Panasonic TM900 vs Sony CX560/700V vs Canon HF G10 Steel Cage Match Comparison Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ed lynn View Post

I have both the Sony XR550 and Panny Tm700.

I use my Panny for most outdoor video and Sony for most indoor video.

Finally... up to this point you really hadn't backed up why you were touting one versus the other... Now, you own the older versions, how are you making assumptions on the new ones?

I've owned/used both the TM900 and the CX560 and tried them in the locations I would normally use them. I'm now waiting on the HFG10. Once I can compare them all, I will make my final decision. As much as I liked the low light of the Sony, I didn't really like it's performance in good light.

Am I objective? No, it's still my preference, but at least I don't force it on anyone. If I had side by side comparisons that I did (and if I were a pro), I could at least offer up why I chose one or the other. In my case, neither are true, so I research by reading and watching everyone's videos and trying to figure out what is best for me.

If I were rating the earlier post on Amazon, it would be found as "NOT useful". I'm not attacking, I'm just stating.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:54 PM
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Thanks for your replies. It is headache when it come to "only pick one of them". The Canon G10 is $300 to $400 more than the rest so will not be in my list. It seems that I have no choice to bring a Pan TM900 home to A/B compare with the Sony CX560. I really have no complaint about the Sony except if the sharpness of picture at outdoor and speed of autofocus can be better.
My conclusion is there will not be a king of king among the three but just pick up the one most suitable and shoot.
It will be my only camcorder in the next 3-4 years.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:00 PM
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Here's some more low light footage of the HF G10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0anyvITTbE
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by T.Huntley View Post

Here's some more low light footage of the HF G10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0anyvITTbE

That's the best low light footage I've seen from an overall standpoint (color, sharpness & noise) of any consumer/prosumer camcorder I can recall. The colors are amazingly vibrant given the lighting. I can imagine how much better the native file looks!
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That's the best low light footage I've seen from an overall standpoint (color, sharpness & noise) of any consumer/prosumer camcorder I can recall. The colors are amazingly vibrant given the lighting. I can imagine how much better the native file looks!

I have to agree with you there, the colours looks brilliant! Would be good to know what settings etc were used

I still want a comparison of the panny vs sony vs canon in low light, just to see how obvious the differences are
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:19 AM
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Well I can tell you there's no way that the Panny can match that from a color, noise or sharpness standpoint, no way, no how. The Sony may well match it from the standpoint of noise, but it would never match those brilliant colors.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well I can tell you there's no way that the Panny can match that from a color, noise or sharpness standpoint, no way, no how. The Sony may well match it from the standpoint of noise, but it would never match those brilliant colors.

I saw paramon's video and the G10 looked really good at 18db, wasn't a fan of the slow shutter speed in low light mode. The beauty about the Canon is that you'd be able to tinker with the settings to get an optimal result
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ed lynn View Post

I have both the Sony XR550 and Panny Tm700.

I use my Panny for most outdoor video and Sony for most indoor video.


I had a TM900 and did not need a tripod at all. I found the OIS to be excellent. The only area it was lacking was in low light.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by T.Huntley View Post

I have to agree with you there, the colours looks brilliant! Would be good to know what settings etc were used

I still want a comparison of the panny vs sony vs canon in low light, just to see how obvious the differences are


Well it's up to you Ken to post some low light and bright light raw videos so there will be some available. Motion is a big factor for me I'd love to see how the XA10 handles a fairly fast handheld pan as if you were at an outdoor event. I had a real pain 2 years ago trying to get video of jousting at the medevil faire.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:19 PM
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Steve, that video has already been posted, didn't you see it? The guy panned very quickly laterally & vertically using a CX700, G10 and several DSLRs. To my eyes the worst in that grouping was the 1080p Sony! I contend in a blind folded test you would have no idea which motion was produced by a 1080p unit or a 1080i unit. I think this is truly over-hyped.

IMO this all boils down to how well the Canons work in good light. I'm already convinced there are no other contenders in the area of low light. Yes the Sony produces a very nice low light picture, but the colors are yuk. So how well does the Canon stack up against the King of good light, the Panasonic 700/900? I'll take a relatively small hit in good light to get the kind of low light the Canon produces, but not a big hit.

