The Official Panasonic HDC-SD/TM90 Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 176 Old 12-13-2011, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmy007 View Post

Ronomy, Do you mean in direct sunlight scenes like at the beach the Intelligent Contrast keeps the average brightness level(non clipping). Or do you use IC in overcast lighted scenes as well? In overcast or cloudy days the whites don't seem to become blown out.
How do you put the camera in standard auto exposure mode? Do you mean press manual button and shoot from there?

Spotlight mode keeps the camera from clipping then IC keeps the average brightness level. It works well on cloudy days too. I agree cloudy days are not bad with IA turned on or just plain standard auto contrast which is IA turned off and no other shutter or IRIS settings made.
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post #32 of 176 Old 12-13-2011, 05:54 PM
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Well, I'm back to editing a 1080p wedding video with HDWriter 3.0 which comes with the TM90 and others I assume. I am frustrated to say the least. I copied the video onto my HD and went into edit mode to trim all the clips to what I want, then selected "file output" and waited, and waited and waited...... I initially added some nice transitions between clips also but after this long wait, I took them all out so all the software had to do was join the clips. I started "file output" again and it started to really fly until 22% and I waited and waited for it to get past this point, no luck. I looked at what it was writing to the HD and when it flew it was writing about 40MBytes/sec. Then at 22% it started to write less than 1MByte/sec and just stayed there. I got fed up and cancelled again.

I then ran videoredo and imported a 1080i version I had made in the summer. Selected all the segments I wanted and saved it all, done! Sure I had to start at the beginning and re-select every clip I wanted but I had no choice. Now I have my edited video but without any transistions between clips because videoredo doesn't have that feature.

I'm going to try and find out what hung the HDWriter software. I will start "File Outputting" only certain clips around 22% into my video and see if one of them is hanging it up. I sure can't see why because they all play back fine in the editor when previewing. Can anyone think of a reason the software slows to a crawl when it's just joining cut clips without transitions??

Update - Well, videoredo causes glitches at most of the edit points. I also tried starting to output later in my project and it still hangs and encodes slowly. Am I really expected to wait 20 hours to edit 1.5 hrs of video?
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post #33 of 176 Old 12-14-2011, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Well, I'm back to editing a 1080p wedding video with HDWriter 3.0 which comes with the TM90 and others I assume. I am frustrated to say the least. I copied the video onto my HD and went into edit mode to trim all the clips to what I want, then selected "file output" and waited, and waited and waited...... I initially added some nice transitions between clips also but after this long wait, I took them all out so all the software had to do was join the clips. I started "file output" again and it started to really fly until 22% and I waited and waited for it to get past this point, no luck. I looked at what it was writing to the HD and when it flew it was writing about 40MBytes/sec. Then at 22% it started to write less than 1MByte/sec and just stayed there. I got fed up and cancelled again.

I then ran videoredo and imported a 1080i version I had made in the summer. Selected all the segments I wanted and saved it all, done! Sure I had to start at the beginning and re-select every clip I wanted but I had no choice. Now I have my edited video but without any transistions between clips because videoredo doesn't have that feature.

I'm going to try and find out what hung the HDWriter software. I will start "File Outputting" only certain clips around 22% into my video and see if one of them is hanging it up. I sure can't see why because they all play back fine in the editor when previewing. Can anyone think of a reason the software slows to a crawl when it's just joining cut clips without transitions??

Update - Well, videoredo causes glitches at most of the edit points. I also tried starting to output later in my project and it still hangs and encodes slowly. Am I really expected to wait 20 hours to edit 1.5 hrs of video?

I noticed re-rendering to 1080p with transitions in HDwriter 3.0 was a long process. It was quicker rendering to 1080i then adding transitions. Make sure you keep the camcorder connected to speed up the conversion to 1080i.

I think the transitions in 1080p is what really slows it down.

