Offical Canon HF G10 Jello-Vision Problem Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 194 Old 04-21-2011, 06:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BigHAZE View Post
You can use the wireless remote control to easily zoom and start and stop recording.

The XA10 would work fine on the Hague. I actually bought it for my Canon 60D but with my big lenses, it was too heavy. I am only using 5 of the counterbalance weights, and there are 3 more that you could use with XA10. I would EMAIL them to be sure, but the handle and the battery shouldn't be a problem. I am using the MEDIUM Canon battery and I have no issues with IT or the STOCK battery.

It DOES take some practice...but for $122 on EBAY..you really can't beat it.

I will post up the videos tomorrow. (I SUCK with this thing) but you can see there is NO Jello.
amazon sells almost similar for $99.99

http://www.amazon.com/Lensse-MidX-Ca...3437578&sr=1-1
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post #92 of 194 Old 04-21-2011, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHAZE View Post
You can use the wireless remote control to easily zoom and start and stop recording.

The XA10 would work fine on the Hague. I actually bought it for my Canon 60D but with my big lenses, it was too heavy. I am only using 5 of the counterbalance weights, and there are 3 more that you could use with XA10. I would EMAIL them to be sure, but the handle and the battery shouldn't be a problem. I am using the MEDIUM Canon battery and I have no issues with IT or the STOCK battery.

It DOES take some practice...but for $122 on EBAY..you really can't beat it.

I will post up the videos tomorrow. (I SUCK with this thing) but you can see there is NO Jello.

Can you post some videos of it in action? I'd love to see if it clears up the jellovision that you had from earlier videos.
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post #93 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ed lynn View Post

amazon sells almost similar for $99.99

http://www.amazon.com/Lensse-MidX-Ca...3437578&sr=1-1


Wow..that is darn near identical. I could have saved $80 in international shipping. That is what I was telling Steve he should make and charge $99 for.
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post #94 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 08:36 AM
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I got one of these types off eBay last year and used it once and that was it. IMHO it took too long too balance each time I wanted to shoot and I wound up using an opteka x grip and then eventually a Halorig hd. The stabilizer with the weight is cool but you are really limited to the type of shot you can get. Virtually impossible to shoot from lower than the waist and making a sudden turn just pitched it right over.
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post #95 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

I got one of these types off eBay last year and used it once and that was it. IMHO it took too long too balance each time I wanted to shoot and I wound up using an opteka x grip and then eventually a Halorig hd. The stabilizer with the weight is cool but you are really limited to the type of shot you can get. Virtually impossible to shoot from lower than the waist and making a sudden turn just pitched it right over.

Dave with the halo rig are you using the cameras IS system or shutting it off. I was going to attempt to make a balance type with 3/8 threaded rod, rod/link bearing, and weights. Do You like the halorig more then a balance weight type rig. You have any clips with the halo rig thanks.
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post #96 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gso125 View Post


Dave with the halo rig are you using the cameras IS system or shutting it off. I was going to attempt to make a balance type with 3/8 threaded rod, rod/link bearing, and weights. Do You like the halorig more then a balance weight type rig. You have any clips with the halo rig thanks.


Hiya gso!

I actually did leave the IS on for this clip
which I shot the night I got the Halorig. The shot of my kid at the table and the last shot Of her in the stroller I took one handed with the rig being held down by my side one handed which floats the camera about a foot or so off the floor. That kind of shot walking wouldn't be easy or maybe even possible with the other stabilizer I have with the weights. Also the Halorig hd kit comes with a hotshoe mount, ( I ordered 2...) so you could very easily attach a light or mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lZd96jOIsY



http://www.halorig.com/index.php/hal...tabilizer-shop


To be fair it's not a true stabilizer with counterweights but for me it works better.
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post #97 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 10:16 AM
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Video looks very good with the halo rig. I just might get one. If the wife and kids give me a free moment this weekend I'm going to experiment and make one. But most likly buying one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Hiya gso!

I actually did leave the IS on for this clip
which I shot the night I got the Halorig. The shot of my kid at the table and the last shot Of her in the stroller I took one handed with the rig being held down by my side one handed which floats the camera about a foot or so off the floor. That kind of shot walking wouldn't be easy or possible with the other. Also the Halorig hd kit comes with a hotshoe mount, ( I ordered 2...) so you could very easily attach a light or mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lZd96jOIsY



http://www.halorig.com/index.php/hal...tabilizer-shop


To be fair it's not a true stabilizer with counterweights but for me it works better.

