Panasonic TM900 vs Sony CX560/700V vs Canon HF G10 Steel Cage Match Comparison Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 270 Old 05-15-2011, 09:10 PM
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The nx-70 looks like it has some manual control buttons so I could actually control iris and focus.I think I can lock gain and shutter. In real world shooting I need buttons,not lcd driven controls. Now please somebody give me nd filters!
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post #242 of 270 Old 05-31-2011, 10:20 PM
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Hiii all! I'm brand new to this so go easy on me
I have been studying on your forums & these 3 cameras for over a week now and I am so stuck!!
I am making a low budget documentary in my area, all these cameras seem to be great I obviously want the best picture I can get, I will be using a shotgun mic. I am not the greatest when it comes to editing as I am still quite new to it all so something thats going to be complicated I will get very lost. I live in Australia so these cameras are going to be a bit more expensive to me so even if you have other cameras you could recommend that would be very much appreciated! So I'm just curious to see what everyones thoughts are on these cameras, which one do you own and would you recommend that? Thanks so much guys, your info in the owners threads have been so helpful but when you have 3 good cameras to choose from and no experience with camcorders yet I am so lost haha
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post #243 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintour View Post

Hiii all! I'm brand new to this so go easy on me
I have been studying on your forums & these 3 cameras for over a week now and I am so stuck!!
I am making a low budget documentary in my area, all these cameras seem to be great I obviously want the best picture I can get, I will be using a shotgun mic. I am not the greatest when it comes to editing as I am still quite new to it all so something thats going to be complicated I will get very lost. I live in Australia so these cameras are going to be a bit more expensive to me so even if you have other cameras you could recommend that would be very much appreciated! So I'm just curious to see what everyones thoughts are on these cameras, which one do you own and would you recommend that? Thanks so much guys, your info in the owners threads have been so helpful but when you have 3 good cameras to choose from and no experience with camcorders yet I am so lost haha


A camcorder is a tool. You need to define what you will be using it for.
Also your price range. For some things a DSLR would be best, for others a Camcorder. Are you doing, bright light mostly or low light? Run and Gun or do you have a long time to setup your shots?
You can buy a $25,000 camera that will not do as good a job as a $2,000 camcorder depending on your needs.
But since I started this thread here is a simple list, not exhaustive.

Panasonic SD/TM900
PRO: Great Bright Light Performance, 1080p60p (50p in Oz)
CONS: Average low light performance, 1080p60p files are a PAIN to edit and the bitrate can crash a PS3, so you need a different playback device.

Sony CX560/700
PROS: The Best Image stabiliation, 1080p50p
CONS: has slow autofocus and will hunt for focus in low light, few manual controls 50p files a pain to edit. They will play ok on a PS3 tho.

Canon HF G10/XA10
PROS: Very good Bright and Low light capability, 1080p60i easier to edit, lots of manual controls
CONS: Dynamic OIS is wonky but thankfully unneeded, it is mandatory if you use auto mode, which you shouldn't

This is a simple list you could add a lot more pros and cons to all of these.
These are the main ones.
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post #244 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Panasonic SD/TM900
PRO: Great Bright Light Performance, 1080p60p (50p in Oz)
CONS: Average low light performance, 1080p60p files are a PAIN to edit and the bitrate can crash a PS3, so you need a different playback device.

Sony CX560/700
PROS: The Best Image stabiliation, 1080p50p
CONS: has slow autofocus and will hunt for focus in low light, few manual controls 50p files a pain to edit. They will play ok on a PS3 tho.

Canon HF G10/XA10
PROS: Very good Bright and Low light capability, 1080p60i easier to edit, lots of manual controls
CONS: Dynamic OIS is wonky but thankfully unneeded, it is mandatory if you use auto mode, which you shouldn't

So which of these would you get to take video of the kids growing up?
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post #245 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 07:22 AM
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Since you'll be taking shots of the kids inside & outside, I'd go with the best all-around performer, the G10/XA10.
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post #246 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 12:18 PM
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Ken,

I beg to differ. I find that for most people the Sony/Panasonic end up being a bit better. I don't disagree on the quality of the picture of the Canons, but....

a) both of the cams are smaller.
b) for a regular person running around after children they are much more manageable and better in Auto Mode, even with all their other shortcomings.
c) They are also cheaper and do enough well to warrant saving some money.
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post #247 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpeant View Post

So which of these would you get to take video of the kids growing up?


