressed with the EX1 at 6db. I was pretty impressed with the XA10 @18db and I also was impressed with the 700 at full auto. There's no surprises that the Sony does well in low light, but the color is it's issue, especially in low light. So I'd still give the nod to the Canon for the best looking low light among the consumer/prosumer camcorders. Remember the EX1 will cost you a lot more.

As for 'low lux' or whatever a given manufacturer calls that mode, I think they're all pretty bad. Motion stutter or a 'slow motion look' in the case of the Sony, IMO they're all gimmicks.

Here's another link that T.Huntley posted in another thread that shows what the Canon is truly capable of. IMO, this is the best low light footage I've ever seen in a prosumer/consumer camcorder. It blows away any of the other test footage I've seen and perhaps this is because it's more of a 'real world' setting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0anyvITTbE
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post #204 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 06:40 AM
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That color is amazing
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post #205 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

That color is amazing

This is what I have been saying. It's pretty incredible isn't it?
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post #206 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay968 View Post


This is what I have been saying. It's pretty incredible isn't it?

Yeah. Wow
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post #207 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 07:52 AM
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Not low light, but check these out...

http://vimeo.com/21854658

http://vimeo.com/21782222
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post #208 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 08:05 AM
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Hey guys? Beware of something...there is a MAJOR problem here. I just got an email from my friend who purchased the XA10...he tried putting a flash (Sunpak 383) onto the shoe of the XA10 just to see if it is a standard shoe. It went on ok but he cannot get it off! Seems that once on it locks into place and there seems to be no way to release it. The entire camcorder and flash may now have to go in for repair to get the flash off.
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post #209 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 08:23 AM
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That is unfortunate. It looks like a very standard shoe, so I can't imagine why he couldn't get it off. The handle has a shoe and so does the body of the camera itself. If you can get the handle off, again a standard shoe mount, I can't imagine why he couldn't get the flash off. The only thing I can figure is that perhaps there was something bent on the flash mount itself.

But I guess you could say 'Who needs a freaking flash with this camera anyway".
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post #210 of 4142 Old 04-04-2011, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay968 View Post

Not low light, but check these out...

http://vimeo.com/21854658

http://vimeo.com/21782222

The 24p footage looks surprisingly good. The 24p footage I shot on the Sony cx700 looked really poor in comparison. Really stuttery unlike the 24p footage from my Sony nx5u. This also shoots at 30p, yes? That is my preferred mode to shoot in now.
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