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post #98 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

Video looks very good with the halo rig. I just might get one. If the wife and kids give me a free moment this weekend I'm going to experiment and make one. But most likly buying one.

I think both have their strengths and uses. If i had more time and more patience i would probably use my counterweight stabilizer more but I work 6 days a week often 10 hours a day at my dayjob and have a three year old so the little free time I get to do video projects has to be done very quickly.
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post #99 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 11:18 AM
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Ok..the footage is up on YouTube. I shot in STANDARD image stabilization and I don't see any wobble or jello. I SUCK with the stabilizer as I haven't had enough practice yet, but it will work fine for what I am wanting to do with it.

What are your thoughts?

(If the video doesn't come up...give it a few minutes..I just posted it)

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post #100 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 01:08 PM
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I was only able to load about 1/2 the video BigHAZE (gotta love the internet connections here in Italy), but I saw no evidence of jello...zero. So unless your 2nd half had it, it looks good. This is with a G10, correct?
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post #101 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

I think both have their strengths and uses. If i had more time and more patience i would probably use my counterweight stabilizer more but I work 6 days a week often 10 hours a day at my dayjob and have a three year old so the little free time I get to do video projects has to be done very quickly.

I'm with you I have a 2 year old and 4 month old and work 14 hour days but I get my weekends off.(not really wife puts me to work lol) To get 5 minutes of free time is golden. I love the way the weight and balance stabilizers make the video float. But I am also very interested in the halorig. There is no jellovision with either of the type of rigs. I watched the vids of kids snowboarding with a PVC pipe rig it was s great clip. My questions on the balance rigs is the bottom weight the same weight as the camera or is it more to make it work like a pendulum.
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post #102 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

I'm with you I have a 2 year old and 4 month old and work 14 hour days but I get my weekends off.(not really wife puts me to work lol) To get 5 minutes of free time is golden. I love the way the weight and balance stabilizers make the video float. But I am also very interested in the halorig. There is no jellovision with either of the type of rigs. I watched the vids of kids snowboarding with a PVC pipe rig it was s great clip. My questions on the balance rigs is the bottom weight the same weight as the camera or is it more to make it work like a pendulum.

I am with you I have 3/7/10 year olds and that pretty much sums up my time limitations. So post where I can get these, because the less issues with video on a camcorder means less time editing.
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post #103 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigHAZE View Post

Ok..the footage is up on YouTube. I shot in STANDARD image stabilization and I don't see any wobble or jello. I SUCK with the stabilizer as I haven't had enough practice yet, but it will work fine for what I am wanting to do with it.

What are your thoughts?

(If the video doesn't come up...give it a few minutes..I just posted it)


No Jello here but it looks like you bumped it a couple of times, also looks like it's not balanced quite right.
But that's to be expected with a new unit.
Looks like the IS is the problem with the HF G10 after all.
Did you try it on Dynamic IS to see if you got any jello?
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post #104 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I was only able to load about 1/2 the video BigHAZE (gotta love the internet connections here in Italy), but I saw no evidence of jello...zero. So unless your 2nd half had it, it looks good. This is with a G10, correct?


Yes
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post #105 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

No Jello here but it looks like you bumped it a couple of times, also looks like it's not balanced quite right.
But that's to be expected with a new unit.
Looks like the IS is the problem with the HF G10 after all.
Did you try it on Dynamic IS to see if you got any jello?

Yes....I made a video with DYNAMIC, but there was no jello...so I didn't post it. I also did a video with I.S. OFF, so if I can find it...I may post it. There was NO jello in that one either.
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post #106 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigHAZE View Post

Yes....I made a video with DYNAMIC, but there was no jello...so I didn't post it. I also did a video with I.S. OFF, so if I can find it...I may post it. There was NO jello in that one either.


That's what I figured Canon's IS has some problems and when you use a stabilizer then you take the IS out of the equation.
Good to know all we need to do is use a tripod or a stabilizer rig.
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post #107 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

That's what I figured Canon's IS has some problems and when you use a stabilizer then you take the IS out of the equation.
Good to know all we need to do is use a tripod or a stabilizer rig.