I think that would depend. If you want a Point and Shoot camcorder. Buy the Panasonic TM900 or the Sony CX560.
If you want full manual control but a useless auto mode get the Canon.
The Panasonic has more settings but will still be a P&S and the Sony has better Image Stabilization.
Honestly I'd go to Best Buy if I were you and try out the Sony CX560 first.
They try out the Panasonic somewhere.
If full manual controls don't bother you, go right to the Canon HF G10.
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post #248 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

Ken,

I beg to differ. I find that for most people the Sony/Panasonic end up being a bit better. I don't disagree on the quality of the picture of the Canons, but....

a) both of the cams are smaller.
b) for a regular person running around after children they are much more manageable and better in Auto Mode, even with all their other shortcomings.
c) They are also cheaper and do enough well to warrant saving some money.

I can see your points. I guess it depends on how deep the purchaser's pockets are and how much they enjoy delving into manual modes. For full auto operation, I'd agree the Panny or Sonys would be better. I think the Panasonic has much better PQ than the Sony, but the Sony does have a better stabilizer.

No right or wrong answer here, just choices.
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post #249 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 10:31 PM
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Thanks so much for the quick reply all
They all seem like such great cameras but when you haven't had much experience with these brands and camcorders it's so hard to know what I should just go for.
I'm really heading in the direction of the Canon but unfortunately its just money holding me back for that one, I don't know maybe I could really try to shop around the net.

And a reply to steve (thank you for the detailed post) I guess a bit of both to be honest,
its going to be equally inside and outdoor and ideally yes I would love to be using a run and gun kit, wont be to much time setting up shots to begin with as were going to be pretty low budget. As I said up above I am heading with the Canon, I think it does sound like the best choice for what I need?
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post #250 of 270 Old 06-01-2011, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintour View Post

Thanks so much for the quick reply all
They all seem like such great cameras but when you haven't had much experience with these brands and camcorders it's so hard to know what I should just go for.
I'm really heading in the direction of the Canon but unfortunately its just money holding me back for that one, I don't know maybe I could really try to shop around the net.

And a reply to steve (thank you for the detailed post) I guess a bit of both to be honest,
its going to be equally inside and outdoor and ideally yes I would love to be using a run and gun kit, wont be to much time setting up shots to begin with as were going to be pretty low budget. As I said up above I am heading with the Canon, I think it does sound like the best choice for what I need?


Happy to help.
I had the Panasonic TM900, I've used the Sony CX560 and I currently own the Canon HF G10.
The Canon will cover all your needs but you will have to learn the settings as full auto mode really has no major adjustments and it uses Dynamic OIS and you'll want to stay away from that.
If the Panasonic was better in low light then that would be the one to get but it's grainy in low light.
Of course how low is low light is always the issue.
The Canon requires thinking and setting up the shots which can take a few seconds. The TM900 is literally set to auto and press record.
The Sony's autofocus hunts a lot in low light, but other than that it's pretty good.
If you can try before you buy, then do so.
Go to a local camera store or a Best Buy. Try out a few camcorders.
In the end it's your money and your decision.
$1,499 is a lot of money, but then again $1,099 and $999 are a lot of money as well.

You could also buy the Panasonic TM750
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-...6993332&sr=8-1

For $749 you can't go wrong and you don't need the 3D attachment so just put it in the closet.

It'll save you over the TM900 if you decide to get a Panasonic.
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post #251 of 270 Old 07-03-2011, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Since you'll be taking shots of the kids inside & outside, I'd go with the best all-around performer, the G10/XA10.

Wouldn't the Canon M4xx series be a fairer comparison, seeing as the G10 is significantly more expensive than the Panasonic SD/TM900?
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post #252 of 270 Old 07-16-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

Ken,

I beg to differ. I find that for most people the Sony/Panasonic end up being a bit better. I don't disagree on the quality of the picture of the Canons, but....

a) both of the cams are smaller.
b) for a regular person running around after children they are much more manageable and better in Auto Mode, even with all their other shortcomings.
c) They are also cheaper and do enough well to warrant saving some money.

