Panasonic TM900 vs Sony CX560/700V vs Canon HF G10 Steel Cage Match Comparison Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 04:10 AM
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Yes, the second one is Sony (the first one is Sony at the previous comparison if my memory is not imparied) For color, the reference for you guys is the short fence around the tree is white. Since I was shooting around the backyard, my comment about color was sometimes Sony better but sometimes Pana. However you can see in the video, the CX560 is more stable (Pana was on my left hand may be a bit unfair but I did remind myself and always put my arms as close as to my chest. The Sony has wider angle. I notice sometimes the TM900(not always) could give sharper picture but overall it makes me feel more comfortable while veiwing the Sony clip. If daytime shoot is not day and night differene, I will like the CX506. The TM900 has more manual setting/control in order to make better picture, but I would only do a lot setting in taking photo because I can do it again and again if fail but probably taking video will not or only a few taps to the screen after turn it on. The Sony is smaller can put in my bag while I go to work and I had missed Sony for 5 year. I am looking at the edit 120 camcorder bag, for around $20 highly recommend for either Canon, Panasonic or Sony.
I will post the comparison of basket ball game and show one came from Sony when quota available.
btw, here is a very good place to discuss and share. Thx
Actually I want to buy the Panasonic GH2 but during the waiting, I met you guys over here and changed my mind why not getting a smaller size camcorder and saved $500 for the upgrade of Canon 5D III and will not wait for the Canon G10 as someone will do.
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post #182 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 06:24 AM
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Here is a super item that will really help you with using a Sony camcorder, I bought two for my Sonys.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ip_Tripod.html
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post #183 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 06:40 AM
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What do you mean by this?

also, from the previous posts, i doubt there is much chance the pany wins indoors setting specifics would help.
I havent read the posts since this, but I realized I misstyped, I meant, the pany loses indoors
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post #184 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CatKing View Post
Yes, the second one is Sony (the first one is Sony at the previous comparison if my memory is not imparied) .
I have not seen the new videos yet, only the original dog samples, but I would call the difference between the two cameras an important difference for overall quality of video, in that setting. Without the ability to render subtle hues, contrast, and depth, the general "feel" of the video will come across as stale and lifeless, IMO.

The people who said "number 1, it is sharper" did not really support it very well though if it were true (i did not see it) it is probably because of the focusing problems noted by cci, which is a killer if that is the case for a camera so incredibly sharp and detialed as the panys.

Now, the real reason I am saying all this is because I am mad at you now...you THINK the second in the first test was the pany?
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post #185 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Moviemaker4741
Here is a super item that will really help you with using a Sony camcorder, I bought two for my Sonys.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ip_Tripod.html
I agree. I have one too.


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post #186 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 07:10 AM
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I agree. I have one too.
Some good person posted about them a while back, I bought one for my Sony 560 then quickly ordered another for another Sony I had.
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post #187 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

I have not seen the new videos yet, only the original dog samples, but I would call the difference between the two cameras an important difference for overall quality of video, in that setting. Without the ability to render subtle hues, contrast, and depth, the general "feel" of the video will come across as stale and lifeless, IMO.

The people who said "number 1, it is sharper" did not really support it very well though if it were true (i did not see it) it is probably because of the focusing problems noted by cci, which is a killer if that is the case for a camera so incredibly sharp and detialed as the panys.

Now, the real reason I am saying all this is because I am mad at you now...you THINK the second in the first test was the pany?

I was one of those. Would the word 'crisper' have made more sense?
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post #188 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 07:55 AM
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I was one of those. Would the word 'crisper' have made more sense?

I mean, in terms of overall video quality. There is much more difference between them than simply a vague reference to sharpness. If the pany is noticeably less sharp then something dramatic has changed between the 700 and 900 serious. As I said, perhaps the focusing problems. I did not get to view it on a 1080 display, so I can not say for sure.
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post #189 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 07:59 AM
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As Ken noted in some other threads, he had 3 different tm900's, all different. One was noticeably less sharp than the other two. We have also seen a lot of variation in the cx700s. Maybe he got a really good 700 and a less than good 900?


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post #190 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

I mean, in terms of overall video quality. There is much more difference between them than simply a vague reference to sharpness. If the pany is noticeably less sharp then something dramatic has changed between the 700 and 900 serious. As I said, perhaps the focusing problems. I did not get to view it on a 1080 display, so I can not say for sure.