Hi Steve:

I am sorry Steve, I don't think you understood the test, basically the test that I asked you to do when you get your new G10. What you took out of the equation is the technique of shooting smooth video while walking, because now the camera is on a gimbal and as such is not subject to the bumps and jerks that simple walking can do and therefore produce (sometimes) the Jello effect if is done too rapidly. Haze just said he used all three IS modes and there is no Jello, he just demonstrated to you that is not the IS.!!!!!

The principle of the stabilizer is to eliminate the errors introduced in Walking by the operator. There is variation from camera to camera, some do it better than others. I think haze did a very good job by using all 3 IS modes.

Think of the steadycam as a walking tripod,of sorts.

Luidoly
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post #108 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 05:48 PM
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Here is the video of the HF G10 on the Hague Mini Motion Cam stabilizer with the I.S. OFF.

Thoughts?

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post #109 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luidoly View Post

Hi Steve:

I am sorry Steve, I don't think you understood the test, basically the test that I asked you to do when you get your new G10. What you took out of the equation is the technique of shooting smooth video while walking, because now the camera is on a gimbal and as such is not subject to the bumps and jerks that simple walking can do and therefore produce (sometimes) the Jello effect if is done too rapidly. Haze just said he used all three IS modes and there is no Jello, he just demonstrated to you that is not the IS.!!!!!

The principle of the stabilizer is to eliminate the errors introduced in Walking by the operator. There is variation from camera to camera, some do it better than others. I think haze did a very good job by using all 3 IS modes.

Think of the steadycam as a walking tripod,of sorts.

Luidoly


Right what I am saying is that Canon's OIS, if you do not use a stabilizer rig, cannot compensate for the movement the camera makes when walking or panning.
The Panasonic and the Sony do not seem to have this problem. So maybe it is their new smaller sensor with larger pixels?
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post #110 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigHAZE View Post

Here is the video of the HF G10 on the Hague Mini Motion Cam stabilizer with the I.S. OFF.

Thoughts?


No Jello at all in that clip. Looks like the OIS causes the problem since the Hague is the stabilizer and you don't use the one in the cam.
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post #111 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post



Right what I am saying is that Canon's OIS, if you do not use a stabilizer rig, cannot compensate for the movement the camera makes when walking or panning.
The Panasonic and the Sony do not seem to have this problem. So maybe it is their new smaller sensor with larger pixels?

I have been lurking on this issue for a while, having bought a G10 last week, and I must say that I am confused by your statements Steve. You seem to understand that there was likely something wrong with the camera that you returned, but you continue to express the view that there is something inherently flawed with this camera, which I take issue with. I have been shooting hours of footage with this camera, and unless I am blind or stupid, I do not see anything wrong with the stabilization at all. I see some normal jitter that one always sees when shooting with a small handheld camera, which cannot be eliminated by ANY consumer camera. But all this business about systemic defects in the Canon IS system is unfounded and unsupported. other than your statements on this forum and a few me-toos, I have heard no other complaints anywhere.

By the way, I was shooting in a strong wind yesterday, and I noticed that the open LCD acted almost like a sail. On the clip that you posted, I noticed a LOT of wind noise. Holding a camera steady in those conditions is well nigh impossible. Just a thought...
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post #112 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luidoly View Post

Hi Steve:

I am sorry Steve, I don't think you understood the test, basically the test that I asked you to do when you get your new G10. What you took out of the equation is the technique of shooting smooth video while walking, because now the camera is on a gimbal and as such is not subject to the bumps and jerks that simple walking can do and therefore produce (sometimes) the Jello effect if is done too rapidly. Haze just said he used all three IS modes and there is no Jello, he just demonstrated to you that is not the IS.!!!!!

The principle of the stabilizer is to eliminate the errors introduced in Walking by the operator. There is variation from camera to camera, some do it better than others. I think haze did a very good job by using all 3 IS modes.

Think of the steadycam as a walking tripod,of sorts.

Luidoly


Ok? But isn't that why manufactures put stabilization into a camcorder? To try eliminate wobble and jitter etc.. I mean if I have to go out and spend 150-200 bucks for a stabilization unit for a camcorder they didn't get it right in the first place.