As I said before, if the only way I can see the good light differences in PQ between the Canon and the Panasonic, is in a careful A/B, then the Canon is certainly 'good enough' IMO. But if it calls attention to itself on its own, then that's not a good sign.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Steve, that video has already been posted, didn't you see it? The guy panned very quickly laterally & vertically using a CX700, G10 and several DSLRs. To my eyes the worst in that grouping was the 1080p Sony! I contend in a blind folded test you would have no idea which motion was produced by a 1080p unit or a 1080i unit. I think this is truly over-hyped.

Agreed, Ken. I've done some very fast whip pans with my 550 and they NEVER looked that bad. I wonder if in the rush to play catch up to panasonic with 60p that they just compromised somehow with the way the footage gets processed, encoded to the camera files.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:25 PM
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It could be Dave, but man, Sony had almost 2 years to get this thing right.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It could be Dave, but man, Sony had almost 2 years to get this thing right.

Totally agree. I was very psyched to get a 60p cam with the lowlight of the 550 but I really was disappointed. So either the tm900 or the g10.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Steve, that video has already been posted, didn't you see it? The guy panned very quickly laterally & vertically using a CX700, G10 and several DSLRs. To my eyes the worst in that grouping was the 1080p Sony! I contend in a blind folded test you would have no idea which motion was produced by a 1080p unit or a 1080i unit. I think this is truly over-hyped.

IMO this all boils down to how well the Canons work in good light. I'm already convinced there are no other contenders in the area of low light. Yes the Sony produces a very nice low light picture, but the colors are yuk. So how well does the Canon stack up against the King of good light, the Panasonic 700/900? I'll take a relatively small hit in good light to get the kind of low light the Canon produces, but not a big hit.

As I said before, if the only way I can see the good light differences in PQ between the Canon and the Panasonic, is in a careful A/B, then the Canon is certainly 'good enough' IMO. But if it calls attention to itself on its own, then that's not a good sign.


No, it's still downloading, Comcrap is very slow today.

I hope it looks good but the raw file is not in 1080p. I don't know if you noticed that.
I would also be willing to take a small hit in bright light but not a big hit by any means.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:32 PM
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I was disappointed too Dave. I thought the CX700 could be the answer and it failed for me in a totally unexpected way. I really expected it to fail in the sharpness arena, not the color. However both the 560 & 700 were 'sharp enough', but surprisingly it was the very 'un-Sony' like color that did it in for me.

You must have had one of the few warm, more typical Sony units out there.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

No, it's still downloading, Comcrap is very slow today.

I hope it looks good but the raw file is not in 1080p. I don't know if you noticed that.
I would also be willing to take a small hit in bright light but not a big hit by any means.

I did notice it and it's the reason I didn't bother to download it. Just weird that you can't find a single 1920X1080 native file to download.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:35 PM
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Mine looked pretty good color-wise but had 4 visible spots IN the lens and noticeable vignetting when at full zoom where the 550 didn't. And it just felt cheaper. My 550 feels solid as a rock in comparison.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:36 PM
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Dave, the way these manufacturers are going, we'll have cardboard cams in a couple of years.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Mine looked pretty good color-wise but had 4 visible spots IN the lens and noticeable vignetting when at full zoom where the 550 didn't. And it just felt cheaper. My 550 feels solid as a rock in comparison.

And the CX700, to me at least, had a much higher quality feel then the Panasonic 900 I had.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That's the best low light footage I've seen from an overall standpoint (color, sharpness & noise) of any consumer/prosumer camcorder I can recall. The colors are amazingly vibrant given the lighting. I can imagine how much better the native file looks!


Ken,

That footage does look very good. I wish the price was better on the Canon HF G10 out of the gate though.

