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Old 06-08-2011, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I know it's different price range cameras ($1000 vs $500) and the major difference is the first one has an 3CMOS sensor. I can actually afford TM900, but just need to be confident I do not throw my money to the wind. So the question would I really notice significance difference in picture quality between this two? As I understand TM900 should show more natural colors performance, right?

Other that that F1.5/2.8 (TM900) vs F1.8/3.5 (TM90) and TM90 has better optical zoom (20x). I would not care a much about it. So my major concern is an image quality.

Thanks.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:36 PM
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Just pointing out some current prices. TM900 = $890, SD800 = $705. That's all at Amazon. The SDT750 is available at Pavilion for $741.51.

The difference will not only be in more accurate colors, it'll also have far better low light capabilities. Plus, the camcorders such as the SDT750 or TM900 has a view finder and manual focusing ring. The SD800, although missing a view finder and manual focusing ring, it has the guts of the TM900.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
it'll also have far better low light capabilities
well according to cci there isnt such a big gap there
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW, What is Panasonic HDC-TM900K? Is it the same as HDC-TM900? Prices are different for them at Amazon.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYV View Post

BTW, What is Panasonic HDC-TM900K? Is it the same as HDC-TM900? Prices are different for them at Amazon.

k=black
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:22 PM
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Camcorderinfo really needs real world comparisons to be more reliable. Still, if you were to just go by what they say, the TM900 has a good difference in just about any category.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...nd-Ratings.htm
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...nd-Ratings.htm

The SD90 is missing 24p and a shutter of 24. That can increase the low light capabilities much further. To some people having a 24p option period is a major feature. These are really 2 different kinds of camcorders.

Here's something I shot just for fun with the SD600 in 24p.
http://vimeo.com/24862536
Just a bunch of low light clips.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:45 PM
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Neither the SD600 nor the TM900 shoot native 24p (older models did). So to get full advantage of 24p one needs to use additional tools. Also, for many 24p is just a stutterfest.

The SD90 is being sold for $412 at Panasonic EPP, seems that it produces better picture than the SD60 and not too far from 800/900. Compared to the SD600 the SD90 has mic input, I wish the SD600 had it.

Unless one needs the focus ring the SD90 does not look that bad.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:50 PM
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Besides mic input, I actually wish it also had a focusing ring and a view finder which would have been the SDT750 for example but hey, for $300, I couldn't pass it up.

I said a lot about my thoughts concerning Panasonic putting 24p within a 60i stream but at least it has the option and I do have Cineform which outputs that to pure 24p.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
Besides mic input, I actually wish it also had a focusing ring and a view finder which would have been the SDT750 for example but hey, for $300, I couldn't pass it up.
Then it would be a different model.

As for 24p, this is what I shot with the SD600: http://vimeo.com/23429073
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:29 PM
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on slashcam you can compare the tm900 and sd99
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:38 PM
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Their isn't an SD99 on Slashcam.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Then it would be a different model.

As for 24p, this is what I shot with the SD600: http://vimeo.com/23429073

Very nice work there
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Their isn't an SD99 on Slashcam.

im looking right at it
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:46 PM
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It's actually missing on the comparison I was using. It did show up when I did it the other way. I still think we need better tests. The camcorders has to be shot in different environments and we have to know the exact settings used. Besides, I've seen tests from them with other camcorders that are very misleading.

It's true that on one hand your saving money that you can always use elsewhere and on the other hand you get better overall picture quality rather you want to believe it's slight or noticeable, a manual focusing ring, 24p which can definitely help in low light shooting and a view finder. It's also true that some people might not need the extra features.

MYV, so I guess your mind is about made up?
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...4#post20548114
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:55 PM
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I am also comparing the tm900 and tm90 - for me the difference is the 28mm wide angle on the tm90 and the 35mm wide angle on the tm900.

In the real world will that make that much of a difference?

Also, did you see this on amazon regarding their stock of tm900 -

Item Under Review
While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)

We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:16 PM
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Unfortunately, Amazon decides to give an explanation that are probably used for any kind of problem. If only they said exactly what it was. B&H still has it for $890.

This all depends on your shooting style. If you really need a wider angle, the CX560v, CX700v or the Canon G10 would be other options. Still, you can purchase a wide angle lens for the TM900 for the times that you really need it.
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:08 PM
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It seems that you have already made up your mind, but if you had gone for the SD90, why not consider one of Canon's newest models instead? I personally was going to get the SD/TM800 or 900, then thought about SD90 (I'm pretty sure I wouldn't notice the slightly reduced quality), but then I read about Canon having better low light performance. Even better than the Panasonic 800/900.