But, considering how much that Hague device cost, now I want one! LOL
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post #113 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogyellowdog View Post

I have been lurking on this issue for a while, having bought a G10 last week, and I must say that I am confused by your statements Steve. You seem to understand that there was likely something wrong with the camera that you returned, but you continue to express the view that there is something inherently flawed with this camera, which I take issue with. I have been shooting hours of footage with this camera, and unless I am blind or stupid, I do not see anything wrong with the stabilization at all. I see some normal jitter that one always sees when shooting with a small handheld camera, which cannot be eliminated by ANY consumer camera. But all this business about systemic defects in the Canon IS system is unfounded and unsupported. other than your statements on this forum and a few me-toos, I have heard no other complaints anywhere.

By the way, I was shooting in a strong wind yesterday, and I noticed that the open LCD acted almost like a sail. On the clip that you posted, I noticed a LOT of wind noise. Holding a camera steady in those conditions is well nigh impossible. Just a thought...

Hi Dogyellowdog:

I agree, Steve keeps missing the importance of the Test that Haze just did, I have seen his clip maybe now over 10 times I even dream with it.

He keeps blaming the OIS, comparing the Panny or the Sony which in reality they are very good, if you know what to expect from stabilizer but may be this comparison would be nonsense when. you take it to the extreme of conditions. I said initially several posts back that the most important thing was to eliminate the variables to determine if the OIS is the culprit.

The fact that you place the camera on the gimbal does not mean that you eliminate the OIS from the equation, The Proof (Canon recommends that you set the stabilizer to off) if you are going to place the camera on a tripod.

The only thing that was eliminated out of the equation in this test is the variable of walking by the operator that would introduce, the bumps, sways of normal walking, which eventually may introduce the Jello effect typical of CMOS sensor cameras.

I hope you get a camera that suits you when you get your new G10, I honestly think you did not have it for enough time to really test it, and put it to the paces. I think you rushed to conclusions.

Luidoly
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post #114 of 194 Old 04-22-2011, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogyellowdog View Post

I have been lurking on this issue for a while, having bought a G10 last week, and I must say that I am confused by your statements Steve. You seem to understand that there was likely something wrong with the camera that you returned, but you continue to express the view that there is something inherently flawed with this camera, which I take issue with. I have been shooting hours of footage with this camera, and unless I am blind or stupid, I do not see anything wrong with the stabilization at all. I see some normal jitter that one always sees when shooting with a small handheld camera, which cannot be eliminated by ANY consumer camera. But all this business about systemic defects in the Canon IS system is unfounded and unsupported. other than your statements on this forum and a few me-toos, I have heard no other complaints anywhere.

By the way, I was shooting in a strong wind yesterday, and I noticed that the open LCD acted almost like a sail. On the clip that you posted, I noticed a LOT of wind noise. Holding a camera steady in those conditions is well nigh impossible. Just a thought...

There are more people in here that had issues besides Steve, myself and a few others. I had it for about 2 weeks and shot about 4+ hours of footage most of it at a wedding. I had a few minor hardware issues with it and did notice issues withe the stabilization, if you read the main thread you will see there are several people that had issues with the camcorder. This Thread was started so the other thread wouldn't be over run by complaints etc.. As I stated I returned mine, and I might buy another HF G10 again or get the XA10 as they seem less problematic. I shoot walking a lot and in low light, so to me stabilization becomes important, as some camcorders do it better than others.
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post #115 of 194 Old 04-23-2011, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by luidoly View Post

Hi Dogyellowdog:

I agree, Steve keeps missing the importance of the Test that Haze just did, I have seen his clip maybe now over 10 times I even dream with it.

He keeps blaming the OIS, comparing the Panny or the Sony which in reality they are very good, if you know what to expect from stabilizer but may be this comparison would be nonsense when. you take it to the extreme of conditions. I said initially several posts back that the most important thing was to eliminate the variables to determine if the OIS is the culprit.

The fact that you place the camera on the gimbal does not mean that you eliminate the OIS from the equation, The Proof (Canon recommends that you set the stabilizer to off) if you are going to place the camera on a tripod.

The only thing that was eliminated out of the equation in this test is the variable of walking by the operator that would introduce, the bumps, sways of normal walking, which eventually may introduce the Jello effect typical of CMOS sensor cameras.