I actually think something may have changed. Unless my recollection is poor, I don't seem to remember this much blurring on panning with my 700...but I could be wrong.
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post #191 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 08:24 AM
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In the end I just wanted to know for sure that I was correct in my color analysis of video 2 A man cant always trust his own eyes you know? Purely selfish reasons.
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post #192 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 09:28 AM
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In the end I just wanted to know for sure that I was correct in my color analysis of video 2 A man cant always trust his own eyes you know? Purely selfish reasons.

If you'r videos color look good to you, why worry about how someone else feels about the colors. Just seems everyones eyes could see the color as being great, or being not so great.
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post #193 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

I mean, in terms of overall video quality. There is much more difference between them than simply a vague reference to sharpness. If the pany is noticeably less sharp then something dramatic has changed between the 700 and 900 serious. As I said, perhaps the focusing problems. I did not get to view it on a 1080 display, so I can not say for sure.

After viewing both videos, the 'sharpness/crispness' difference is what set them apart from my viewpoint. The 2nd video seemed rather 'drab'. As previously mentioned, our eyes are different and what looks good to me may not look good to someone else.
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post #194 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Moviemaker4741 View Post

Here is a super item that will really help you with using a Sony camcorder, I bought two for my Sonys.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ip_Tripod.html

Oh yes, thanks Moviemarker and Dave. For sure it is the next to buy for the Sony. I will buy it from B&H because even with the shipping cost it is less than in Toronto for more than $50 at Sony store.

One thing would also share with guys when I find sometimes the Pana image look sharper, it makes me feel it is somewhat artificial sharp.
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post #195 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Moviemaker4741 View Post

If you'r videos color look good to you, why worry about how someone else feels about the colors. Just seems everyones eyes could see the color as being great, or being not so great.

Agree, listen to others but pick the one that you feel right for you.
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post #196 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 05:13 PM
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Agree, listen to others but pick the one that you feel right for you.

What I meant was, I downloaded th videos, compared, paused, compared, watched compared. Then I picked my favorite, posted a lengthy post on the analysis, as I saw it, between the two...

and then you said you THINK the second was the pany...if you remember correctly.

kind of a stinker on that one man.
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post #197 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 06:49 PM
 
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Oh yes, thanks Moviemarker and Dave. For sure it is the next to buy for the Sony. I will buy it from B&H because even with the shipping cost it is less than in Toronto for more than $50 at Sony store.

One thing would also share with guys when I find sometimes the Pana image look sharper, it makes me feel it is somewhat artificial sharp.

Also get the Sony VCL-HGA07B Full Range Conversion Lens (0.75x). I have one on my Sony xr550 and loved it. I also bought raynox 0.66x wide angle for my Panny TM700, but corner of video shows vignetting. (I ordered the Panasonic - VW-W4607 Wide Conversion Lens today. I hope no vignetting if I use this on my TM700).

Don't know about sony CX560. But the Sony xr550 camcorder menu allows you to select the wide angle feature if wide angle lense attached.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...onversion.html
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post #198 of 270 Old 04-13-2011, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by workinghard View Post

What I meant was, I downloaded th videos, compared, paused, compared, watched compared. Then I picked my favorite, posted a lengthy post on the analysis, as I saw it, between the two...

and then you said you THINK the second was the pany...if you remember correctly.

kind of a stinker on that one man.

No, try to go back to previous page, I have never said or commented which was which in the first comparison. If it was, it is my bad. I intentionally changed the order of the two comparisons, I should have put the Sony be the first at the first comparison and put the Sony be the second at the second comparison to aviod bias from some of you because I really wanted to hear from you guys before I made my decision although I would pick the one I felt right to me.

You know what, when I had finished the 1st comparison, I subjectively felt the second clip (Pana) was better because I heard almost all comment the Pana performs better in daytime shooting before. But after I saw some of you expressed the 1st one (Sony) was better. I went back to veiw the two video again and again and agreed the Sony was better for me. So, after the 2nd comparison at my backyard and the basketaball game video, I began to put everything and TM900 back into it's original box.
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post #199 of 270 Old 04-14-2011, 04:16 AM
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No, try to go back to previous page, I have never said or commented which was which in the first comparison. If it was, it is my bad. I intentionally changed the order of the two comparisons, I should have put the Sony be the first at the first comparison and put the Sony be the second at the second comparison to aviod bias from some of you because I really wanted to hear from you guys before I made my decision although I would pick the one I felt right to me.