I would think the lower price point of the Canon M4xx series addresses item c, and then some, with prices under $700.
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post #253 of 270 Old 11-20-2011, 01:58 PM
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Hi.

I'm entering this moment in the thread, and planning to buy on few days my first camcorder, specially to make home movies of my young Sofia.

Most was explained about the diferences between Sony CX 550/560V, Panasonic TM 900 and Canon HF G10, in terms of video quality, specially in good and poor light conditions.

However, i would like to know, from you experienced members of the forum, about the audio quality of these models.

Wich camcorder can extract more accurate audio from the ambient, in stereo and 5.1 ch mode?

Thanks.

Best regards.
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post #254 of 270 Old 11-20-2011, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cristiano Arndt View Post

Hi.

I'm entering this moment in the thread, and planning to buy on few days my first camcorder, specially to make home movies of my young Sofia.

Most was explained about the diferences between Sony CX 550/560V, Panasonic TM 900 and Canon HF G10, in terms of video quality, specially in good and poor light conditions.

However, i would like to know, from you experienced members of the forum, about the audio quality of these models.

Wich camcorder can extract more accurate audio from the ambient, in stereo and 5.1 ch mode?

Thanks.

Best regards.


I'm happy with the audio I get from my HF G10 but it you want better you should use an external mike regardless of camcorder brand.
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post #255 of 270 Old 11-24-2011, 07:28 AM
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Dear Steve.

I decided and bought the Sony CX560V today, and i hope to be happy with this camcorder.

I made a quick test with this model in a Sony Store here in Rio de Janeiro before buy it in a online shop. I put a SD card in the camcorder and record two few 1080/60P minutes movies inside the store. When play it in my macbook pro at home, the movies were so hard to play. The video caught evey time, in other words, my mac can't play the recorded movies.

On the other hand, the mac play Ok the youtube 1080/60P movies from the internet.

In this case, what the diference between these movies? Can you explain something with your experience?

Thanks.

Cristiano Arndt
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post #256 of 270 Old 11-24-2011, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure, the Mac cannot play MTS, files you have to convert them first with Clipwrap, I believe. I don't own a Mac but that is what I recall others doing.
This would also be true for say a Panasonic TM900, it's not Sony or Panny or Canon, it's the MTS file those create.
YouTube converts the file using it's own codecs and the like so they generally will play on most computers.
I hope that helps.
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post #257 of 270 Old 11-24-2011, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Sure, the Mac cannot play MTS, files you have to convert them first with Clipwrap, I believe. I don't own a Mac but that is what I recall others doing.
This would also be true for say a Panasonic TM900, it's not Sony or Panny or Canon, it's the MTS file those create.
YouTube converts the file using it's own codecs and the like so they generally will play on most computers.
I hope that helps.

Steve. I don't converted the movie recorded, just play it using VLC player. I think that was not a compatibility problem, but maybe because it don't have a dedicated graphics accelerator.

Thanks again.
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post #258 of 270 Old 11-24-2011, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano Arndt View Post

Steve. I don't converted the movie recorded, just play it using VLC player. I think that was not a compatibility problem, but maybe because it don't have a dedicated graphics accelerator.

Thanks again.

I think you NEED to convert the video to watch it on the Mac.
If you do a search on AVS you will find the answer to your problem. The Mac guys have a solution. I've seen it posted in the past.
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post #259 of 270 Old 11-25-2011, 09:43 AM
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Newegg.com tm900 for sale only $599 on black Friday, Hurry, deal may last couple hours or day. I just ordered one.
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post #260 of 270 Old 11-25-2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano Arndt View Post

Steve. I don't converted the movie recorded, just play it using VLC player. I think that was not a compatibility problem, but maybe because it don't have a dedicated graphics accelerator.

Thanks again.

When the movie is converted it loses quality?
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post #261 of 270 Old 11-25-2011, 01:54 PM
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youtube /watch?v=D3zIzHvfc-M

TM900 seems to be bad at low light. HF M41 = HF M406/ HF M 46 / HF G10 (same canon HD pro sensor)
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post #262 of 270 Old 11-27-2011, 11:36 AM
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Another comparison between the canon and sony.