I hope you get a camera that suits you when you get your new G10, I honestly think you did not have it for enough time to really test it, and put it to the paces. I think you rushed to conclusions.

Luidoly


Luis if this is true then why does the Canon NEED a stabilizer rig or a tripod to prevent jello nd the Sony and Panasonic do not. They do not have jello when walking or panning under the same circumstances as the Canon.
I await your answer.
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post #116 of 194 Old 04-23-2011, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luidoly View Post
The principle of the stabilizer is to eliminate the errors introduced in Walking by the operator. There is variation from camera to camera, some do it better than others. I think haze did a very good job by using all 3 IS modes.

Think of the steadycam as a walking tripod,of sorts.

Luidoly
I think that may be part of the issue too. It's clear that some people do a better job at smooth walking videos than others (and I'm NOT just talking about the Canons here). Just look at similar videos from any given cam from different owners and there's a huge difference in how smoothly the end result is.

I don't see anything approaching what I saw in Steve's video in my walking video and it's possible it's just the result of a bad batch of G10s that Steve wound up with. But it could be partially attributed to how smoothly a person actually walks with his cam. It's just a possibility.
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post #117 of 194 Old 04-23-2011, 01:57 PM
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I think that may be part of the issue too. It's clear that some people do a better job at smooth walking videos than others (and I'm NOT just talking about the Canons here). Just look at similar videos from any given cam from different owners and there's a huge difference in how smoothly the end result is.

I don't see anything approaching what I saw in Steve's video in my walking video and it's possible it's just the result of a bad batch of G10s that Steve wound up with. But it could be partially attributed to how smoothly a person actually walks with his cam. It's just a possibility.
I can tell you guys that I purposefully walked without caring whether or not the video was smooth or not. If you're a regular joe (most of you guys are aspiring film directors... HA!!!), you shoot quite differently than some of the movies directed by you guys.
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post #118 of 194 Old 04-23-2011, 01:58 PM
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Ok? But isn't that why manufactures put stabilization into a camcorder? To try eliminate wobble and jitter etc.. I mean if I have to go out and spend 150-200 bucks for a stabilization unit for a camcorder they didn't get it right in the first place.

But, considering how much that Hague device cost, now I want one! LOL
Most stabilization systems are designed to hold a camera steady as one pans or zooms. Yes, they can do a reasonably good job while walking, but that was never their intent until just very recently.

I've walked with mine, panned with mine and done the things that most people do and I simply don't see anything approaching the issues in Steve's video. The stability in mine look identical to what I had for 1 year with the Panny 700. And, IMO, it's important to add that the shaking in Steve's video was every bit as distracting (more so IMO) than the jello. Everyone seems to ignore the shaking and focues on the jello...why is beyond me. To me that shaking is so much more distracting. Again, I just don't see anything like that and it's either the cam itself, a combination of the cam and the shooter's style or who knows what?
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post #119 of 194 Old 04-23-2011, 02:07 PM
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Luis if this is true then why does the Canon NEED a stabilizer rig or a tripod to prevent jello nd the Sony and Panasonic do not. They do not have jello when walking or panning under the same circumstances as the Canon.
I await your answer.
Steve, I think it's very important to qualify your statement. Your unit demonstrated the issue and a few others, but we have no idea if this is common to all G10s. We do have owners of the G10 that don't seem to have the issue.

We also obviously have XA10 owners, including myself, who also don't have the issues. So it's clear that "Canon" does not have a problem across the line. Add to that the fact that we simply don't know if one lot of G10s were bad or if it really is a combo of other issues previously discussed.

We are still in an early learning stage, but I do agree the OIS was very much in the equation during the Hague tests. So it may not be entirely the OIS as the culprit.

We simply need more data to come to any reasonable conclusion before blaming Canon for an entire line of products, many of which seem to be operating beautifully.
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post #120 of 194 Old 04-23-2011, 02:09 PM
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I can tell you guys that I purposefully walked without caring whether or not the video was smooth or not. If you're a regular joe (most of you guys are aspiring film directors... HA!!!), you shoot quite differently than some of the movies directed by you guys.
And you didn't have the issue with your 'sloppy' walking?
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