You know what, when I had finished the 1st comparison, I subjectively felt the second clip (Pana) was better because I heard almost all comment the Pana performs better in daytime shooting before. But after I saw some of you expressed the 1st one (Sony) was better. I went back to veiw the two video again and again and agreed the Sony was better for me. So, after the 2nd comparison at my backyard and the basketaball game video, I began to put everything and TM900 back into it's original box.

OK, now I am totally confused. Are we talking about videos 22101179 and 22100520 or some other videos?
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post #200 of 270 Old 04-14-2011, 04:59 AM
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It sounded as if he was saying it was the Sony clip that most people preferred when he said "That was most of you had made comment on my first post of comparison that the one which looked better was Sony"

The 22101179 and 22100520 was no longer existed in vimeo because of the storage limitation. Actually you can ignore them as they were shooting one after one. The recent comparison 22166964 and 22310596 give a better reference to me because it was shot at the same time by holding them in both hand. I am sure if the comparison was done by other people can be different because different people, different dog and different environment will make difference. Is person driving a BMW is smarter or smartest? No, definitely or may be, who know but doesn't matter as long as they enjoying driving in their vehicle.

As I have been emphphasizing that there is no right or wrong choice because God have not made exactly two same people. I will say my wife is the best but definitely you may not agree.

So the point is we discuss, share, pick the one you feel right and shoot happily.

I will post the comparison of basketball game next week. I hope you enjoy but at the time I could not refund my Sony
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post #201 of 270 Old 04-14-2011, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CatKing View Post

The 22101179 and 22100520 was no longer existed in vimeo because of the storage limitation. Actually you can ignore them as they were shooting one after one. The recent comparison 22166964 and 22310596 give a better reference to me because it was shot at the same time by holding them in both hand. I am sure if the comparison was done by other people can be different because different people, different dog and different environment will make difference. Is person driving a BMW is smarter or smartest? No, definitely or may be, who know but doesn't matter as long as they enjoying driving in their vehicle.

As I have been emphphasizing that there is no right or wrong choice because God have not made exactly two same people. I will say my wife is the best but definitely may not agree.

So the point is we discuss, share, pick the one you feel right and shoot happily.

I will post the comparison of basketball game next week. I hope you enjoy but at the time I could not refund my Sony

If there was a God up there then he would surely not have let Panny's quality control be so bad
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post #202 of 270 Old 04-14-2011, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post
As Ken noted in some other threads, he had 3 different tm900's, all different. One was noticeably less sharp than the other two. We have also seen a lot of variation in the cx700s. Maybe he got a really good 700 and a less than good 900?
damn, I hate that truth. I thought anything same model and brand is all the same
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post #203 of 270 Old 04-15-2011, 03:57 AM
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Pansonic claims their camera and camcorder are 100% made from Japan.

One thing I did not like the tm900 most was it's fan noise and some "cling, jing" sound coming from the machine during operation while I was reviewing video playback on the 3.5" screen. Probably there is some electronic parts/processor may generate quite an amount of heat. You know heat is a big enemy of electronic so even if it can produce better image quality, I somewhat reluctant to pick it up.
btw may be I am wrong, it seems Canon or Sony in this class does not need a fan or they have a better cooling system.
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post #204 of 270 Old 04-15-2011, 03:59 AM
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Sensors generate a lot of heat, and panasonic uses 3 sensors... combine that with its compact design, it needs a fan to expel the hot air
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post #205 of 270 Old 04-19-2011, 05:55 PM
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Here is the basket ball game comparison link.
http://www.vimeo.com/22630158
http://www.vimeo.com/22629553
I rather enjoy the video quality from a $1000 camcorder while viewing full screen at my Samsung 850 LCD connected with WD Live TV. It is better than seeing from my Dell 2711 monitor.
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post #206 of 270 Old 04-19-2011, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatKing View Post

Here is the basket ball game comparison link.
http://www.vimeo.com/22630158
http://www.vimeo.com/22629553
I rather enjoy the video quality from a $1000 camcorder while viewing full screen at my Samsung 850 LCD connected with WD Live TV. It is better than seeing from my Dell 2711 monitor.


Looks really good although if they got any closer to your camera you should get the 3D lens so you could have more of a shock effect.
I thought the guy was going to wipe out your camera.
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post #207 of 270 Old 04-19-2011, 06:28 PM
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I finally compared the sony xr550 to the canon hf g10 side by side and I can tell u that in very very low light :

1) the canon retains much better colors

2) the canon videos look terrible...they are very very grainy in comparison to the sony

3) the sony colors are not retained

4) yes the canon can see a little better in lower light...meaning the video looks brighter on the canon vs the sony, but the Noise is too much on the canon and much much less on the sony. Colos are more vivid on the canon than on the sony...but again the canon videos are NOT usable...too much noise....