Ron
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post #34 of 176 Old 12-14-2011, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Well, I'm back to editing a 1080p wedding video with HDWriter 3.0 which comes with the TM90 and others I assume. I am frustrated to say the least. I copied the video onto my HD and went into edit mode to trim all the clips to what I want, then selected "file output" and waited, and waited and waited...... I initially added some nice transitions between clips also but after this long wait, I took them all out so all the software had to do was join the clips. I started "file output" again and it started to really fly until 22% and I waited and waited for it to get past this point, no luck. I looked at what it was writing to the HD and when it flew it was writing about 40MBytes/sec. Then at 22% it started to write less than 1MByte/sec and just stayed there. I got fed up and cancelled again.

Tyee,
How about trying Sony Vegas Pro 11 trial version and see how it works? It should be quite fast especially if you have a supported graphics card that off loads a lot of the cpu work to the GPU of the graphics card. I think the 30 day trial works just like the registered version without a watermark.
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post #35 of 176 Old 12-15-2011, 01:48 PM
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Need some help!

I've had my TM90 for about a week. I recorded in 1080/60 and played it back on my Panasonic P65V10 TV. Output was through camcorder's HDMI into the TV's HDMI input #2. The video does not look very good at all. It's very grainy. I changed the camcorder's output from Auto to 1080p but that didn't change anything. I also recorded in HA, video also looks bad on TV. So, what the heck is wrong here?
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post #36 of 176 Old 12-15-2011, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tvdavid View Post

Need some help!

I've had my TM90 for about a week. I recorded in 1080/60 and played it back on my Panasonic P65V10 TV. Output was through camcorder's HDMI into the TV's HDMI input #2. The video does not look very good at all. It's very grainy. I changed the camcorder's output from Auto to 1080p but that didn't change anything. I also recorded in HA, video also looks bad on TV. So, what the heck is wrong here?

Some TVs revert to over enhanced modes when you use a new HDMI input you never used. My Sony was like that. Vivid mode and initially my footage looked like crap. Check the settings on your TV.
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post #37 of 176 Old 12-15-2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Some TVs revert to over enhanced modes when you use a new HDMI input you never used. My Sony was like that. Vivid mode and initially my footage looked like crap. Check the settings on your TV.

OK, I'll check that tonight, thanks!
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post #38 of 176 Old 12-15-2011, 11:20 PM
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@Ronomy
Thanks for the info. Can I actually "File Output" to 1080i. I haven't seen that option or do you mean first "file output" all the clips into one from the 1080p, then use the camera to convert to 1080i, then edit that 1080i. Is that it? If I don't edit any clips at all and select file output it does do it quite fast, it's just the edits that are slow at 1080p.

@Jimmy007
Your a mind reader! Just yesterday I did download Vegas to try it out. I used it many years ago, just the basics mind you, but it should come back to me. If I have to I guess I will use it. My videocard is only an ATI HD5500 so I don't think it can help.
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post #39 of 176 Old 12-16-2011, 08:58 AM
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Interlaced is crap. No reason to go to interlaced if you already have progressive. Edits are slow? Upgrade.
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post #40 of 176 Old 12-16-2011, 10:18 AM
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I have done a couple interlace conversions from 1080p and with a good deinterlacer like a DVDO Duo its hard to tell the difference. Sure pans are a tad smoother with progressive but other than that it still looks great. On cheap TVs sure no comparison. 1080p rules.
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post #41 of 176 Old 12-16-2011, 10:56 PM
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I'm waiting till the new year for the next processor to hit the market and I will upgrade then, but for now I will try doing the 1080i in HDWriter and if it's not too slow that will suffice or if not I will try Vegas but a lot of guys are importing the AVCHD then rendering to the MXF format in Vegas then loading that format to edit with. Seems a lot of people can't tell the difference between the original and the MXF file.
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post #42 of 176 Old 12-16-2011, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

I'm waiting till the new year for the next processor to hit the market and I will upgrade then, but for now I will try doing the 1080i in HDWriter and if it's not too slow that will suffice or if not I will try Vegas but a lot of guys are importing the AVCHD then rendering to the MXF format in Vegas then loading that format to edit with. Seems a lot of people can't tell the difference between the original and the MXF file.

