Sony DSC-HX9V - Requires raw mode - How to convince Sony? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-08-2011, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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So the Sony HX9V has absolutely stunning video for its price. I got it for $300 online shipped.

The only thing I would want on this camera is a raw capture mode, or a way to disable or reduce the amount of noise reduction on the camera itself.

How can I convince Sony to do this? Do they ever release firmware updates for their cameras?

Has anyone ever hacked the camera itself, or hacked Sony cameras in general?

It's a shame they don't allow this option, and perhaps a bigger shame there is no real way to reach Sony so that they hear & act on our concerns for this.

If they improved this portion of the software, this camera might actually be the best camera ever made in this price range for both video and still shots.
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post #2 of 17 Old 09-12-2011, 07:19 PM
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I agree. The video is stunning, while noise reduction cripples the photos. I bought the camera mainly for its video and am very happy with it - quality is incredible, though basically no manual functions leave a lot to be desired.
However stills are far from perfect - too strong noise reduction. I love panorama mode, HDR mode - they all work great, save time and solve the need for wider lenses (although 24mm is quite wide already). However the quality of stills is not good. I would not expect miracles even with RAW - the sensor is simply to small to make much change. If you want better quality then choose camera with a bigger sensor.

I'm very much looking forward to NEX7 - it looks like it could be a much better - though also much more expensive alternative, with ASC-P size sensor, RAW, etc. + possibly video even better than that of HX9V.
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post #3 of 17 Old 09-12-2011, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes! Someone agrees with me!!

I don't know what Sony was thinking, but I sent them a message and I hope others can do the same. Maybe if they get enough feedback from customers, they could allow for a firmware update that enables a RAW mode.

I don't expect it to solve much, but heck, anything would be better than their noise reduction algorithm! 1:1 pixel peeping is just my past time

I didn't see a 'camera' forum, and the line between camcorders and cameras seems to be blurred enough these days. I was originally going to go for the Panasonic HDC-TM700 (I believe that's the model...) but then decided to go compact.

Crappy part about the Panasonic's is that 1080P/60fps does not play well on the PS3 - I get choppy video after a few seconds, probably because the bitrate goes above AVC spec to 28Mbps.

But for the videos I tried with the Sony HX9V, they all seemed to play fine on my fat PS3 80GB - even though they are also recorded at 28Mbps??

Might just be some form of luck. I copy everything to the hard disk before playback, and always play back the raw files themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YLK View Post

I agree. The video is stunning, while noise reduction cripples the photos. I bought the camera mainly for its video and am very happy with it - quality is incredible, though basically no manual functions leave a lot to be desired.
However stills are far from perfect - too strong noise reduction. I love panorama mode, HDR mode - they all work great, save time and solve the need for wider lenses (although 24mm is quite wide already). However the quality of stills is not good. I would not expect miracles even with RAW - the sensor is simply to small to make much change. If you want better quality then choose camera with a bigger sensor.

I'm very much looking forward to NEX7 - it looks like it could be a much better - though also much more expensive alternative, with ASC-P size sensor, RAW, etc. + possibly video even better than that of HX9V.

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post #4 of 17 Old 09-12-2011, 09:34 PM
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The NEX5N will be a lot cheaper than the NEX7 and will possibly be better in low light because of the lower MP count and maybe even take better video quality since it's the exact same chip that's in the VG20.

One of the reasons Panasasonic's 1080 60p mode is harder on a PS3 is because the codec is more efficient and because of that, it takes more resources to play properly. Still, it's strongly advised to disable the picture enhancements on the PS3. That takes up some of the PS3's power.

I'm not so sure Sony would add features to the HX9. It took a lot of complaining and intense competition from Micro Four Thirds for Sony to offer a firmware upgrade to make the original NEX5 better. Their was also a lot of complaining to give the VG10 that same features that the NEX5 got but Sony never budged.
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 02:45 AM
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Paulo,

Have you tested Nex5n against HX9V and HX100 - including low light? I wonder how they would perform. NEX7 is highly expected and called "game changer" by many, and it is possible 24Mpixels will still provide good low light. I must admit I'm very impressed with HX9V - IMO it does much better job in low light than Panasonic TM900 and Sony CX700 (which I personally tested) - and it has a tiny sensor.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Still, it's strongly advised to disable the picture enhancements on the PS3. That takes up some of the PS3's power.

I'm still trying to figure out what settings you & others are talking about. What specific "picture enhancement" settings are there on the PS3 that I should try disabling?
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 02:29 PM
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Once you put a fast lens on the NEX5N or NEX7, the HX9 or HX100 wont even come close to the quality in low light. We don't need any reviews to determine that. For daylight shooting, I'm not sure. The only tests I payed attention to is comparing the NEX cameras to the GH2 like on EOSHD for example.

It was on Imaging Resources, that showed the A77(same chip as the NEX7) having more noise than the NEX5N with a very high ISO. Still, I think I'll put more trust on DP Review so I'm awaiting their conclusions and obviously the fairest way to compare will be with the NEX7 and 5N rather than other cameras with the same chip.