I made some print screen in the highest resolution available (1080p for the canon HFM41, and "original" for the sony Cx700). I didn't make any modification.
The video are here :

youtube /watch?v=KYPVdDjhnxg
youtube /watch?v=9CGvjeRWJzM

I don't have any preference between canon, pana or sony...
But lol the results in low light with the M41 are impressive ! the low lux mode of the sony is interesting but produce noisy picture (look at the flare)...
I will go for canon
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post #263 of 270 Old 11-27-2011, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano Arndt View Post

When the movie is converted it loses quality?


Generally speaking yes, but I really don't know what Mac does to the file, but most editing programs are slightly less quality.
You need to find out what Clipwrap does to the file. It might not lose anything, I just don't know.
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post #264 of 270 Old 11-27-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiano Arndt View Post

When the movie is converted it loses quality?

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Video/ClipWrap.shtml
"ClipWrap rewraps the video samples from your existing m2t files without re-encoding them. This means that it can convert at high speed, without altering the image quality."

From what I have seen on my own Macintosh, the conversion does not cause a loss of image quality. Clipwrap converts the 1080/60p videos from my Panasonic SD90 in seconds to Apple Quicktime .mov files which play smoothly on my 4 year old Mac with old system 10.4.11.
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post #265 of 270 Old 11-27-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post


From what I have seen on my own Macintosh, the conversion does not cause a loss of image quality. Clipwrap converts the 1080/60p videos from my Panasonic SD90 in seconds to Apple Quicktime .mov files which play smoothly on my 4 year old Mac with old system 10.4.11.

If you don't want to pay $50, "Rewrap2M4V" does the same thing, for free.

Cheers,
Ian

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post #266 of 270 Old 12-12-2011, 09:00 PM
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So I am looking to buy a camcorder for mainly home video of kids growing up etc and I seem to have settled on either the Panasonic TM900 or the Canon HF M41.

It seems the M41 does way better in low light, but the TM900 takes higher quality and truer color video.

Any expert advice?

The M41 is $399 and the TM900 is $599.

Thanks.
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post #267 of 270 Old 12-12-2011, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahayman View Post

It seems the M41 does way better in low light, but the TM900 takes higher quality and truer color video.
Any expert advice? The M41 is $399 and the TM900 is $599.
Thanks.

The M41 is a midrange camcorder like the TM90. So you really shouldn't be comparing it to the high end TM900. If you check out the low light test reviews at camcorderinfo.com you'll see the M40/41 is rated "incredible" for low light performance and the TM90 "solid", the TM900 "good"

Outdoors the situation is reversed; the Panasonics are incredible and the Canons merely good.
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post #268 of 270 Old 12-13-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

The M41 is a midrange camcorder like the TM90. So you really shouldn't be comparing it to the high end TM900. If you check out the low light test reviews at camcorderinfo.com you'll see the M40/41 is rated "incredible" for low light performance and the TM90 "solid", the TM900 "good"

Outdoors the situation is reversed; the Panasonics are incredible and the Canons merely good.

Thanks. So comparing the TM90 and the M40/41 it seems that that the TM90 has an amazing zoom and wide lens compared to the M40/41.

So at $329 for the TM90 and $349 for the M40 it would seem that unless most of the footage will be in low light, I would be better off getting the TM90 for the longer zoom and wider lens? Any other major differences to be aware of?
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post #269 of 270 Old 12-13-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahayman View Post

Thanks. So comparing the TM90 and the M40/41 it seems that that the TM90 has an amazing zoom and wide lens compared to the M40/41.

So at $329 for the TM90 and $349 for the M40 it would seem that unless most of the footage will be in low light, I would be better off getting the TM90 for the longer zoom and wider lens? Any other major differences to be aware of?

$329 is an incredible price for a new TM90. I paid $369 before Thanksgiving. I really wanted the Canon, but the Panny's smaller, lighter size, and wide/tele zoom were the clinchers in this price range. It also has native 1080p mode and "smile shot", when enabled takes still pictures while recording video of scenes where a smiling face is detected. Pretty cool feature. I, personally, would have gone Canon G10, if I had another $1K burning a hole in my pocket.
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post #270 of 270 Old 12-13-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

The M41 is a midrange camcorder like the TM90. So you really shouldn't be comparing it to the high end TM900.

Why not? Here is a comparison to ya: the TM900 has more features and is brilliant in good light, but it is worse in low light. Oh, and while the TM900 is not a usability king, the M4X is much worse.
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