MXF is a container, it is not an encoding format.
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post #43 of 176 Old 12-17-2011, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking to get a second battery and wondering if anyone would advise against the VW-VBK360 large/extended runtime battery for any reasons? I'm trying to find weight/dimensions on it to compare to the VW-VBK180 but have had no locked. My main concerns would be with the extra length/weight messing up balance and comfort.
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post #44 of 176 Old 12-17-2011, 02:34 PM
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So my parents just came back from Florida and dropped by with my new toy (picked the TM90 up for $299 on Black Friday). Don't have a ton of time today or tomorrow to go over the manual, so was curious what people were suggesting re:

1. First things to set out of the box (i.e., I assume there is a switch somewhere to change where the camera saves files as I want to save it to my 32gb SDHC card)
2. Are people generally using 1080p or i (I don't anticipate much editing) and is it as simple as pressing the 1080p button in any mode?
3. Finally, what's the recommended settings for:

a) low light (such as birthday candles) recording
b) Indoor recording
c) Outdoor recording (assume iA is fine here?)

I know, I'm lazy, but this sort of thing would be great on the first page of this thread to help us newbs out!

I can't get over how small this thing is compared to my Sony HDR-HC3!

 

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post #45 of 176 Old 12-17-2011, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

So my parents just came back from Florida and dropped by with my new toy (picked the TM90 up for $299 on Black Friday). Don't have a ton of time today or tomorrow to go over the manual, so was curious what people were suggesting re:

1. First things to set out of the box (i.e., I assume there is a switch somewhere to change where the camera saves files as I want to save it to my 32gb SDHC card)
2. Are people generally using 1080p or i (I don't anticipate much editing) and is it as simple as pressing the 1080p button in any mode?
3. Finally, what's the recommended settings for:

a) low light (such as birthday candles) recording
b) Indoor recording
c) Outdoor recording (assume iA is fine here?)

I know, I'm lazy, but this sort of thing would be great on the first page of this thread to help us newbs out!

I can't get over how small this thing is compared to my Sony HDR-HC3!

2. 1080p and 1080/60p is becoming more and more popular everyday thanks to the increasing adoption rate of blu-rays and HDTVs.

Youtube only supports 30p so it will downconvert your 1080/60p or 1080/60i video to 1080/30p. That however doesn't mean that the 1080/60p format is useless. More and more people are demanding that video websites like youtube upgrade their services to support 60 frames a second. In time they will hopefully realize that it is a much needed service. It wasn't too long ago that Youtube didn't even support HD at all.

When downcoverting it's always best for the source to be of the highest quality, that way the downconverted video will look as good as it could be.
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post #46 of 176 Old 12-17-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

a) low light (such as birthday candles) recording
b) Indoor recording

IA mode for indoors. 1080/60p for everything unless your video editing software requires you to use 1080/60i.

For outdoor recording I use manual mode. I select shutter speed of 120 and then set the iris to whatever setting makes the exposure look right, usually f5.6. The video looks brighter and more colorful if I do that.

You should also experiment with manual white balance if you are not fully satisfied with the colors you are getting in Auto WB as it can make the video even more bright and colorful. I've been using white paper towels to set manual WB outdoors, but I ordered an some white balance cards on ebay to see if they are even better.
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post #47 of 176 Old 12-17-2011, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

Youtube only supports 30p so it will downconvert your 1080/60p or 1080/60i video to 1080/30p.

The difference is that 30p from 60p will look fine, while 30p from 30i will look like crap.
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post #48 of 176 Old 12-18-2011, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

IA mode for indoors. 1080/60p for everything unless your video editing software requires you to use 1080/60i.

For outdoor recording I use manual mode. I select shutter speed of 120 and then set the iris to whatever setting makes the exposure look right, usually f5.6. The video looks brighter and more colorful if I do that.

