500-1000fps Camera/Camcorder? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 06-02-2011, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
joeyappleseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm looking to buy a 500-1000fps camera/camcorder for just under $3k. It would be nice if it had a trigger control mechanism. The resolution doesn't have to be HD-like, but decent. Anyone know of where I can get one for that price range? I need to visualize fast flowing fluids. I've looked at Phantoms, Fastec's, etc. They all want at least $6k-$18k starting price.

Thanks,
joeyappleseed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 06-03-2011, 03:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
It'll be very hard to find something with decent quality with the speed that you're looking for. Maybe you'll be lucky in getting a very good price for a used unit or if you think you're not going to use it often, renting could be another option.
Paulo Teixeira is online now  
post #3 of 14 Old 06-04-2011, 04:07 PM
Senior Member
 
havasuvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
There isn't one that exist.....
One solution may be to invest in some high end editing software like After Effects, and get the plug-in, called Twixtor(it's about 600 bucks). Do a you tube search of Twixtor and you will see the effect I'm talking about.

You're looking at at over a grand in software, plus, at least a quad-core computer to run it, and a lot of time.
Buy one of the Panasonic or Sony camera's that shot at 1080/60P, and have fun.

Phantoms and the like, rent for about 3 grand a day, and need a ton of light. Even in direct sunlight, you will need reflectors or additional light. Remember, when shooting at 1000 frames per second, your minimum shutter speed will be 1000th/second.

Casio, and Sony both had "consumer" models that would shoot a few hundred frames per second, and they didn't do to badly.

Also; Google is your friend. Search around and see what's out there(not much). High speed is still a very specialized area of photography, and still very expensive.

Consumer camcorders that shoot at 120 frames per second should be out in a year or two(for 60P 3D)....so, you could wait and try that....or....I think the Alexa's can shoot at 120P too, but they're very, very expensive.

What do you intend to do with your footage and what are you shooting??
havasuvideo is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 06-04-2011, 08:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
If he did found a unit for $6,000, I really don't think that would rent for $3,000 per day.
Paulo Teixeira is online now  
post #5 of 14 Old 06-05-2011, 08:19 AM
Senior Member
 
havasuvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:


Phantoms and the like, rent for about 3 grand a day, and need a ton of light. Even in direct sunlight, you will need reflectors or additional light. Remember, when shooting at 1000 frames per second, your minimum shutter speed will be 1000th/second.

Paul, above is my quote. I know what he said, and for how much. My remark was in relation to the high end camera's that are available to rent. To buy one, runs well over 100 grand, and does not come with a lens.
Also, that 3 grand a day rental price, does not include the P-mount Cine lens-you'll need to rent one of those too, and they start at around 900/day.
http://www.abelcine.com/store/Phanto...d-Camera/#tabs
http://www.mctcameras.com/

I'm curious as to what the original poster found for 6 grand.


For "consumer grade/price" high speed video camera's, try to find the 3? year old Casio-that was capable of shooting less than VGA resolution at up to 1000 fps for a very short shot.
Also, one of the Sony "pro-sumer" camcorders of about the same age, was capable of VGA resolution of up to 240 fps for about 8? seconds.
havasuvideo is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 06-05-2011, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
The Phantom costs $2,500 body only at a place like Rule.com but discussing those cameras are irreverent here since their are cheaper options. He's also not looking for 1920x1080 either. The new Fastec TS3Cine that has been shown at NAB which can shoot 1024p at 500 frames per second or 720p at 720 frames per second has a price tag of $30,000 and will be renting for $625 per day which includes batteries and a tripod. I'm not sure if that includes the lens. The older model, the HiSpec 1, might be even cheaper to rent if you can find it for rent.

Still, even cheaper but still high quality would be from MegaSpeed:
http://www.megaspeedusa.com/
You would have to contact them to see what are the prices on all their units new, and rather or not your able to either rent them or buy them used if the price on some of them are low enough.
Paulo Teixeira is online now  
post #7 of 14 Old 06-05-2011, 04:54 PM
Senior Member
 
havasuvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
i would be interested in what the price is for their entry level camera's. there is no information for the camera such as-does it come with a lens, what focal length and aperture, what size is the sensor, cmos or ccd...etc, etc..???

here is an extreme example of what an unlimited budget, and Brain Farms technique will get you;


in my opinion, Brain Farm hit it out of the park with this video. this is the best use of the Phantom HD Gold I have ever seen. they also used a bunch of different camera's, including their gyro stabilized Hd camera on the helicopter.
this video has made other film makers re-think some of their techniques-it is that good. this video is absolutely riveting and holds your attention, like it should, for the entire video.
of course, having "Redbull" money doesn't hurt. many would like to get that contract-but few are qualified. Just thought this video was jaw dropping with the way they used their camera's.
havasuvideo is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 06-05-2011, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Concerning the MegaSpeed pricing, I have seen only for one of their top units being $12,000 Euros. Usually the European prices are much higher than US so I don't think it's $16,000 US like the guy indicated.
http://vimeo.com/22297643

I'm curious myself concerning other specs and the prices of their cheaper models.