Has anyone compared Canon HF M41/M46/M406 (M41=32GB internal memory, M46=16GB internal memory, M406=no internal memory) and the SD90, and SD/TM 800 and 900?
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:35 AM
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Big sale going at Best Buy.
Here is a link to all the sale prices, it's a today only sale.
They have the S90 on sale for $499
There is some good deals on other things as well. It'stonight only!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/regularC...22&abt_srt_v=a
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Big sale going at Best Buy.
Here is a link to all the sale prices, it's a today only sale.
They have the S90 on sale for $499
There is some good deals on other things as well. It'stonight only!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/regularC...22&abt_srt_v=a

big deal
it's $430 on sale at B&H; http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes
no tax-shipped free. that's $100 less than Best Buy.
pays to shop around.
you're welcome
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:29 PM
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For what it's worth, B&H has the Panasonic SD800 on sale for $704.99 + a $100 gift card. As long as you don't live in New York State, it's tax-free too. Taking into consideration the gift card and tax savings, you're only about $100 off from the SD90. And, in my opinion, the SD800 is miles better than than the SD90.
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havasuvideo View Post

big deal
it's $430 on sale at B&H; http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes
no tax-shipped free. that's $100 less than Best Buy.
pays to shop around.
you're welcome


Did you actually check the site before opening your mouth?
The sale is at midnight, it's currently $499 that price will drop but i don't know by how much.
This is why I stopped posting anything to do with prices.
I got my Canon HF G10 for $999. I recall getting a lot of S#iT for that and how it was impossible. So do what you want. I said before I wasn't going to post sale prices anymore, thanks for reminding me.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

The sale is at midnight, it's currently $499 that price will drop but i don't know by how much.

Well, this was not obvious from your prior message.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Did you actually check the site before opening your mouth?
The sale is at midnight, it's currently $499 that price will drop but i don't know by how much.
This is why I stopped posting anything to do with prices.
I got my Canon HF G10 for $999. I recall getting a lot of S#iT for that and how it was impossible. So do what you want. I said before I wasn't going to post sale prices anymore, thanks for reminding me.

yes I did, and it was not apparent to me that the price would change. it appeared it was on-sale today, so I added it to my cart to see what the price was.
sorry if you have stock in Best Buy, or something......but, I simply did a search to find a lower price, and found what I thought was a much lower price.
So, once again, you're welcome.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:09 PM
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Sd90 -- $470.
Tm80 -- $380.
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:13 PM
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I had the same dilemma and decided to go for TM90.

What I really liked in TM90 is:

1) Unbelievable zoom range: 40x

2) Amazing wide angle: 28mm (extremely useful)

3) Very small, light and quiet (many reviews of TM900 mentioned fan noise issue)

4) Less than half the price of TM900, yet with almost all same features (especially full manual control of gain & iris, white-balance, and manual focus assist). TM900 has exposure zebra - this is the only extra feature, but it is completely unimportant to me.

5) Low-light reviews of TM90 are very good, I did not find any complaints whatsoever.

With these 5 items it was EXTREMELY hard to justify TM900.

Here are other things I like about TM90 (but they are not different from TM900):

6) 1080p60 @ 28mbps - this immediately eliminates all Canon products, including all their dSLRs and compact cameras.

7) I edit the footage with Sony Vegas, render it with SonyAVC codec at 1080p60 @ 24mpbs, AC3 256kbps audio, then merge the two with tsMuxer in .ts file. I can then playback this file via USB on my blu-ray player (as blu-ray disk does not support 1080p60, but USB does, up to 30mbps). But here is the best part - I can use multiAVCHD program to create AVCHD directory from the .ts file, then just copy&paste it to TM90 and playback the edited footage directly from the camcorder via HDMI cable, with full 1080p60 resolution. Both tsMusxer and multiAVCHD are completely free. Perhaps it is possible to do it with Sony camcorders, but multiAVCHD program specifically supports Panasonic brands only, not Sony.

8) I use external high-quality microphone. Some camcorders require a battery-operated microphone, but it turned out TM90 doesn't. So I don't need to constantly remember to turn the mic on and off, it simply uses the power from the camcorder itself. Though same way is on Sony camcorders, too ("plug-in power"). Not sure about Canon - my HV20 did require a battery.

9) Incredible image stabilization. I was completely blown away when I checked TM90 in a store: at 40x (i.e. 1120mm), the hand-held footage was unbelievably stable. I was totally sold. I think TM90 is simply under-priced.
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltsi View Post

Amazing wide angle: 28mm (extremely useful)

Wow! I was not aware of this! It actually has a wider angle than the 35mm on the 800/900!