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:30 PM
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Blasst, with such a short supply of these things and such a huge demand, these guys can almost name their price.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:55 PM
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I picked up the Pan TM900 home today. It is in a sealed box. I have about 10 days to A/B compare the Sony 560V with PanTM900 and at the end will decide which one is going back to Future Shop. I have a Canon 5DII + almost 10 Canon lens and a few Panasonic P/S cameras and have been taking photo as a hobby for 10 years. I bought a Sony camcorder 21 years ago to take video for my new born daughter for about 2 years than it was kept untouched somewhere in my house. After 21 years, I am interested again for a new camcorder because I want to take video for my younger son as he has joined a basket ball team. The new camcorder is mainly for this purpose and while travelling with family. Probably indoor (extremely low light is not necessary) shooting will be about 70%.
I need a camcorder at around $1000, small size, good feel in hand. As I said before, the only complaint of Sony is it's soft image (? at the edge, actually not too bad) in outdoor (I do not have chance to shoot at sunny day but only one time during a cloudy day at my driveway while my son was playing game with friend). Since people at this forum have been saying how good is the Pan in outdoor so I would like to give it a try and to compare. Yes, I hope the Sony can have a faster autofocus as well.
I will unpack the box after supper and will share my experience with you during and before I made my decision. Hopefully you guys can give me some input or advice as the camcorder will be kept for the next few years. Thanks
Here is really a very good place to learn. I have been following this site for many years to pick up my TV, blu-ray player and home theather.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by purplestinger View Post

Canon has already made it clear that there won't be any of the AX10's or HFg10's available PERIOD, Nothing is currently scheduled for arrival in the USA as of now. I'm only trying to be informative, not facetious. And who ever is taking your money either has not been informed yet? or simply will collect interest on your money while you wait.

purplestinger

Good to know the accuracy of your information is on par with the common decency in your posts.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I did notice it and it's the reason I didn't bother to download it. Just weird that you can't find a single 1920X1080 native file to download.


I'm sure we can count on you to take up the slack. I really want to see a native raw file and not some edited to death by Canon video.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post


I'm sure we can count on you to take up the slack. I really want to see a native raw file and not some edited to death by Canon video.

Hey, let's hope Vimeo gives me no trouble with uploads like I had with the 900. Given the XA is 1080i, I doubt there will be an issue.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CatKing View Post

I picked up the Pan TM900 home today. It is in a sealed box. I have about 10 days to A/B compare the Sony 560V with PanTM900 and at the end will decide which one is going back to Future Shop. I have a Canon 5DII + almost 10 Canon lens and a few Panasonic P/S cameras and have been taking photo as a hobby for 10 years. I bought a Sony camcorder 21 years ago to take video for my new born daughter for about 2 years than it was kept untouched somewhere in my house. After 21 years, I am interested again for a new camcorder because I want to take video for my younger son as he has joined a basket ball team. The new camcorder is mainly for this purpose and while travelling with family. Probably indoor (extremely low light is not necessary) shooting will be about 70%.
I need a camcorder at around $1000, small size, good feel in hand. As I said before, the only complaint of Sony is it's soft image (? at the edge, actually not too bad) in outdoor (I do not have chance to shoot at sunny day but only one time during a cloudy day at my driveway while my son was playing game with friend). Since people at this forum have been saying how good is the Pan in outdoor so I would like to give it a try and to compare. Yes, I hope the Sony can have a faster autofocus as well.
I will unpack the box after supper and will share my experience with you during and before I made my decision. Hopefully you guys can give me some input or advice as the camcorder will be kept for the next few years. Thanks
Here is really a very good place to learn. I have been following this site for many years to pick up my TV, blu-ray player and home theather.


I think most of us will be very interested in your opinion and any raw files you care to upload in 1920x1080 60p.
I just could not buy the Sony, it's autofocus was crap, the edges were almost never in focus and it just seemed mediocre in every way except low light.
The TM900 I had was useless in low light *for my purposes*. It was literally like looking through a thick screen door and if you dropped the gain enough to get rid of that, it was pitch black.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hey, let's hope Vimeo gives me no trouble with uploads like I had with the 900. Given the XA is 1080i, I doubt there will be an issue.


I'm still not sure why you had trouble with Vimeo. I just uploaded to YouTube as it was easier and I don't have a limit on YouTube like I do on Vimeo.
but all my stuff was bright outdoor light so nothing new there and the low light stuff from the TM900 wasn't worth posting and I deleted it.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:12 PM
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I'm still not sure why you had trouble with Vimeo. I just uploaded to YouTube as it was easier and I don't have a limit on YouTube like I do on Vimeo.
but all my stuff was bright outdoor light so nothing new there and the low light stuff from the TM900 wasn't worth posting and I deleted it.

Vimeo did not like my raw 1080p files. I think it has trouble with high bitrates.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:41 PM
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I have given up trying to post my HD videos on Viemo.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:14 PM
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Good to know the accuracy of your information is on par with the common decency in your posts.

Rofl SNAP!
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