Here's the Fastec video in which it was claimed that the chip size is close to Micro Four Thirds.
http://vimeo.com/22475724
Paulo Teixeira is online now  
post #9 of 14 Old 06-05-2011, 05:37 PM
Senior Member
 
havasuvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Concerning the MegaSpeed pricing, I have seen only for one of their top units being $12,000 Euros. Usually the European prices are much higher than US so I don't think it's $16,000 US like the guy indicated.
http://vimeo.com/22297643

I'm curious myself concerning other specs and the prices of their cheaper models.



Here's the Fastec video in which it was claimed that the chip size is close to Micro Four Thirds.
http://vimeo.com/22475724

thanks, that answered a lot of questions. the price is still pretty high, but, I'll bet they will start renting them for a few hundred a day, which is great for budget productions.

like the fastec too...they almost look like the same camera's. I love how both of them said; "you don't need a technician to operate it"......the Phantom is quite the little niche camera, and usually requires a dedicated operator that is well versed in high speed digital capture.
havasuvideo is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 06-06-2011, 12:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Speaking of fast flowing fluids and MegaSpeed cameras, here's a few videos.
http://vimeo.com/22131560
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0bsUztvl8M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8TMCh4uyl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhO2sxgOfOY
Paulo Teixeira is online now  
post #11 of 14 Old 06-06-2011, 03:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,254
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 429 Post(s)
Liked: 571
Some of those high frame rate effects are awesome. I'd love to see cam's like that work down to more consumer-like price levels.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 06-06-2011, 09:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I just gave MegaSpeed an email concerning pricing of their portable units, how many frame rate options of each unit, etc.
Paulo Teixeira is online now  
post #13 of 14 Old 12-04-2012, 06:34 AM
Newbie
 
Paul Nord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
First choice would be the Casio Exilim EX-F1. It does 300 fps at VGA resolution. That may not be as good as you'd like. But the price is right. The Casio does up to 1200 fps but at a postage stamp resolution.

List price for the Casio was $1000. At one time you could pick them up for about $700. Since Casio stopped making them the price has shot up to $1600. There are a few others in the Exilim product line that you might look at. Nothing really comes close the to optics and features of the EX-F1.

There's also the JVC GC-PX10. It does a maximum of 300 fps. But it looks like it has better low-light capabilities. I'm not sure what the resolution is at this frame rate.

The new and exciting addition to the world of consumer high-speed action is the GoPro Hero3 Black Edition. It does a maximum of 240 fps. You're not going to catch a speeding bullet. But for the $400 price tag, splashing water will look awesome. It even does 720p at 120 fps - making action sports look really cool.

Paul
Paul Nord is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 12-04-2012, 08:06 AM
Member
 
Chas Tennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Is your application for scientific purposes, where accuracy is important, or to produce attractive videos?

What shutter speed do you need to get the motion blur that you want?

Jello Effect distortions for CMOS rolling shutter cameras increase with frame rate and resolution. Check into the Jello Effect if you want accuracy. Look for Global Shutter cameras - mostly more expensive CCD cameras - to avoid Jello Effect.

Some basic considerations for high speed video and cameras –
http://www.kinovea.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?id=435

You might try some velocity vs motion blur analysis for your application by estimating fluid speeds and seeing what the Casio Ex F1 might do. The Kinovea topic is oriented mostly toward the recent affordable high speed video cameras such as the Casio Ex F1(2008). [Cameras such as the Phantom might cost about 10-100X the cost of the Casio cameras.]

I try to follow high speed video cameras and am not aware of any camera that meets your cost and frame rates unless the resolution is considerably reduced.

No experience with this new camera.
http://www.samysdv.com/Professional_Video_Cameras/Filmmaking/Sony_NEX-FS700uk_4k_Camera_w__18-200mm_Lens.php
Price: $8599
“One unique feature for a camcorder of this class is the FS700's ability to record bursts of super-slow motion video at rates up to a whopping 960 fps. (These bursts range from 8 to 16 seconds, depending of the frame rate). Full-resolution recording is possible at up to 240 fps; at 480 and 960 fps, resolution is reduced.”
Chas Tennis is offline  
Reply Camcorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off