Quote:


Low-light reviews of TM90 are very good, I did not find any complaints whatsoever.

I wonder if there are direct comparisons with the 900 and Canon M4xxx out there...

Quote:


I use external high-quality microphone.

Do you know what the quality of the built-in microphone is like?

Quote:


I think TM90 is simply under-priced.

Possibly, but it can't really beat the SD900 when it comes to video quality and low light capabilities. However, it is supposedly surprisingly good considering the price.

What's the battery life like, by the way?
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:41 PM
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Do you know what the quality of the built-in microphone is like?

What's the battery life like, by the way?
The built-in has wind-cancel feature, but I haven't tested it. I use external because I really want directional shotgun - TM90 mic is not directional.

Battery life is very good, it easily covered one full day at Disneyland shot with 1080p60: my kid, a parade, a complete collage band performance, a full ride at "It's a small world", and some parts of the performance at night. The spec says 1hr20min, but I haven't measured how long exactly.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tri-james View Post

I am also comparing the tm900 and tm90 - for me the difference is the 28mm wide angle on the tm90 and the 35mm wide angle on the tm900.

In the real world will that make that much of a difference?

I'm also wondering about this. Are there any downsides to the wider angle?

I mean, the SD90 has a wider angle than the SD900, while the SD900 has a wider angle than the Canon M40. But the Canon M40 is also the best in low light, while SD90 has the poorest low light performance.

So how come the cheapest camera has the widest angle? I thought a wider angle was typically something for more expensive cameras.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltsi View Post

I had the same dilemma and decided to go for TM90.

What I really liked in TM90 is:

1) Unbelievable zoom range: 40x

2) Amazing wide angle: 28mm (extremely useful)

3) Very small, light and quiet (many reviews of TM900 mentioned fan noise issue)

4) Less than half the price of TM900, yet with almost all same features (especially full manual control of gain & iris, white-balance, and manual focus assist). TM900 has exposure zebra - this is the only extra feature, but it is completely unimportant to me.


5) Low-light reviews of TM90 are very good, I did not find any complaints whatsoever.

With these 5 items it was EXTREMELY hard to justify TM900.

Here are other things I like about TM90 (but they are not different from TM900):

6) 1080p60 @ 28mbps - this immediately eliminates all Canon products, including all their dSLRs and compact cameras.

7) I edit the footage with Sony Vegas, render it with SonyAVC codec at 1080p60 @ 24mpbs, AC3 256kbps audio, then merge the two with tsMuxer in .ts file. I can then playback this file via USB on my blu-ray player (as blu-ray disk does not support 1080p60, but USB does, up to 30mbps). But here is the best part - I can use multiAVCHD program to create AVCHD directory from the .ts file, then just copy&paste it to TM90 and playback the edited footage directly from the camcorder via HDMI cable, with full 1080p60 resolution. Both tsMusxer and multiAVCHD are completely free. Perhaps it is possible to do it with Sony camcorders, but multiAVCHD program specifically supports Panasonic brands only, not Sony.

8) I use external high-quality microphone. Some camcorders require a battery-operated microphone, but it turned out TM90 doesn't. So I don't need to constantly remember to turn the mic on and off, it simply uses the power from the camcorder itself. Though same way is on Sony camcorders, too ("plug-in power"). Not sure about Canon - my HV20 did require a battery.

9) Incredible image stabilization. I was completely blown away when I checked TM90 in a store: at 40x (i.e. 1120mm), the hand-held footage was unbelievably stable. I was totally sold. I think TM90 is simply under-priced.

michaeltsi, I really like TM90 and its 28mm lenses. However, it has a cooling fan like TM700-900. Some users reported unacceptable fan noisy during playback. Others not even mention about it, at least not major reviewers. From your practical experience:
1. Is it really that noisy that can be heard during playback?
2. Does your external mic reduce fan noisy or it's the same, meaning that noisy comes through internal circuitry?
3. I have LG portable DVD R/W drive (with slave USB), powered from PC USB port. Can I plug LG drive into TM90 Master USB port and either save raw data or record ready to play movie to DVD?
Thanks for help.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:22 PM
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A fairer comparison would have been against the SD800 especially knowing that the $890 TM900 adds a view finder and a manual focusing ring. As been said elsewhere, if you include the $100 gift card, your technically getting the SD600 for $605 at B&H. Amazon sold out of the SD800 for $505 but if you wait until they get more in stock, you can get it at that price again.

Yes, as if I have to mention about that deal 3 times already. I wish they would have deals like that to the M400 and M40 series so that we'd have a wider range of affordable and very decent quality camcorders.
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