You should also experiment with manual white balance if you are not fully satisfied with the colors you are getting in Auto WB as it can make the video even more bright and colorful. I've been using white paper towels to set manual WB outdoors, but I ordered an some white balance cards on ebay to see if they are even better.

Thanks, when you say "IA mode for indoors. 1080/60p for everything unless your video editing software requires you to use 1080/60i", does iA mode automatically select 1080i?

 

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post #49 of 176 Old 12-18-2011, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Thanks, when you say "IA mode for indoors. 1080/60p for everything unless your video editing software requires you to use 1080/60i", does iA mode automatically select 1080i?

Just press the 1080p button and leave it that way.

The menus are self explaining to use. If you press the IA button IA will be off and the camera will auto adjust exposure without using different auto modes like low light, scenery mode or portrait mode. Then you can select your own auto mode or adjust exposure yourself. My favorite mode outdoors is spotlight mode with Intelligent contrast turned on. I also force outdoor sunlight white balance. Indoors IA is usually fine but in lower light settings you can do better adjusting exposure yourself.

You need to play with the camera and figure out what's best for you.
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post #50 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 08:06 AM
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Just an update to my editing with HDWriter. I'm very happy now. Thanks to that tip by Ronomy I edited the 1080i version and now the final edit with transitions goes pretty fast! My video was about 1 hr 40 minutes and it took less than half that to output the final edit. Thanks Ronomy! But, there is always a BUT, I can't seem to get HDWriter to output a single fine, it always splits to the 4GB size when "File Output". I want a single file because I import it into MultiAVCHD to build my Blu-ray disc and using the 4GB split files muxed with tsmuxer causes audio sync issues. Each 4GB section has a different ac3 delay. I spent all yesterday trying this and that to get it in sync and finally did, but if the app could do it itself it would be better.

Re: the MHX format, yes after I posted I searched for more info and it is a container format, so what codec is it using internally. Other forums seem to say it easier to render our AVCHD to that MXF first then edit it in Vegas. If it's the same h.264 what's be point??

Here's a read on this - http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...ssageID=770173
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post #51 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDClown View Post

Looking to get a second battery and wondering if anyone would advise against the VW-VBK360 large/extended runtime battery for any reasons? I'm trying to find weight/dimensions on it to compare to the VW-VBK180 but have had no locked. My main concerns would be with the extra length/weight messing up balance and comfort.

I have Pana, Sony and Canon camcorders. i have large batteries for all. I think that the larger batteries make all the camcorders balance better. The bulk helps to stabilize.

Randy
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post #52 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Just an update to my editing with HDWriter. I'm very happy now. Thanks to that tip by Ronomy I edited the 1080i version and now the final edit with transitions goes pretty fast! My video was about 1 hr 40 minutes and it took less than half that to output the final edit. Thanks Ronomy! But, there is always a BUT, I can't seem to get HDWriter to output a single fine, it always splits to the 4GB size when "File Output". I want a single file because I import it into MultiAVCHD to build my Blu-ray disc and using the 4GB split files muxed with tsmuxer causes audio sync issues. Each 4GB section has a different ac3 delay. I spent all yesterday trying this and that to get it in sync and finally did, but if the app could do it itself it would be better.

Re: the MHX format, yes after I posted I searched for more info and it is a container format, so what codec is it using internally. Other forums seem to say it easier to render our AVCHD to that MXF first then edit it in Vegas. If it's the same h.264 what's be point??

Here's a read on this - http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...ssageID=770173

Sorry! I have not rendered anything over a half hour in length in 1080i and ended up splitting the files up so I had chapter points. Then created an AVCHD DVD using HDWriter 3.0. I think you can merge files in Vegas without re-rendering. I have not tried to figure that out yet. I like to keep my scenes all separated instead of one big file. Easier to find scenes that way on the PC playing back via HDwriter or even with my media player right off the hard drive.
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post #53 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYRandy View Post

I have Pana, Sony and Canon camcorders. i have large batteries for all. I think that the larger batteries make all the camcorders balance better. The bulk helps to stabilize.