The canon was with :

back light compensation on
auto gain on

the sony was with:

backlight compensation on
low light on
Ws and As = +4

again, I prefer the sony videos even if they are less colored....the canon videos are too grainy..unusable...also if u set up the gain on the canon to a lower value to avoid grainess, the sony videos look brighter..

so again, I own both the camcorders. I do NOT work for any of the companies. I can tell u that sony is better and I think is the KING in low light, because there i very low noise in comparison to canon...what is the point for the canon to retain colors and maybe be a little brighter , but have so much noise ?

I think I a going to return the canon. I am thinking to try the new sony cx700/560 .....but I am worried that is worst than the 550.

Also for the focus....yes the canon can focus better, but it seems that the face tracking of the sony is better.
What I mean is that in very very dim light, u can still see th square around the face of the subject on the sony, while on the canon disappears. The problem of the sony is that , if it lose track of a face in very very dim light, the sony becomes out of focus, but I am talking of very very low light (I had all the light off. I had a very dim lamp that can regulate the intensity gradually fom no light to bright light. So I was going slowly from bright light to no light, decreasing nd increasing the light...) In all the conditions above , the canon was more noisy....

I hope this help.
I wish someone could confirm what I found out...
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post #208 of 270 Old 04-19-2011, 06:58 PM
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Here is the basket ball game comparison link.
http://www.vimeo.com/22630158
http://www.vimeo.com/22629553
I rather enjoy the video quality from a $1000 camcorder while viewing full screen at my Samsung 850 LCD connected with WD Live TV. It is better than seeing from my Dell 2711 monitor.

Well, the sony is the obvious winner in this line-up. There are some aspects of the pany clip where I still like the colors more, but it is clearly failing due to low light casting that yellow dim hue over the whole scene (though I think you may have set the db level?, as there was (EDIT: NOT...kind of a key word to leave out) significant noise, so it could have been brightened a bit without negative impacts, and I am not confident the wb was set correctly), but regardless, the Sony is far superior in this heads-up.

Putting the actual video quality aside, the wider angle lens makes all the difference. There is simply no competition in this match-up, and for your application the better color rendering of the pany outdoors (which I find to be truly significant to ones overall pleasure of video) is totally irrelevant, as the Sony is so much better for these basketball games. Maybe with a wide angle lens attachment the pany would come close, but it would still not be as good for this application.

Also, some thoughts,

If you are shooting from the floor, maybe you should leave the basic OIS mode on?

Also, I think you might want to try your hand at manual focus, set it and leave it, as the focus shifts when the players come near and is quite distracting.

Overall, the Sony was a fantastic pick for you.
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post #209 of 270 Old 04-19-2011, 07:14 PM
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I will post a clip by Sony in the same basket ball game later with zoom in and out. It is really enjoyable and I found it even looked better (brighter and clearer) while zoom in.
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post #210 of 270 Old 04-19-2011, 07:30 PM
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Well, the sony is the obvious winner in this line-up. There are some aspects of the pany clip where I still like the colors more, but it is clearly failing due to low light casting that yellow dim hue over the whole scene (though I think you may have set the db level?, as there was significant noise, so it could have been brightened a bit without negative impacts, and I am not confident the wb was set correctly), but regardless, the Sony is far superior in this heads-up.

Putting the actual video quality aside, the wider angle lens makes all the difference. There is simply no competition in this match-up, and for your application the better color rendering of the pany outdoors (which I find to be truly significant to ones overall pleasure of video) is totally irrelevant, as the Sony is so much better for these basketball games. Maybe with a wide angle lens attachment the pany would come close, but it would still not be as good for this application.

Also, some thoughts,

If you are shooting from the floor, maybe you should leave the basic OIS mode on?

Also, I think you might want to try your hand at manual focus, set it and leave it, as the focus shifts when the players come near and is quite distracting.

Overall, the Sony was a fantastic pick for you.

I did try shooting handheld with Sony but not manual focus. Yes, it is a very good idea, I will try to learn that and post later.

Would like to let some of you know the two camcorder was mounting on different tripot and put as close as possible. Everything in the camcorder was set to auto and steadyshot off. The wider len of Sony does make the video more pleasurable. I have ordered a white color card for help setting manual WB and a Sony wide angle len from B&H (my God, much more cheaper than buying in Toronto). Just received today, will test it and post later.
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