I would really love to see testing results that showed the HX9 performing much better than the TM900 or CX700 in low light. If that was the case, the HX9 would give the Canon G10/XA10 a run for it's money in low light.
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 02:38 PM
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Play a video on the PS3 and hit pause. You then hit the triangle and you'll see a bunch of icons. On the top row, you'll see an icon almost in the middle which says AV Settings. Click on that and set everything to off: "Frame Noise Reduction", "Block Noise Reduction", and "Mosquito Noise Reduction" You never know if everything was already set to off but it doesn't to check.
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post #9 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 08:00 PM
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I spend a long time in Sony's showroom testing both CX700 and HX9V. We placed both cameras facing the same spot so that they were shooting identical scene. Right from the beginning the quality of the video played from the cameras on TVs showed superiority of HX9V. This actually embarassed the Sony folks present there who were assisting me, and they were adjusting the manual setting on CX700 trying to improve the video quality. In spite of all their efforts HX9V was still better (much better IMO).

IMO there is no doubt HX9V gives one more value for the money than any expensive dedicated camcorder. However lack of manual controls cripples it and makes it unusable for serious videomakers.
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post #10 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 08:28 PM
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I checked the comparison of high ISO stills on imaging resources - incl. FF Canon Mark II, and am _very_ impressed by NEX5n. On the other hand firmwares version for A77 is a beta one, and will probably be tweaked for better preformance. Hopefully DP will be faster in their reviews and comparisons of new Sony releases than with HV100...
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post #11 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 08:39 PM
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There's a reason why RAW mode is not enabled in the lower end consumer cameras - it's because Sony (and other manufacturers) want you to purchase their professional grade cameras which offer the functionality.

Technically it would be very easy to enable RAW mode on the HX9V.
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post #12 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabatical View Post

Technically it would be very easy to enable RAW mode on the HX9V.

Could you do it?
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post #13 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YLK View Post

Could you do it?

I know what you're trying to say, but he is right. Technically, there isn't much to it. It's definitely a business / marketing decision, as adding RAW mode would've been a piece of cake.

I wish they had easter eggs / hidden menus that could be enabled at a later date. That would've just made things so much simpler.
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post #14 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Play a video on the PS3 and hit pause. You then hit the triangle and you'll see a bunch of icons. On the top row, you'll see an icon almost in the middle which says AV Settings. Click on that and set everything to off: "Frame Noise Reduction", "Block Noise Reduction", and "Mosquito Noise Reduction" You never know if everything was already set to off but it doesn't to check.

Thanks Paul. I totally forgot about those settings! I remember seeing your name in the past on AVSFORUM when I was evaluating HD video. Are you still using your Panasonic HDC-TM700, or have you found something better in the price range? Gonna go back to your Vimeo clips to see if you added any more
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post #15 of 17 Old 09-13-2011, 10:59 PM
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I just use the GH13, GH2 and SD600 at the moment for personal and hired shooting gigs. My Vimeo account is a little embarrassing since a lot of it are samples some good stuff have never been posted yet. For hired projects, a lot of it are on other people's YouTube and Vimeo accounts.

Completely off topic but here's one of the videos I did in the past using an HVX200. About 95% were shot by me. The first 13 second for example wasn't shot by me. After using SLR shaped cameras for a while, it almost felt weird hand holding the HVX200.
http://vimeo.com/17898001
That was a homework assignment in college in which different groups of students had to make a film ourselves.
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post #16 of 17 Old 04-25-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Paul,

I'm starting to get sick of my HX9V camera. Picture quality is terrible, and it is too much of a sacrifice for great video. Also, video performance in low light is terrible. A 60fps video in low light ends up looking like it is shot at 15fps with the shutter speed issue.

The only way I got the HX9V to shoot half decent frame rate in low light was in fireworks mode - but that added a very distinct orange/red tinge to the video.

Sony isn't going to release any firmware to fix it.

So what should we try next? I hear the Panasonic ZS20 shoots great quality video with great photographs. But I tested some of the 1080p/50fps video clips and they stutter while panning - I guess the optical stabilization doesn't even come close to the HX9V.

Also hearing some rumour about the HX30V - not sure where this one will stack up.

There is no perfect point and shoot that does everything yet.. probably still a couple of years away, if not more.
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post #17 of 17 Old 04-26-2012, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzjagz View Post

Hi Paul,

I'm starting to get sick of my HX9V camera. Picture quality is terrible, and it is too much of a sacrifice for great video. Also, video performance in low light is terrible. A 60fps video in low light ends up looking like it is shot at 15fps with the shutter speed issue.

The only way I got the HX9V to shoot half decent frame rate in low light was in fireworks mode - but that added a very distinct orange/red tinge to the video.

Sony isn't going to release any firmware to fix it.

So what should we try next? I hear the Panasonic ZS20 shoots great quality video with great photographs. But I tested some of the 1080p/50fps video clips and they stutter while panning - I guess the optical stabilization doesn't even come close to the HX9V.

Also hearing some rumour about the HX30V - not sure where this one will stack up.

There is no perfect point and shoot that does everything yet.. probably still a couple of years away, if not more.

Hi jagz - the HX9V is a great video camera, but that's about it. If you don't want to upgrade to an interchangeable lens camera, but you want RAW stills, I recommend the Panasonic FZ150. 1080/60p, RAW stills, full manual control of stills and video, external mic input, unlimited video clip length. Great reviews here, here and here -- and some sample videos (with stills) that you may find useful here and here.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution
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