Randy

On the TM90 the record button is right near the battery. The larger battery might interfere with your thumb.
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post #54 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

But, there is always a BUT, I can't seem to get HDWriter to output a single fine, it always splits to the 4GB size when "File Output". I want a single file because I import it into MultiAVCHD to build my Blu-ray disc and using the 4GB split files muxed with tsmuxer causes audio sync issues. Each 4GB section has a different ac3 delay. I spent all yesterday trying this and that to get it in sync and finally did, but if the app could do it itself it would be better.

Hmm... 4GB... it sounds like you're running into the FAT32 file size limit? Is your drive formatted as FAT32? If so, you can try converting it to NTFS. You could also use exFAT, but I believe you would need to reformat in order to do so (ie- no conversion utility). I actually use exFAT for my external hard drives as it is the only natively-supported file system on both Windows and MacOS that supports files larger than 4GB.
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post #55 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gerald-gt View Post

Hmm... 4GB... it sounds like you're running into the FAT32 file size limit? Is your drive formatted as FAT32? If so, you can try converting it to NTFS. You could also use exFAT, but I believe you would need to reformat in order to do so (ie- no conversion utility). I actually use exFAT for my external hard drives as it is the only natively-supported file system on both Windows and MacOS that supports files larger than 4GB.

Considering that he is joining clips into a larger file with tsMuxer, this is not a FAT issue on his computer.

There was a topic on on this forum... and its author actually made a batch file... here: http://avchdvideos.blogspot.com/p/jo...hd-videos.html
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post #56 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 04:34 PM
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Considering that he is joining clips into a larger file with tsMuxer, this is not a FAT issue on his computer.

There was a topic on on this forum... and its author actually made a batch file... here: http://avchdvideos.blogspot.com/p/jo...hd-videos.html

I see... So this is a limitation with HDWriter?
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post #57 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 04:53 PM
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I see... So this is a limitation with HDWriter?

No idea. I haven't used HDWriter to output large files.
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post #58 of 176 Old 12-19-2011, 05:11 PM
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Hey I seem to remember there is a setting to keep the files at 4GB size to be able to copy back to the camcorder for playback. I think you can turn that off so files sizes can be bigger. Will check tonight.
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post #59 of 176 Old 12-20-2011, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone who has the VW-VBK360 extended measure the depth of it for me (from the contacts side with the label to the back side)?
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post #60 of 176 Old 12-20-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

IA mode for indoors. 1080/60p for everything unless your video editing software requires you to use 1080/60i.

For outdoor recording I use manual mode. I select shutter speed of 120 and then set the iris to whatever setting makes the exposure look right, usually f5.6. The video looks brighter and more colorful if I do that.

You should also experiment with manual white balance if you are not fully satisfied with the colors you are getting in Auto WB as it can make the video even more bright and colorful. I've been using white paper towels to set manual WB outdoors, but I ordered an some white balance cards on ebay to see if they are even better.

SD90 - I will certainly try your method of setting to 1/120.

I also would recommend using manual control everywhere, this is one of the nicest feature of this camera. I used to have Canon HV20, and it has no manual control. What I noticed after I switched to TM90 that the camera doing adjustments while I am already shooting, and these adjustments are noticeable and very often simply irritating. WB can change back and forth, the exposure keeps changing all over (especially indoors), etc. While Canon did not allow any manual control, it also did not have these problem - maybe the camera did some adjustments during recording but they were very smooth and not noticeable whatsoever.

So I believe with TM90 you just have to set everything to manual, if you want your footage to look good. I usually set White Balance manually by point the camera to something white, then I use manual shutter and exposure mainly just to lock them. For indoors I use 1/60 for the shutter, and lock the aperture. For outdoors it's the opposite - I set the aperture to be somewhere around f4-f5.6, and the shutter is locked at something usually much faster than 1/60. I noticed that if I lock the shutter at 1/60 while outdoors and it is very sunny, the footage is really very grainy. I should give a try to 1/120.
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